The GQP Thread: I'm even sick of that fuck's number and, anyway, he's gone (for now)

[Handyman]

Centrists like you who whine about Leftists and Leftists like me who whine about Centrists are doing the fascists' work for them. We both need to shut our little b-tch mouths and just work together.

Democrats need the Radical Left -- we are the heart, energy, and conscience of the party. And Democrats need the Centrists -- they are the money, the insider power, and the non-scary public face of the party. Neither side is more important; neither side's desires or needs are more important. The party should serve them both, and the two sides should respect one another.

So stop b-tching and I'll stop b-tching, and we'll get drunk and dance on the graves of the fascists. When the last capitalist is strangled with the entrails of the last fundamentalist, we can fight to the death in our Utopia of Sanity. Until then, thou shalt not criticize a fellow Democrat.

I don't like the Centrists and rather they left the fucking party. (The Centrists are why I wasn't a Dem for YEARS) Centrists are why Biden is getting screwed over and I didn't fight so the Centrists could light the match that burned the country to the ground. Its one thing when you and me go back and forth because I assume you are smart enough to know that while I may be to the Right of you so is AOC which is why we have fun with our t?te-?-t?te. The world would be a much better place if I was the Center of American Politics.

The problem is that the more the Twitter Mob insults and tears down everyone, the more power the fucking Centrists get because no one wants to support the policies of the people who hate them even when they are on their side. That is just bad politics. Someone calling me racist because I want White Racist Fascists in jail is not the way to go about it. (especially since I was responding how much I appreciated his insight when I got that tweet)

To win the Dems need to do what they were put in office to do. To do that they need to ignore the fringes and just pass fucking policy. And they need to kneecap fucking Joe Manchin cause as Bronco said fuck that guy.

And when the Fascists lose I am buying :^)

edit: apparently the board hates French :^p

 

[dxmnkd316]

For being such a smart guy, your obsession with manchin is just so bizarre. You shoot him and you lose. Across the board. There is no positive that comes out of it. You still don't get your bills passed, McConnell still takes the senate, and centrists still hold onto the power. The left can't win a goddamn election outside the most liberal places in America. Until that problem is solved, you and trix can whine and bitch about the centrists and watch your policies get used as coasters in the Republican cloakroom.

"oh but that's because the liberals never get a chance" or "the centrists ruin our bills"
boo fucking boo. Organize. Win elections. Gain power. Until then, learn to play the game with the the cards you have.

 

[Slap Shot]

Democrats need the Radical Left -- we are the heart, energy, and conscience of the party.

Bullshit. The Radical left are just as big of a problem as the centrists and they need to shut the fuck up. I am tired of the woke posse demanding like children everything go their way or they'll have another tantrum. The world does not revolve around them. They need to grow up and join the real world.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

LOL. The Overton Window has moved so far right we don't even know what center is anymore. Manchin is NOT center. He just isn't. Calling him that is a disservice to America.

 

[aparch]

LOL. The Overton Window has moved so far right we don't even know what center is anymore. Manchin is NOT center. He just isn't. Calling him that is a disservice to America.

 

[Handyman]

For being such a smart guy, your obsession with manchin is just so bizarre. You shoot him and you lose. Across the board. There is no positive that comes out of it. You still don't get your bills passed, McConnell still takes the senate, and centrists still hold onto the power. The left can't win a goddamn election outside the most liberal places in America. Until that problem is solved, you and trix can whine and ***** about the centrists and watch your policies get used as coasters in the Republican cloakroom.

"oh but that's because the liberals never get a chance" or "the centrists ruin our bills"
boo fucking boo. Organize. Win elections. Gain power. Until then, learn to play the game with the the cards you have.

And for being such a smart guy you don't seem to get what people are saying when they say kneecap Manchin. You also don't seem to get that we are fighting for the country at this point, not some lame ass committee leadership that has literally lead to zilch. If 2022/24 go sideways it isn't going to be because of anything other than the Democrats ended up not getting anything done.

This is not normal times.

