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Cops: No Snarky Nor Positive Title

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SJHovey said:
. Why escalate the situation when they have a gun and the right to use it, and you don't?

You almost never see one of these cases (I can't think of any) where the driver literally follows every single instruction of the cop, and then the cop shoots him. It just doesn't happen. There is always an argument, there is always an attempt to jump back in the car, or to grab something out of the car, or something.
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The cops don't have an unfettered right to use the gun. Part of the problem is people, including the cops themselves, thinking they do, and then every cop knob licker justifying it after the fact as though a speeding ticket or mouthing off deserves a death sentence.

And comeon, really? Tamir Rice, the Cleveland kid who was shot without the cops even giving him a chance to comply with anything because they just drove up over the curb and blew him away. Or the guy (I think also in Minnesota) who was a passenger, told the cop he had a gun (as I've been told on this board that all responsible gun owners should do) and was then shot by a jumpy cop when he reached for his ID as instructed? Or the guy in Alabama who was at a gas station, was told to get his id, and when he turned to his car to get it ended up with a bullet in his bum courtesy of the same cop who just asked him for his id?

The common factor in all of those was the victim's race and gender. And those are just off the top of my head without having to think.

Bullshit that lack of compliance is the cause of this.
 
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Hovey is basically saying when you get mugged just give the guy your wallet, don't risk getting shot. And in that he is correct. Assuming we view cops as muggers then the rational behavior is to give them what they want.

Were I black I would view every white person as potentially insane and lethal and backed by the law.
 
unofan said:
. Or the guy (I think also in Minnesota) who was a passenger, told the cop he had a gun (as I've been told on this board that all responsible gun owners should do) and was then shot by a jumpy cop when he reached for his ID as instructed
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Philando Castile. He had a conceal and carry permit, told the officers, and then did as he was told.
 
unofan said:
The cops don't have an unfettered right to use the gun. Part of the problem is people, including the cops themselves, thinking they do, and then every cop knob licker justifying it after the fact as though a speeding ticket or mouthing off deserves a death sentence.

And comeon, really? Tamir Rice, the Cleveland kid who was shot without the cops even giving him a chance to comply with anything because they just drove up over the curb and blew him away. Or the guy (I think also in Minnesota) who was a passenger, told the cop he had a gun (as I've been told on this board that all responsible gun owners should do) and was then shot by a jumpy cop when he reached for his ID as instructed? Or the guy in Alabama who was at a gas station, was told to get his id, and when he turned to his car to get it ended up with a bullet in his bum courtesy of the same cop who just asked him for his id?

The common factor in all of those was the victim's race and gender. And those are just off the top of my head without having to think.

Bull**** that lack of compliance is the cause of this.
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I don't know the facts of the Cleveland or Alabama incidents, but the one in Minnesota (he was the driver) was specifically told to not reach for anything after he said he had a gun, but he did anyway.
 
SJHovey said:
I don't know the facts of the Cleveland or Alabama incidents, but the one in Minnesota (he was the driver) was specifically told to not reach for anything after he said he had a gun, but he did anyway.
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Philando Castile was the passenger, his girlfriend was the driver. He was reaching for his wallet, as instructed, after telling the officers that his gun was in the glove compartment. The whole interaction was recorded.
 
Kepler said:
Hovey is basically saying when you get mugged just give the guy your wallet, don't risk getting shot. And in that he is correct. Assuming we view cops as muggers then the rational behavior is to give them what they want.
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This.

Best advice my father ever gave me is assume every cop is having a bad day so make your goal to limit the interaction to as short as possible by being polite and compliant.
 
SJHovey said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Y_yOm9IhA
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I interpret this as him (the officer) asking for his license and registration, then telling him to not reach for it (the gun) or pull it (the gun) out after he's told him he has one. If it were me and I was already reaching for my wallet as I was previously told to do, I wouldn't be thinking that the cops demands above were telling me to stop. Just that I shouldn't get my gun.
 
state of hockey said:
I interpret this as him (the officer) asking for his license and registration, then telling him to not reach for it (the gun) or pull it (the gun) out after he's told him he has one. If it were me and I was already reaching for my wallet as I was previously told to do, I wouldn't be thinking that the cops demands above were telling me to stop. Just that I shouldn't get my gun.
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I posted the link because first, I was pretty sure I was correct that he was the driver, not the passenger. Second, i was pretty sure the officer had instructed him to not reach for the gun. Both of those were borne out on the video.
 
I think she will plea out and get something somewhat justified. She isn't Chauvin, she obviously feels contrition for what happened.

Kepler,

I admit I havent watched much of the trial but the odds are not in Chauvin's favor on this one. Even the "expert" the defense called yesterday really didn't amount to much. Justifying Chauvin's restraint was a nice tactic by the defense but their witness even said he couldn't tell if Floyd was struggling or just trying to breathe.

If I am wrong though...well last year will seem like a campus bonfire.
 
