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US Foreign Policy 3.0: We're The Mets of International Diplomacy

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Al Jazeera not covering the festival or kibbutz is shameful. Those were horrific war crimes
 
Rumor has it,air raid sirens on Lebanon Israel border. Who would have thought more countries were going to join in the shit show
 
walrus said:
Rumor has it,air raid sirens on Lebanon Israel border. Who would have thought more countries were going to join in the **** show
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During the Six Day War, Egypt and Syria were spreading propaganda that they were winning the war. So, Jordan thought, hey, let's join in and get our spoils. Israel told them don't, because it won't be worth it. Of course, Jordan didn't believe them. A few days later, the West Bank and all of Jerusalem belonged to Israel.
 
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Target Field had a moment of silence for Israel. I assume the one for the civilians buried under their apartment buildings is coming later?
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Target Field had a moment of silence for Israel. I assume the one for the civilians buried under their apartment buildings is coming later?
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Do we do moments of silence for all the dead Iraqis or Afghanis after 9/11?

I know what you are saying but there is a reason one is being viewed as worse than the other in this situation. It's not new...or do you do a moment of silence for Hiroshima?

(This reads worse than I mean it but no real way to say it another way. You know we are)
 
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I might be alone, but burning people alive in front of their families because they are too elderly to move, raping women and then parading them through the streets with blood running down their legs to collective cheers of “Glory to God” from the crowd, opening up the hostages phones and going to apps to record their execution and upload it to their profiles, beheading babies by the dozens, etc., is a level or two beyond what we’re seeing from the other side. As I’ve mentioned before I’m pretty openly critical of Israel and how they’ve handled all of this. But this was unfathomably cruel and disgusting. I’m not asking anyone here to agree with me or be sympathetic to Israel, just telling you where I’m at.
 
state of hockey said:
I might be alone, but burning people alive in front of their families because they are too elderly to move, raping women and then parading them through the streets with blood running down their legs to collective cheers of “Glory to God” from the crowd, opening up the hostages phones and going to apps to record their execution and upload it to their profiles, beheading babies by the dozens, etc., is a level or two beyond what we’re seeing from the other side. As I’ve mentioned before I’m pretty openly critical of Israel and how they’ve handled all of this. But this was unfathomably cruel and disgusting. I’m not asking anyone here to agree with me or be sympathetic to Israel, just telling you where I’m at.
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I deleted my post above yours, but what you said has nothing to do with what I said. I never once defended, excused, or even said a word trying to downplay what hamas did

Forgive me if I'm a little upset that we're rightfully sad and angry about Israelis being brutally murdered while the Palestinians have had war crimes committed against them and nary a critical peep can be heard from anyone.
 
“Nary a critical peep”? It has been constant. In and of itself that is completely fine. Again, I’m critical of Israel to the point that the Jewish half of my family thinks I’m all for pogroms.

I guess in turn you’ll have to forgive me for getting upset that every single condemnation of these disgusting acts is being qualified instantly, sometimes preemptively, with whataboutisms.

Edit: I’ll make the same addition Handyman did earlier. This is coming off hotter than I’m really intending it to, but this particular piece has me a little charged up. Also, this isn’t meant to be directed solely at you, of course. I probably should have either:

1. Not bottled it in this long, or
2. Continued to avoid this thread for a bit.
 
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I think I'll be excusing myself as well. Here and other social media.

I'd rather not see long term friendships fall victim to this conflict because we're shouting past each other. I strongly suspect we're all on the same page here but for peripheral matters that don't, actually, matter.

Apologies for any ill-conceived words. I'm out for a while.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
I strongly suspect we're all on the same page here but for peripheral matters that don't, actually, matter.
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More than likely correct. I also wish there was a way to only hold the people that carried this out responsible, for example.

I also suspect that if we hashed this out over a few beers in person we’d be on the same page before we cracked open the second round. :^)
 
Hey Chuckles it's not the left that has kissed Putin's ass over Russia vs. Ukraine, and here's your boy on the latest conflict:

Whoa. Trump just attacked Israel and said that he'll "never forget" that they didn't participate in the Soleimani operation. He said Israel "let us down" and needs to "straighten it out" and called them weak, saying they should "strengthen themselves up."
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Maybe expand your media consumption beyond that of cartoons and OANN.
 
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Rawls suggested, when evaluating the ethics of a situation, we should use a thought experiment called the veil of ignorance.

Let's use that here. Think of the facts of each of these instances of pain and suffering, without identifying whether the victim is Israeli or Palestinian, Jewish or Muslim, outside or inside Gaza. A child killed by a Hamas soldier or an Israeli (ahem, Raytheon) missile is the same: a child killed. Let's put our emphasis on the undeniable facts of the conflict: the carnage. Those are the first-order consequences here: the killing and maiming and displacement of human beings. Let's agree they are the focus. That may lend more solemnity to our discussion. Giving each of those humans equal weight will at least open us up to sympathy for all of them.

The intimacy of the direct infliction of suffering is what jumps out and convinces us that some acts are more cruel, or of a more direct responsibility. Frying a baby in oil feels more horrible than releasing a bomb which has an identical effect on the baby. I'm not arguing this is even wrong -- I feel it, just like you. The pilot who fires on what he has been told is a terrorist and causes the collapse of a building that beheads a child seems less bizarrely out of the range of action I can imagine doing than a solider who quite intentionally and methodically selects and beheads a particular child. Still, I doubt there are many actual sociopaths on either side of the conflict, and no difference in their statistical frequency. Vengeance and desperation are driving normal people, with the same distribution of morals and merits as we have, to actions we can't imagine because we have never similarly suffered.

I don't know how we as individuals minimize our biases and our double standards. Maybe just by witnessing the suffering on each side and reaching a sort of ecumenical disgust over the general inhumanity of these conflicts.
 
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