This also isn't about Far Left vs. Centrist (which is the other argument) this is about getting crap done. Manchin and Sinema are all but guaranteeing Biden is a one term President and it is time for Leadership to put the boot to them. Treating them with kid gloves and placating their Anti-Democratic (the party not the political philosophy) actions is exactly why Democrats never win despite having the right ideas. That is all of them whether Far Left or Centrist. (remember I am ripping people I support for screwing around with the Bipartisan Deal because while not perfect it is needed) Do you really think if Ted Cruz was holding up the GOP Agenda in a 50/50 Senate they would hold his hand and and make nice with him? Do you really believe that McConnell would risk his agenda crapping the bed having heart to heart chats? He would be burying him in negative press and forcing the issue every time Ted Cruz opened his fat face...we know cause he has done it in the past when Ted and the Fredumbers did it. Not the Dems though...oh no we need to rub Manchin's shoulders and bring him hot tea and cookies even while he is destroying every element of what the Democrats (Centrist and Progressive) fought and campaigned on. Republicans govern like they have a mandate, Democrats govern like they are the minority.

At this point Voting Rights is dead, Infrastructure (both Bipartisan and Reconciliation) is on life support at best, Immigration Reform is a non-starter, Medicare Expansion or beefing up ObamaCare isn't discussed, Police Reform already died, Criminal Justice Reform has zero chance and legit raise in the Minimum Wage will never happen. Biden's numbers are in the friggin toilet because that is the stuff he campaigned on. But hey we got the committee appointments! America is truly safe...

My wanting to purge the Centrists is not a practical action, that is a personal belief and has nothing to do with my wanting to kneecap Manchin. As Kepler said (and as I have said dozens of times) the goal is winning and we need both. Hell you basically quoted me in the last fight I had with Kepler on this (and every fight I had with trix on this) in saying the AOC Wing of the Party may be where I vote but they have no idea how to lead a party because they don't get winning needs to happen first. You don't win insulting the majority of the country including half your own party. You don't win holding up legislation that the people support because you want something bigger and better that can't pass on its own. (in part thanks to Manchin) You pass what you can and keep fighting for more. But why is it ok to rip them (in a slim majority House) but we have to fucking get on our knees and swallow for Manchin? Because he identifies as a Democrat from a Red State? He may identify as one but he is voting as a Republican. He is blocking our agenda and giving them an easy road back to power. If the Dems aren't allowed to go after him for that then what is the point of any of this anyways? Even if we fill every judicial vacancy before the flip it won't make a difference. The whole point of having a Whip is to whip the votes and twist the arms and apply pressure. That is literally how things get done. (ask Pelosi) You and Dem Leadership want to pat little Joey on the head and say "that's ok buddy, its ok and not your fault" after he purposefully burned your house to the ground. The Dems need to quit being his Helicopter Parents and start showing him there are consequences to his actions or he will continue voting as a Republican.

 

[Handyman]

Bull****. The Radical left are just as big of a problem as the centrists and they need to shut the fuck up. I am tired of the woke posse demanding like children everything go their way or they'll have another tantrum. The world does not revolve around them. They need to grow up and join the real world.

100%.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

All you need to know about Manchin is the voting rights bill. He promised if he was involved with the bill (and he was, at least that one version) you would get a bill cause he KNOWS how to talk and convince Republicans. How many votes did he get from Republicans on his bill? The watered down bill. A bill that every single democrat voted for? None. Zero. Zip. Nada.

The fact that all of this reconciliation BS wasn't figured out around Sinema and Manchin ahead of time is what is wrong with the Democrats. This is a Schumer problem. Pelosi doesn't make this mistake. They should have went to them two ahead of time (June) and said what can we get. What will you support. Here's all the possible ideas.

And they should have taken it.

Fuck this bullshit we're going through now. Probably cost us Virginia at this point.

 

[sagard]

What truly amazes me is the Dems naivete in thinking they could do anything with a 50/50 senate. The Dems role in our society is to give us 4-8 year breaks from the insufferable McConnell / Trump agenda. What is scary is that Trump and his team must now realize they were simply Mitch's ******* last time and didn't get to do that much. If they beat Biden in '24 it is going to be four years of payback. Journalists will be jailed. At least a couple Dems in congress will be jailed. And half the country will be cheering them on.

