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Cops: No Snarky Nor Positive Title

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Handyman said:
You may not think he is sincere...but (and I hate you are making me do this) again he isn't wrong. This is not data in a spreadsheet man these are people and you are about to destroy their community to prove a point you actually won't prove. This is not the situation for a punitive action...most of the people of that city aren't fans of the cops and support BLM and want justice in this case.

This is not an affluent community...this is not one of the upper crust burbs.
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You need to think of yourself as the ACLU. You can't always like who you are defending.
 
Handyman said:
You may not think he is sincere...but (and I hate you are making me do this) again he isn't wrong. This is not data in a spreadsheet man these are people and you are about to destroy their community to prove a point you actually won't prove. This is not the situation for a punitive action...most of the people of that city aren't fans of the cops and support BLM and want justice in this case.

This is not an affluent community...this is not one of the upper crust burbs.
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Yeah, Brooklyn Center won’t make a lot people’s top vacation spots list. The rich people in that city are blue collar, and too many of them can’t afford an actual collar.
 
Kepler said:
I want every tax payer in every city and state with an uncontrolled police force to be paying 100% of their taxes to legal penalties until they finally learn and stop voting for Nazis.
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Except in many of the cities (in fact MOST of the cities) people are not voting for Nazis. You think the people in Minneapolis voted for Nazis? Or Chicago? Or almost any big city with an out of control police force (which really, is every big city)? Even in the red states the cities are often still Democratic party strongholds.

The problem is no one in positions of power wants to admit how far gone law enforcement in this country really is. If the Jacob Fry (mayor or Minneapolis) told the truth about his police department, he'd be crucified. The entire system of policing in this country is broken, and we literally need to start over. And that is never going to happen. The best we can hope for is for more successful prosecutions of cops like we saw in Minneapolis. Once enough of them start going to prison, we will see fewer incidents of people being shot or killed simply because they are not white. Unfortunately a lot more people who are not white are going to die needlessly and unjustly until then.
 
SJHovey said:
Hey, sorry that I didn't solve the complex matrix of city/police/public race and civil liability issues while skimming through posts on a message board. Double sorry for suggesting that Kepler's "sue them into submission" policy might be met with mixed reviews with the defendants are Black communities.
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Right NOW, suing them into submission is likely the only way to REALLY force a change, as there would be no way to cover a second time. While there is issues with suing them, not doing anything is worse- people die.

The state will be forced to bail them out, which gives the state some serious reasons to change.

Unless you honestly think that they should do nothing at all, since the current best option is limited....
 
Handyman said:
You may not think he is sincere...but (and I hate you are making me do this) again he isn't wrong. This is not data in a spreadsheet man these are people and you are about to destroy their community to prove a point you actually won't prove. This is not the situation for a punitive action...most of the people of that city aren't fans of the cops and support BLM and want justice in this case.

This is not an affluent community...this is not one of the upper crust burbs.
Click to expand...

What other option, at this point, is there? Really. Having a bad police system bankrupt a town would be a pretty effective way to force them to change.

Even if the cops go to jail, would that change policy? Would that change the training? Would that change how people are recruited to be cops? Would it replace cops with social workers in more appropriate situations?

Getting justice for one cop is great. Making it not happen again is the real goal.
 
SJHovey said:
You need to think of yourself as the ACLU. You can't always like who you are defending.
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I give them money for a reason ;^)

I defend people's rights to say stuff and think stuff...I also defend people's rights to mock others for saying stupid stuff ;^)

I get what Kepler is saying, the problem is he has an outside perspective and I have an up close one. To him it is academic, to me it hits a community I know all too well who don't deserve it. If it was a more racist area filled with Rich Whitey's I would be more towards his side of the argument. The POC in BC don't deserve the outcome that would happen if BC goes bankrupt.
 
MichVandal said:
What other option, at this point, is there? Really. Having a bad police system bankrupt a town would be a pretty effective way to force them to change.

Even if the cops go to jail, would that change policy? Would that change the training? Would that change how people are recruited to be cops? Would it replace cops with social workers in more appropriate situations?

Getting justice for one cop is great. Making it not happen again is the real goal.
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So your idea for justice for Black Communities is to destroy a Black Community? Do you see the logic flaw there?

You aren't going to reform the cops that way. Has it worked anywhere? They aren't going to pay for this so what do they care? Do you the the BCPD is going to change because they got bad press and the city paid out a huge fine?

Do you really think you would support this if it was your town that was about to lose everything?
 
Handyman said:
So your idea for justice for Black Communities is to destroy a Black Community? Do you see the logic flaw there?

You aren't going to reform the cops that way. Has it worked anywhere? They aren't going to pay for this so what do they care? Do you the the BCPD is going to change because they got bad press and the city paid out a huge fine?

Do you really think you would support this if it was your town that was about to lose everything?
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I wonder what the city could de-fund to help pay for the settlement...
 
