Antiwork

[MichVandal]

They're cutting out sick time at work and going to PTO

*** holes

Do you at least get to accumulate it?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Do you at least get to accumulate it?

Nope. The worst part is, they're lying and saying this is because of the Minnesota sick leave law. What a bunch coward fucks.

I don't know how people who write shit like "we know you like using vacation so we're giving you more options on how to use it" live with themselves. Get hit by a bus.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

They're cutting out sick time at work and going to PTO

*** holes

Is 3M some time warp lol? Sick time? What is that. I’ve literally never had a job where it wasn’t all pto

what’s next, those new fangled health plans that have super high deductible but allow you to have HSA?

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Nope. The worst part is, they're lying and saying this is because of the Minnesota sick leave law. What a bunch coward ****s.

I don't know how people who write **** like "we know you like using vacation so we're giving you more options on how to use it" live with themselves. Get hit by a bus.

They live with themselves quite cozily with bonuses and more bonuses

 

[ScoobyDoo]

They're cutting out sick time at work and going to PTO

*** holes

Surprised they held out that long. I have unlimited PTO which means that I cannot accumulate and cash out on vacation. Which was the old model.

 

[dxmnkd316]

It was one of the reasons I stuck around.

 

[SJHovey]

Nope. The worst part is, they're lying and saying this is because of the Minnesota sick leave law. What a bunch coward ****s.

I don't know how people who write **** like "we know you like using vacation so we're giving you more options on how to use it" live with themselves. Get hit by a bus.

It is most certainly due to the new Minnesota leave law.

On January 1 Minnesota's new Sick and Safe Time leave law goes into effect. It is very broad in terms of its scope, certainly far broader than most standard sick leave policies (to the extent employers even still use them).

It is broad in terms of the incidents that trigger your right to time off. Not only is it your illness, but it's for the illnesses of an extremely broad array of related and unrelated people, including the right to annually designate some random person. So if you decide to nominate your neighbor Bob for this year, and Bob gets sick, you can take your paid sick and safe time leave.

It covers time off for illnesses, but also because of criminal justice events you might have to participate in, for road closures due to weather, etc... Certainly way broader than 3M's current sick leave policy.

You also get to carry some over.

But here's the deal with it. The law also says that if the employer has a paid time off policy in place that allows employees to be absent for all of the things that Sick and Safe time mandates, you can just use your PTO policy.

The last thing an employer wants to do is have a sick leave policy, a sick and safe time policy, a vacation policy, etc... Just roll it into one grouping and call it PTO.

We did this maybe 20 years ago, and our employees had the same initial reaction you did. If you asked them today, they'd never go back.

I don't care why my employees are going to be gone. I'm not interested in making them come up with an excuse, and they're not interested in coming up with an excuse. Just tell me you're going to be gone, and when, and tell me as soon as practicable. That's what employers want.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Surprised they held out that long. I have unlimited PTO which means that I cannot accumulate and cash out on vacation. Which was the old model.

Yeah Minnesota law doesn’t mandate pto oayoit like California and a few other states do. In my recent layoff I received 40 hours of pto payout due to carrying it over from prior year. My first company did pay out all my pto years ago when I quit, even though they weren’t mad dated by law

 

[unofan]

That's what employers want.

Yeah, because it saves them money at their employees' expense. If nothing else, because they no longer have to pay out unused vacation time. In the longer run, because they can claim "unlimited PTO" while discouraging is actual use, leading to people taking less time off because the employer will claim any usage is abuse

 

[Proud2baLaker]

My company switched to a PTO model when we got bought in 2020. Thankfully though we do accrue to a limit based on tenure and they will pay out unused if you leave. And you can carry over a portion from year-to-year. It actually seems to be better than what we used to have with the old company. Is actually resulting in more potential time off whether its vacation or sick time than the old company allowed. And you can accrue more days with less tenure than the old company allowed. But it sounds like we got a good deal on that based on what others are experiencing.

