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POTUS 46.10: A New Hope

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ScoobyDoo said:
The man should be in jail right now. Bare minimum. Instead he's golfing every day and living the good life of playboy millionaire. He is the poster child for the plutocrat class in the United States. He hasn't suffered one iota for any of the positively evil things he has done his entire life.
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Ok? None of this has anything to do with what I said.
 
Nothing was going to change this. There have been a few talking heads saying they were surprised, but only by the speed, not the eventuality. Everyone who knew, and was telling the truth, understood that the "Afghani government" and the "Afghani army" were fantasies we had come up with the justify the sunk cost of this atrocious quagmire and keep pouring in good money after bad.

This was Dubya's Vietnam. Obama should have pulled the plug but was afraid of the politics. Dump did because of his xenophobia and crayon-level understanding of geo-politics. Biden then used Dump's kneejerk decision as the excuse to do what the US should have done back around 2005.

The initial military mission was reasonable and a resounding success. The nation-building that followed was doomed from the start and just a hideous waste of lives and treasure.
 
Kepler said:
Nothing was going to change this. There have been a few talking heads saying they were surprised, but only by the speed, not the eventuality. Everyone who knew, and was telling the truth, understood that the "Afghani government" and the "Afghani army" were fantasies we had come up with the justify the sunk cost of this atrocious quagmire.

This was Dubya's Vietnam. Obama should have pulled the plug but was afraid of the politics. Dump did because of his xenophobia and crayon-level understanding of geo-politics. Biden then used Dump's kneejerk decision as the excuse to do what the US should have done back around 2005.

The initial military mission was reasonable and a resounding success. The nation-building that followed was doomed from the start and just a hideous waste of lives and treasure.
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That's basically what Rachel said in the link I provided yesterday from her show. It's been known for a really long time that the nation building exercise was never going to work. I lost all respect for Leon Panetta this week cause he continually nailed himself to that cross and tried to convince people that we actually made strides in Afghanistan.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
That's basically what Rachel said in the link I provided yesterday from her show. It's been known for a really long time that the nation building exercise was never going to work. I lost all respect for Leon Panetta this week cause he continually nailed himself to that cross and tried to convince people that we actually made strides in Afghanistan.
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Don't blame Leon, he was given a job to do and he did it. See also: Blinken and Tillerson. Pompeo you can blame, he's another idiot who believes we can and should bomb the world to make it safe for Christianity or some other idiocy.
 
Kepler said:
Don't blame Leon, he was given a job to do and he did it. See also: Blinken and Tillerson. Pompeo you can blame, he's another idiot who believes we can and should bomb the world to make it safe for Christianity or some other idiocy.
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I don't blame Leon for that. I blame him for doubling down this week. Yeah, Pompeo is also the idiot who negotiated with the Taliban.
 
Swansong said:
From what I've read from non-screechy sources and people that spent substantial time there (and several have contacts involved in this), is that the collapse was immediate and began virtually the second they started pulling people in. If that's the case, no timeline would have changed the outcome. The Afghani government was a house of cards and any movement would topple it. Even if the Administration knew this (and maybe they did, maybe they didn't), what could they have done differently?
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I think what no one saw coming (and should have) was that the Afghan Government would literally quit. In the run up to all of this they cut deals with the Taliban for amnesty. The second the US started to with draw the Government capitulated to save their lives and their jobs.

Scooby,

For better or for worse the idea behind pushing the date back was so the Afghanis could figure out where they were going and how they were going to get there. They can't all come here and we were not really in a position to get them to other countries without a lot of help. What's funny is all of these leaders are denouncing us for how this played out...where the fuck were they? Literally everyone saw this coming (just not this fast) and I don't remember Macron or Johnson sending planes over to get people out or offering to help us, you know, like we do for them every time they fuck up. (which is often) They all read from the same intelligence, they were just happy it wasn't their screw up this time so they let Biden take the fall and they could look like heroes helping out.

As for this "Who Gets It Worse" BS...Democrats are ripping Biden for how this went down...there is zero chance any GOPer would be denouncing Trump (let alone many) in real time. It doesn't matter anyways, Trump was right to make the deal (he just made it the wrong way) and Biden was right to honor it. The media is going to play up the chaos for ratings...because COVID just isn't doing it anymore.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
If that is truly true, then you're correct and I am wrong. But, I will always believe that this could have been handled better. Maybe we needed a small protection force and to get everyone in camps that are protected by our forces so we could get everyone out. There had to be a better way than all this chaos.
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https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status...^1427841957431332869|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=

Then again, here's a Twitter thread that's worth reading and may somewhat disagree with what I've read. It's a fluid situation, obviously.
 
Thanks for the twitter feed swan. And you gotta love that the internet never forgets...like Pepperidge Farms ;^)
 
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mookie1995 said:
ARE they pro gun? Does the average random Afghan own? Seems if they did they would just pick off the tally at their check points instead of running to get out on the first airplane out of dodge?
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The average Afghani likes the Taliban more than the kleptocratic warlords we bribed to say they were the "legitimate government."

They are more likely to be taking pot shots at our Douglas C-9s as they take off.

Do not be the Harkonnen.
 
All fundies are all the same. There are fundy Buddhists who are killers, for goodness' sake.

RWNJs are identical the world over.
 
has anyone referred to the tally as communists yet? Ain’t all dark skinners lefties?? how exactly does this work?
 
Other countries we should stop "playing our little games" in and/or split:

Bahrain
Egypt
Iraq
Jordan
Kuwait
Libya
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Thailand
UAE
Yemen

Pull back to our non-tyrant allies plus the Crusader State.
 
J.D. said:
Not that Trump needs other reasons to be destroyed but he'd be taking a bigger beating in the media than Biden has.
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While I think Biden has taken a pretty big beating in the mainstream media for the mess he was almost entirely left with (and only almost because as VEEP maybe he could have a 5 or 10% influence on Obama and his Afghanistan policies) even if your claim is valid, maybe there are good reasons. Sort of like how every so often Wade Boggs took a borderline pitch that was probably a strike and the ump called it a ball. He had a Hall Of Fame ability to differentiate between balls and strikes, so he got the benefit of the doubt. trump never did one single thing during his sorry a ss presidency to earn even the faintest benefit of a doubt.
 
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