But at least we will finally get rid of the filibuster.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

And manchin will still say we need bipartisan support

 

[dxmnkd316]

You also don't seem to get that we are fighting for the country at this point, not some lame *** committee leadership that has literally lead to zilch.

Hey, great. So what process are you going to use to get what you want?

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Something the republicans have learned well and have been doing for 40 years now is incremental change. It's why first George H.W. Bush became too liberal to be a republican and why now people like Reagan and Goldwater are too liberal (and maybe even too normal) to be republicans. They have moved this country's politics steadily rightward for decades now, so that republicans can paint a a dyed-in-the-wool slightly left of center guy like Biden (or Obama) as gushing blood from their bleeding heart liberals.

Democrats need to do the same thing, and they could have done it by finding legislation to pass. Of course it isn't everything we need. Hell, in the first couple of rounds it might not even do much at all, but at least we can show people a Democratic majority can lead. At this point it is our last hope, because if we fail now, America is over. 2 more elections and it's done. Get shit done now while we still can, because if democrats' failure to lead this time gives us a republican house in 2022 and trump again in 2024, the game is over. republicans won't need an insurrection to take over power and strip this country of 95% of what democratic principles it has left. We will have handed them the keys to the car.

 

[psych]

And for being such a smart guy you don't seem to get what people are saying when they say kneecap Manchin. You also don't seem to get that we are fighting for the country at this point, not some lame *** committee leadership that has literally lead to zilch. If 2022/24 go sideways it isn't going to be because of anything other than the Democrats ended up not getting anything done.

This is not normal times.

This also isn't about Far Left vs. Centrist (which is the other argument) this is about getting crap done. Manchin and Sinema are all but guaranteeing Biden is a one term President and it is time for Leadership to put the boot to them. Treating them with kid gloves and placating their Anti-Democratic (the party not the political philosophy) actions is exactly why Democrats never win despite having the right ideas. That is all of them whether Far Left or Centrist. (remember I am ripping people I support for screwing around with the Bipartisan Deal because while not perfect it is needed) Do you really think if Ted Cruz was holding up the GOP Agenda in a 50/50 Senate they would hold his hand and and make nice with him? Do you really believe that McConnell would risk his agenda crapping the bed having heart to heart chats? He would be burying him in negative press and forcing the issue every time Ted Cruz opened his fat face...we know cause he has done it in the past when Ted and the Fredumbers did it. Not the Dems though...oh no we need to rub Manchin's shoulders and bring him hot tea and cookies even while he is destroying every element of what the Democrats (Centrist and Progressive) fought and campaigned on. Republicans govern like they have a mandate, Democrats govern like they are the minority.

At this point Voting Rights is dead, Infrastructure (both Bipartisan and Reconciliation) is on life support at best, Immigration Reform is a non-starter, Medicare Expansion or beefing up ObamaCare isn't discussed, Police Reform already died, Criminal Justice Reform has zero chance and legit raise in the Minimum Wage will never happen. Biden's numbers are in the friggin toilet because that is the stuff he campaigned on. But hey we got the committee appointments! America is truly safe...

My wanting to purge the Centrists is not a practical action, that is a personal belief and has nothing to do with my wanting to kneecap Manchin. As Kepler said (and as I have said dozens of times) the goal is winning and we need both. Hell you basically quoted me in the last fight I had with Kepler on this (and every fight I had with trix on this) in saying the AOC Wing of the Party may be where I vote but they have no idea how to lead a party because they don't get winning needs to happen first. You don't win insulting the majority of the country including half your own party. You don't win holding up legislation that the people support because you want something bigger and better that can't pass on its own. (in part thanks to Manchin) You pass what you can and keep fighting for more. But why is it ok to rip them (in a slim majority House) but we have to fucking get on our knees and swallow for Manchin? Because he identifies as a Democrat from a Red State? He may identify as one but he is voting as a Republican. He is blocking our agenda and giving them an easy road back to power. If the Dems aren't allowed to go after him for that then what is the point of any of this anyways? Even if we fill every judicial vacancy before the flip it won't make a difference. The whole point of having a Whip is to whip the votes and twist the arms and apply pressure. That is literally how things get done. (ask Pelosi) You and Dem Leadership want to pat little Joey on the head and say "that's ok buddy, its ok and not your fault" after he purposefully burned your house to the ground. The Dems need to quit being his Helicopter Parents and start showing him there are consequences to his actions or he will continue voting as a Republican.