 

[SJHovey]

Yeah, because it saves them money at their employees' expense. If nothing else, because they no longer have to pay out unused vacation time. In the longer run, because they can claim "unlimited PTO" while discouraging is actual use, leading to people taking less time off because the employer will claim any usage is abuse

First, in Minnesota employers have never had to pay out unused vacation time, unless it's their policy or practice to do so. Having a PTO policy that doesn't require a payout doesn't change anything for employers.

Second, the new Sick and Safe time paid leave law doesn't require payout of that either upon separation. So, rolling it into a general PTO policy doesn't save the employers anything.

Third, if you are an employee, wouldn't you rather have it all rolled into PTO, that you can use for any reason, rather than having say six days of it allocated for instances only where you are sick, or a family member is sick or a family member is in court for a domestic violence issue? Even as broad as the SST law permits usage?

If someone has to go home and care for their child who is sick, it's not like 3M can deny that. Their PTO policy has to be at least as generous as the SST leave mandated by law. How does rolling into a general classification of PTO hurt dx?

 

[dxmnkd316]

First, in Minnesota employers have never had to pay out unused vacation time, unless it's their policy or practice to do so. Having a PTO policy that doesn't require a payout doesn't change anything for employers.

Second, the new Sick and Safe time paid leave law doesn't require payout of that either upon separation. So, rolling it into a general PTO policy doesn't save the employers anything.

Third, if you are an employee, wouldn't you rather have it all rolled into PTO, that you can use for any reason, rather than having say six days of it allocated for instances only where you are sick, or a family member is sick or a family member is in court for a domestic violence issue? Even as broad as the SST law permits usage?

If someone has to go home and care for their child who is sick, it's not like 3M can deny that. Their PTO policy has to be at least as generous as the SST leave mandated by law. How does rolling into a general classification of PTO hurt dx?

it hurts because we don't lose vacation for being sick. It's absolutely baffling how you don't understand this. I had effectively unlimited sick time prior to this. Now we have to use vacation. We don't get any additional vacation.

 

[dxmnkd316]

It is most certainly due to the new Minnesota leave law.

On January 1 Minnesota's new Sick and Safe Time leave law goes into effect. It is very broad in terms of its scope, certainly far broader than most standard sick leave policies (to the extent employers even still use them).

It is broad in terms of the incidents that trigger your right to time off. Not only is it your illness, but it's for the illnesses of an extremely broad array of related and unrelated people, including the right to annually designate some random person. So if you decide to nominate your neighbor Bob for this year, and Bob gets sick, you can take your paid sick and safe time leave.

It covers time off for illnesses, but also because of criminal justice events you might have to participate in, for road closures due to weather, etc... Certainly way broader than 3M's current sick leave policy.

You also get to carry some over.

But here's the deal with it. The law also says that if the employer has a paid time off policy in place that allows employees to be absent for all of the things that Sick and Safe time mandates, you can just use your PTO policy.

The last thing an employer wants to do is have a sick leave policy, a sick and safe time policy, a vacation policy, etc... Just roll it into one grouping and call it PTO.

We did this maybe 20 years ago, and our employees had the same initial reaction you did. If you asked them today, they'd never go back.

I don't care why my employees are going to be gone. I'm not interested in making them come up with an excuse, and they're not interested in coming up with an excuse. Just tell me you're going to be gone, and when, and tell me as soon as practicable. That's what employers want.

Wrong on several accounts

it is NOT because of the law. The law does not say you can't offer sick time in addition to vacation. It simply set the minimum standard and the company regressed to that.

second, no, we don't get carryover. Only hourly workers are provided that

third, employers want PTO because then they don't need to pay vacation at 100%. It's now the time worker who has to either work sick or sacrifice vacation.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Oh and I'm much rather have my coworkers not have to make the decision to use vacation or come in sick. Because they would necessarily be using my vacation time now by coming to work sick. it spreads the colds around the office and eventually I will get sick and need to use vacation.

 

[SJHovey]

it hurts because we don't lose vacation for being sick. It's absolutely baffling how you don't understand this. I had effectively unlimited sick time prior to this. Now we have to use vacation. We don't get any additional vacation.