Handyman said:
So your idea for justice for Black Communities is to destroy a Black Community? Do you see the logic flaw there?

You aren't going to reform the cops that way. Has it worked anywhere? They aren't going to pay for this so what do they care? Do you the the BCPD is going to change because they got bad press and the city paid out a huge fine?

Do you really think you would support this if it was your town that was about to lose everything?
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Again, what is a good alternative???

Suing will drain the insurance fund, which will raise the insurance rates. Which will prompt the insurance company to tell them to not do that again, prompting changes in the policing system.

It's flawed, but it's also the best of the bad ideas right now.

Doing nothing changes nothing.
 
MichVandal said:
Again, what is a good alternative???

Suing will drain the insurance fund, which will raise the insurance rates. Which will prompt the insurance company to tell them to not do that again, prompting changes in the policing system.

It's flawed, but it's also the best of the bad ideas right now.

Doing nothing changes nothing.
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Its just a few bad apples. The department leadership and fellow officers will make sure they get weeded out.
 
According to the demo data I pulled up, even “black” Brooklyn Center is 45% white and only 29% black. Somehow I just have a sneaking suspicion that the value of properties held by white people far exceeds their share. So even there, a major lien on city finances would cut the white folks there significantly harder than the black folks.
 
What a shock, cops aren't entirely thrilled with getting a covid vaccination.

In case a paywall blocks you, the gist of the article is the low vaccination rate among police officers throughout the country, despite the fact cops (and other first responder types) were often at the front of the line for the vaccine and have had it available for at least 3 or 4 months now. Some departments have done better than others, and some have done quite well, but many have not.

The article offers a stab at some potential explanations as to what is behind the low rates among cops. What pisses me off about it is how it completely avoids the one reason why we ALL know this is true: Cops are trump-loving extreme far-right conservatives and that is a demographic that has long denied the seriousness of the pandemic and the usefulness of a vaccination. This despite the fact that since the beginning of the pandemic, COVID-19 has killed more cops than all other causes combined.

Remember this the next time you interact with a maskless cop, there is a very good chance he (probably he, women are less reluctant to get vaccinated and most cops are male) has chosen to go un-vaccinated. If you're white, make it clear you want them to keep their distance. If you're not white, good luck with the encounter. You probably won't get shot, but that chance increases exponentially if you choose to exercise any of your constitutional or human rights. Good luck to you.
 
Kepler said:
Conservative
Low education
Low intelligence

Hardly surprising.

c.f professional athletes, priests, marines, radio talk show hosts.
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While a piece of paper proves little (and does not mean one is truly "educated"), you might be shocked to know that the percentage of American cops with a B.S. or B.A. is only slightly less than that of the general public. Which might be surprising considering few departments require a B.S. or B.A. In fact hardly any require even a 2-year degree, approximately 10%.
 
WeAreNDHockey said:
While a piece of paper proves little (and does not mean one is truly "educated"), you might be shocked to know that the percentage of American cops with a B.S. or B.A. is only slightly less than that of the general public. Which might be surprising considering few departments require a B.S. or B.A. In fact hardly any require even a 2-year degree, approximately 10%.
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Whaddya call the kid who graduates last from high school?

"Officer."
 
White cop shoots black man in the back, is fired and charged with murder, but after a review, gets reinstated to his job...

There's more to this story of course. The Atlanta officer is being returned to his job because a review board determined his employer did not follow the procedures necessary in terminating an employee, not that the officer's actions did not warrent discipline. Basically a technicalilty, with the review board determining the officer's right to respond effectively was negated. He was fired very quickly, if I recall. It may have been less than 24 hours after the shooting.

There are certain due process rules that apply to firing a public sector employee and in this case I would be willing to bet they were not followed. I have made and won that argument a number of times and gotten members of mine reinstated. Now we have to wait and see what might happen with a proper review. The officer will still be on administrative leave, as his bond prevents him from carrying a weapon, so even with this ruling he won't be shooting anyone else while on duty for a while at least.
 
WeAreNDHockey said:
White cop shoots black man in the back, is fired and charged with murder, but after a review, gets reinstated to his job...

There's more to this story of course. The Atlanta officer is being returned to his job because a review board determined his employer did not follow the procedures necessary in terminating an employee, not that the officer's actions did not warrent discipline. Basically a technicalilty, with the review board determining the officer's right to respond effectively was negated. He was fired very quickly, if I recall. It may have been less than 24 hours after the shooting.

There are certain due process rules that apply to firing a public sector employee and in this case I would be willing to bet they were not followed. I have made and won that argument a number of times and gotten members of mine reinstated. Now we have to wait and see what might happen with a proper review. The officer will still be on administrative leave, as his bond prevents him from carrying a weapon, so even with this ruling he won't be shooting anyone else while on duty for a while at least.
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This sounds like a dumb, sloppy administrative problem. Not a good look though, as the headlines are easy to write - "Cop that shot unarmed black man re-instated".
 
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