Manchin has all the power and he knows it. Bernie went after him. Manchin told him to go fuck himself. No amount of arm-twisting is going to make Manchin change his mind. National Democrats have no power over him. It behooves him to look like he’s a Republican in his state. You know this. Manchin fucking sucks, but he’s a symptom of the much larger problem: the anti-majoritarian lean of the Senate.
What did fivethirtyeight find, a 6-point tilt on average in the Senate towards the GOP that Democrats would have to overcome to maintain 50-50 in the Senate? Blue waves led to 50-50 in the Senate, and a 3-person majority in the House, that is 99.8% returning to the GOP after November ‘22, not least of which will be due in part to Republican gerrymandering from the statehouses they held or expanded upon during our 2020 “blue wave.” We’re fucking pis-ed at Manchin and Sinema because we as a party likely won’t have another shot at reconciliation bills that produce meaningful change until 2028 or later, which will easily be too late for the planet by then. It’s basically too late now.

 

[psych]

All you need to know about Manchin is the voting rights bill. He promised if he was involved with the bill (and he was, at least that one version) you would get a bill cause he KNOWS how to talk and convince Republicans. How many votes did he get from Republicans on his bill? The watered down bill. A bill that every single democrat voted for? None. Zero. Zip. Nada.

The fact that all of this reconciliation BS wasn't figured out around Sinema and Manchin ahead of time is what is wrong with the Democrats. This is a Schumer problem. Pelosi doesn't make this mistake. They should have went to them two ahead of time (June) and said what can we get. What will you support. Here's all the possible ideas.

And they should have taken it.

Fuck this bull**** we're going through now. Probably cost us Virginia at this point.

I love Nancy Pelosi, but she hasn’t been perfect in this either. If Democrats actually manage to pass the reconciliation and infrastructure bills at this point, I give credit to both Pelosi and Schumer for shepherding them through with the thinnest of majorities. Clearly, there’s a lot of daylight between Sanders/Manchin and Golden/Jayapal.
Also, Schumer did have a list of Manchin’s demands in July. It was that signed piece of paper that got leaked a few weeks ago that showed Manchin wanted $1.5 trillion all along.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Manchin has all the power and he knows it. Bernie went after him. Manchin told him to go fuck himself. No amount of arm-twisting is going to make Manchin change his mind. National Democrats have no power over him. It behooves him to look like he’s a Republican in his state. You know this. Manchin fucking sucks, but he’s a symptom of the much larger problem: the anti-majoritarian lean of the Senate.
What did fivethirtyeight find, a 6-point tilt on average in the Senate towards the GOP that Democrats would have to overcome to maintain 50-50 in the Senate? Blue waves led to 50-50 in the Senate, and a 3-person majority in the House, that is 99.8% returning to the GOP after November ‘22, not least of which will be due in part to Republican gerrymandering from the statehouses they held or expanded upon during our 2020 “blue wave.” We’re fucking pis-ed at Manchin and Sinema because we as a party likely won’t have another shot at reconciliation bills that produce meaningful change until 2028 or later, which will easily be too late for the planet by then. It’s basically too late now.

And that’s why I’m so pissed at those two. I put climate action higher than nearly everything else.

we’re so fucked. We’ll literally be in a situation in a few decades where the floods and fires and droughts are worse and republicans will be fine with drowning as long as they are clutching fistfuls of money and they prevented a brown person from eating

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Manchin has all the power and he knows it. Bernie went after him. Manchin told him to go fuck himself. No amount of arm-twisting is going to make Manchin change his mind. National Democrats have no power over him. It behooves him to look like he’s a Republican in his state. You know this. Manchin fucking sucks, but he’s a symptom of the much larger problem: the anti-majoritarian lean of the Senate.
What did fivethirtyeight find, a 6-point tilt on average in the Senate towards the GOP that Democrats would have to overcome to maintain 50-50 in the Senate? Blue waves led to 50-50 in the Senate, and a 3-person majority in the House, that is 99.8% returning to the GOP after November ‘22, not least of which will be due in part to Republican gerrymandering from the statehouses they held or expanded upon during our 2020 “blue wave.” We’re fucking pis-ed at Manchin and Sinema because we as a party likely won’t have another shot at reconciliation bills that produce meaningful change until 2028 or later, which will easily be too late for the planet by then. It’s basically too late now.