SJHovey said:
I posted the link because first, I was pretty sure I was correct that he was the driver, not the passenger. Second, i was pretty sure the officer had instructed him to not reach for the gun. Both of those were borne out on the video.
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Fair, and I'm not really trying to start up that debate again.

I remember thinking he was the passenger for a while back when it happened. I think it is because some of the first copies of the video taken by the girlfriend were mirrored.
 
unofan said:
And comeon, really? Tamir Rice, the Cleveland kid who was shot without the cops even giving him a chance to comply with anything because they just drove up over the curb and blew him away. Or the guy (I think also in Minnesota) who was a passenger, told the cop he had a gun (as I've been told on this board that all responsible gun owners should do) and was then shot by a jumpy cop when he reached for his ID as instructed? Or the guy in Alabama who was at a gas station, was told to get his id, and when he turned to his car to get it ended up with a bullet in his bum courtesy of the same cop who just asked him for his id?

The common factor in all of those was the victim's race and gender. And those are just off the top of my head without having to think.

Bull**** that lack of compliance is the cause of this.
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And don't forget the cop who shot Tamir Rice had been forced to resign from a suburban police department some months before because he could not properly qualify with his firearm and his chief did not think he had the mental wherewithal to be a cop. Resign or be fired. He quit and Cleveland hired him without even speaking with his previous employer.

As for telling the cops you're carrying, I live in a state where you are NOT required to tell them you have firearm concealed if you are a concealed carry license holder and unless the weapon was where I expected the cop to see it (if I was stupidly storing it in the glove compartment and I needed to open that to produce my registration or proof of insurance) I would NOT volunteer the information. And I'm a middle aged white guy.
 
If the standard is "assume every cop is having a bad day" then again, the problem is the cops not us. We shouldn't have to worry that we are gonna get beat up, harassed or shot just because we happened to go 10 miles over the speed limit and a cop's wife is banging his best friend. That isn't how this works...

Of course, none of us has to actually worry about that only certain people do. Even well known famous Black People have to deal with the type of harassment...meanwhile a random youtube search will show you plenty of White People being non-compliant and their life is never in danger.

And Hovey, you may be right that most of the time something the driver does leads to escalation, but you need only look at the Black Army Officer in Maryland who was pulled over (wrongfully) and had his hands outside of the car the whole time to see that compliance doesn't stop any of this. I bet if we go back in this very thread we can find videos many of us posted where guns are drawn BEFORE the interaction even starts.

The problem is we have been conditioned for decades to associate Black Men with crime. (or just anything Black...think about old Westerns) Black thugs are gonna loot and riot (ask Faux and their brain dead viewers) and no White Suburban Woman is safe from the Big Bad Black Rapist! They are on drugs, they are in gangs...its ridiculous. Some of the "wokest" people I know admit they have a weird subconscious fear even now and they constantly have to call themselves out for it. It is prevalent and it is ubiquitous. It is why Liberal Karens call the cops when a Black Man is near them in a park and why Conservative Karen's call them because they walk through their neighborhood. It is why George Floyd's death is justified by many cause he did opiods but no one seems to be murdering all the opiod addicts that exist in every town in America. It isn't hard to see, and it isn't just something that exists here, we just do it over color instead of religion or country of origin like the rest of the world does. (Europe does all of them!)

Look, do I think every cop goes out and joins the force to beat and murder the N***ers...of course not. Do I think most of them even truly hate Black People...no. But it doesn't matter whether they outwardly do or not the actions they and their brethren take are in fact racist. And the problem is no one is watching the watchmen. The system is rigged to the point that even good measures that get put in place get abused. People went crazy because cops testified against Chauvin because cops almost never police their own. They would rather defend a racist (or elect them union president) then actually do the right thing. God forbid you be called a rat...its like the friggin mob.

Until that changes, none of this will.
 
state of hockey said:
Fair, and I'm not really trying to start up that debate again.

I remember thinking he was the passenger for a while back when it happened. I think it is because some of the first copies of the video taken by the girlfriend were mirrored.
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I think that is exactly right. I forgot about her livestream and the orientation confusion I experienced when seeing it for the first time.
 
unofan said:
Farking pizza delivery drivers are more likely to get shot than a cop. Yet they don't go to every stop with one hand on a gun or shoot people who open the door too quickly and startle them.
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58% of police killings began with non-violent offences. (Actually, at least 58%. 71 were unknown.)

Ey1G4esXAAE54ZG
 
To lighten the mood a bit last night Greg Gutfield on Faux posted on Twitter about his upcoming show which I guess is Faux's answer to Late Night. He had some lame Trump humpers and some D-level WWE guy (who I guess was Black) scheduled to talk about the riots and some such nonsense. The show got pulled for updates on the riots and it was fun to watch on Twitter. 90% of it was people mocking him for being "cancelled" by his own network Lou Dobbs style and his few "fans" whining cause Faux chose to show actual news instead of his bad attempts at humor. Made me smile :^)
 
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