So you had unlimited paid sick time at 3M? You could just call in sick for the next three years and they'd pay you your salary or wage?

 

[dxmnkd316]

it hurts because we don't lose vacation for being sick. It's absolutely baffling how you don't understand this. I had effectively unlimited sick time prior to this. Now we have to use vacation. We don't get any additional vacation.

.

 

[unofan]

So you had unlimited paid sick time at 3M? You could just call in sick for the next three years and they'd pay you your salary or wage?

By the time I left my government job I had something like 500 hours of accumulated sick time saved up. Was a nice rainy day fund in case I ever got a long term illness/ car wreck/ whatever. No longer had to worry about taking unpaid FMLA time since that would cover the whole 12 weeks if needed. Thankfully I never ended up needing to use it. For retirees, they get to use their unused sick time balance to cover health insurance in retirement until they become Medicare eligible.

Got paid out for roughly 3 weeks of vacation when I left, too. Max accumulation of that was 2x annual accrual, which at that point I was getting 4.5 weeks of vacation per year, so in theory I could've saved up to nine weeks before i hit the use it or lose it point. That was never going to happen with me, though.

Yeah, that's a government scenario, not a private one, but it's been borne out repeatedly that a switch from sick/vacation leave to a single PTO benefits employers more than employees in the aggregate.

Next you'll try to tell us that the move from pensions to 401ks was a win for employees, too.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

By the time I left my government job I had something like 500 hours of accumulated sick time saved up. Was a nice rainy day fund in case I ever got a long term illness/ car wreck/ whatever. No longer had to worry about taking unpaid FMLA time since that would cover the whole 12 weeks if needed. Thankfully I never ended up needing to use it. For retirees, they get to use their unused sick time balance to cover health insurance in retirement until they become Medicare eligible.

Got paid out for roughly 3 weeks of vacation when I left, too. Max accumulation of that was 2x annual accrual, which at that point I was getting 4.5 weeks of vacation per year, so in theory I could've saved up to nine weeks before i hit the use it or lose it point. That was never going to happen with me, though.

Yeah, that's a government scenario, not a private one, but it's been borne out repeatedly that a switch from sick/vacation leave to a single PTO benefits employers more than employees in the aggregate.

Next you'll try to tell us that the move from pensions to 401ks was a win for employees, too.

Same deal for my job. Sick leave can accumulate indefinitely, can be used for health insurance after retirement. Also felt good to have enough to get me through the disability waiting period (hopefully never have to use that!). Vacation time is separate and can only roll over 1 year worth of vacation hours.

 

[Swansong]

I have one bucket and it carries over, and is used for everything from sick time to vacation to holiday. My new parent company is overhauling everything and my net change is to lose about 8 hours of PTO per year, and my max bank amount goes from north of 500 hours to just under 400. If I do go over the banked amount, it dumps into a short-term disability pool. Also, two days worth of my new time isn't accrued, but in the form of use-it-or-lose-it floater days.

Overall, my math is this:

- Net loss of 8 hours per year
- 16 hours become floater days and do not accrue or carry over, no payout for them when leaving
- over max bank time moves to short term disability pool, which does not payout when leaving


My smaller hospital didn't pay well but was very generous with time off. New parent company (now that I'm part of the shared services) pays much better but time off is a good bit less. I have almost 400 hours available right now so I'll already by right up against my max banked time. They've said they plan to pay out overages up front, but I don't know how that will work. Like, if my max is 400 hours and I'm at 440, will they pay me 40 hours and then I'm immediately dumping into the st pool? Or will they pay me 80 hours and give me a chance to stay under? Unclear.

 

[Slap Shot]

One positive of working outside the US:

-I earn 20 hours per month of PTO that can be used for any valid absence type
-We earn an additonal 8 more hours for any day in which we work on a local federal holiday that can also be used like PTO
-Unused hours up to 160 are paid back as taxable income every February
-Mat leave is paid 105 days, PAT leave is paid 7 days
-3 paid days of bereavement for immediate family members that does not come out of PTO

Wife still wants to move back.