Yes. Everything is too late at this point. We can't even agree in the Democratic Party to have Medicare negotiation drug prices. We also can't get Dental, and Vision into Medicare cause those aren't medical needs apparently. That has as much support as background checks for guns. We essentially at this point have no government. There is ZERO consequence for January 6th. No DOJ. We are aimlessly wandering about in the wilderness.

Oh, and Fuck Andrew Yang for going Nader on the bit.

The only thing that can save the Democratic Party from itself right now is if the Supreme's throw Roe in the dumpster. 50/50 shot at this point.

 

[psych]

Yes. Everything is too late at this point. We can't even agree in the Democratic Party to have Medicare negotiation drug prices. We also can't get Dental, and Vision into Medicare cause those aren't medical needs apparently. That has as much support as background checks for guns. We essentially at this point have no government. There is ZERO consequence for January 6th. No DOJ. We are aimlessly wandering about in the wilderness.

Oh, and Fuck Andrew Yang for going Nader on the bit.

The only thing that can save the Democratic Party from itself right now is if the Supreme's throw Roe in the dumpster. 50/50 shot at this point.

I guess one of my points is, the Democratic Party is there. Maybe not $3.5 trillion worth of reconciliation there, although I think it would have been, but certainly more than $1.5 trillion. Jon Tester of fucking ruby red Montana was there, more than Sinema, which is preposterous. Our supposed blue waves of 2018 and 2020 net us 52 seats, rather than 50, and the CEPP is a thing. Medicare expansion and Medicaid expansion are things. A five year extension of the child care tax credit is a thing, rather than maybe a one year extension. Manchin/Sinema suck, but the underlying Senate setup sucks more. I am mad at them for not being Democratic enough, yes, but this clearly who they are- and at least in Manchin’s case- who they represent.
Republicans certainly didn’t act like they had a mandate last time. Sure, they got their disastrous tax cuts through one reconciliation bill, but three of their members waved a middle finger at McConnell- including Jesus himself- Susan Collins, savior of democracy- when it came to repealing the ACA. It just looks like they act as they have a mandate because the only sh-t they care about are tax cuts and ramming through conservative judges- both things that only require 50 votes. Expanding sh-t without directly affecting federal spending is the domain of Democrats- and yes, Manchin and Sinema take some blame for not abolishing the filibuster to achieve said priorities.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I guess one of my points is, the Democratic Party is there. Maybe not $3.5 trillion worth of reconciliation there, although I think it would have been, but certainly more than $1.5 trillion. Jon Tester of fucking ruby red Montana was there, more than Sinema, which is preposterous. Our supposed blue waves of 2018 and 2020 net us 52 seats, rather than 50, and the CEPP is a thing. Medicare expansion and Medicaid expansion are things. A five year extension of the child care tax credit is a thing, rather than maybe a one year extension. Manchin/Sinema suck, but the underlying Senate setup sucks more. I am mad at them for not being Democratic enough, yes, but this clearly who they are- and at least in Manchin’s case- who they represent.
Republicans certainly didn’t act like they had a mandate last time. Sure, they got their disastrous tax cuts through one reconciliation bill, but three of their members waved a middle finger at McConnell- including Jesus himself- Susan Collins, savior of democracy- when it came to repealing the ACA. It just looks like they act as they have a mandate because the only sh-t they care about are tax cuts and ramming through conservative judges- both things that only require 50 votes. Expanding sh-t without directly affecting federal spending is the domain of Democrats- and yes, Manchin and Sinema take some blame for not abolishing the filibuster to achieve said priorities.

We can't even get voting reform passed. Without that we have nothing. They have an easier time destroying the right to vote across the country. This whole Biden Term, Agenda, and legislative plan has been marketed wrong, and over scoped to look like they're getting nothing done. We need a new marketing team and a new execution team. Progressives have over sold their shit, and centrists have gotten too excited about all their power and let it get into their heads.

At this point it's like the ACA. Be careful what you wish for. The ACA ended up destroying Democratic majorities for almost a decade. Hell, it's still a problem. And in the end the centrists boned the ACA anyway when they gutted the public option. Centrists fucked us before, and they'll fuck us now. We should have undersold and over delivered. Now we're WAY over selling and under delivering and it could sweep the Nazi's right back into power.

Oh, and by the way. You used to be able to filibuster judges. The Democrats ended that practice because Mitch was abusing it. Course, Mitch knew that would be to his benefit later. See, if you're willing to burn the fucking house down there is no downside to never compromising.

 

[Handyman]

Hey, great. So what process are you going to use to get what you want?

There is no process as long as you coddle people like Manchin. As long as he and Sinema are there and have no fear the Titanic already hit the iceburg and we are all just moving chairs around.

Look any other time in history (short of the prelude to the Civil War) I 100% agree with you. Hell half the time I would argue it is GOOD nothing gets done because the Senate is just a clusterfuck of stupidity and Washington is completely out of touch. We aren't there anymore though even Biden has finally started to realize that. Committees don't matter if what they push forward have no chance to pass. Outside of some judges what has been accomplished? Nothing. What will be accomplished before the Midterms? Most likely nothing.

Manchin goes on every Sunday show and says crap that is so moronic it makes all our heads spin but he is the guy we need to lower the Party to? Then we do, he still burns us and we have to do it all over again? Democrats don't get it, they never get it. Just like they count on people like Susan Collins to "do the right thing" and then are shocked when she votes like a Republican. These people have shown us who they are...Manchin and Sinema are not on our side. They don't pretend to be anymore. There is no bribe that is worth more than what the lobbyists give them and no one even attempts to put any pressure on them to side with their party. So the people lose and all they think is "The Dems promised us everything, we got nothing...so why vote for them again?".

To play off a point Scooby mentioned...Manchin held Voting Rights hostage to work with Republicans. He negotiated, thought he was close and McConnell assassinated him on live TV over it saying not one Republican will vote for the watered down version Manchin negotiated with those Republicans. It was so brutal some in the Press thought that would be the lightbulb moment where he would wake up and realize this isn't working. Nope. Then the Nuclear Wing decided to blow up the one bill that did get negotiated (Infrastructure) and here we sit with what is likely a lame duck Dem control and the Fascists just smiling knowing their path has almost no road blocks anymore. But hey...we got that chair of Ways and Means and Intelligence!!

You seem to think America is better than what came before it. That we somehow won't make the same mistakes every great Republic/Empire made over the centuries. Problem is we already are making them/made them and our arrogance and naivete is so historically cliche predictable is too nice a word for it. At first I kind of started to agree with SJHovey that I was a bit too paranoid...then I had a conversation with my father who is an optimist and truly believed (until 4 months ago) the system will not allow for it all to fall apart. He now believes we are already too far down the road to Authoritarianism. History is filled this exact story all you need to do is pick an Empire and read about its downfall. Always strikingly similar the only difference is which side is responsible.

I will say it again I hope I am wrong. I hope you and unofan are right and that by protecting Manchin it is helping in some capacity. Nothing would make me happier than if next year you are throwing it in my face how misguided and stupid my line of thinking was. (cause that means the Dems held control and likely expanded it) The problem is history doesn't bear that out too often and considering half of Republicans and a third of Biden voters seem to want a divided country (not like we joke about...legit secession) we likely won't get another shot at this. We said when Biden got elected we have 4 years to fix as much of what is broken as we can. In 10 months we have fixed nothing long term and next year could get ugly even without the Elections. Right now I think the only thing that can save us is if the SC overturns Roe because that might be the final straw for all Dems. Even that might not do it though...please let me be wrong.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

No, you're right. Rome. That's what we are now, and that's where we are headed.