ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

[St. Clown]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Supreme Leader Snoke will turn out to look nothing whatsoever like his hologram, the reveal will be an homage to the scene in The Wizard of Oz when Toto pulls aside the curtain. it will be Jar Jar Binks in a wheelchair.

No, you missed it entirely. From now on, I just want to say that Rey and Luke are in a struggle against The Knights of Ren and Stimpy.

 

[The Rube]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

No, you missed it entirely. From now on, I just want to say that Rey and Luke are in a struggle against The Knights of Ren and Stimpy.

Finally did read a click bait about Rey being Ren's sister...I can see it....don't agree, but it is very plausible:

http://www.businessinsider.com/rey-from-star-wars-theory-2015-12

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Finally did read a click bait about Rey being Ren's sister...I can see it....don't agree, but it is very plausible:

http://www.businessinsider.com/rey-from-star-wars-theory-2015-12

I'm really hoping she's more like the next Anakin in that she really is nobody, and I think the most likely thing is that she was at Luke's jedi school at a very young age when stuff went down because of her young age, her mind has chosen to remember her being left there as being left by family.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

No, you missed it entirely. From now on, I just want to say that Rey and Luke are in a struggle against The Knights of Ren and Stimpy.

Are Pinky and The Brain waiting in the wings for universal domination?

 

[Kepler]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Supreme Leader Snoke will turn out to look nothing whatsoever like his hologram, the reveal will be an homage to the scene in The Wizard of Oz when Toto pulls aside the curtain. it will be Jar Jar Binks in a wheelchair.

Asimov did it.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Are Pinky and The Brain waiting in the wings for universal domination?

Pinky and the Brain will have finally conquered Dantooine and prove to the First Order's greatest threat after the Resistance, but for very different reasons. That's all for those details as I don't want to spoil too much.

 

[Greyeagle]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Pinky and the Brain will have finally conquered Dantooine and prove to the First Order's greatest threat after the Resistance, but for very different reasons. That's all for those details as I don't want to spoil too much.

Too bad Boogeyman never took care of the Pinky & The Brain Twins before he was called to the dark side.
He had several opportunities during his many travels to Vancouverdian.....

 

[St. Clown]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Too bad Boogeyman never took care of the Pinky & The Brain Twins before he was called to the dark side.
He had several opportunities during his many travels to Vancouverdian.....

See, now you're giving details on future episodes. Not cool, GE. Not cool.

 

[BassAle]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

I read the "Thrawn Trilogy" when I was in Jr High (I think, don't quite remember when they came out) and I seem to remember I thought they were okay but had some plot points I thought were pretty stupid. I don't really get the love for them. I didn't bother with any extended universe stuff after that (except some of the video games)

 

[St. Clown]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

I read the "Thrawn Trilogy" when I was in Jr High (I think, don't quite remember when they came out) and I seem to remember I thought they were okay but had some plot points I thought were pretty stupid. I don't really get the love for them. I didn't bother with any extended universe stuff after that (except some of the video games)

With exception to Empire Strikes Back, it's easy to point out some off putting things in most movies or books ever produced.

The Joruus C'boath was iffy at times, and the "Luuke" clone was a good idea if not for the "Luuke" name assigned to it. Still, Thrawn himself was a lot of fun as the main villain.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

given how the films have set up to tell story arcs, over the set of three:
Anakin --> Vader --> ultimately turned to good by son, then dies.
Kylo Ren --> self-styled follower of Vader --> ultimately [will be] turned to good by [*], then lives.




[*] being his sister, of course.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

The next movie will depart in some fashion or another from TESB, and the third will be different from RotJ. If they're not different in not only substance but form, then people will walk away from Disney's plan of Star Wars In Perpetuity.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Were they giving the old EU book readers the big FU by naming Leia's kid Ben in this movie?

I'm sure that all 30 of you will do fine.

well said. While I was annoyed by the "sameness" of VII to IV, I still really enjoyed it. Although I was never as bothered by I, II and III as other people were.

So... we shouldn't take seriously on these matters?

Rey could've simply been a padawan learner at the new Jedi temple Luke had established after RotJ. ...

This is my take as well. I like the "Skywalker family story" aspect of having Rey be a (somehow with an English accent) child of Luke. But I like the idea of Luke being an actual Jedi (no siring children, emotional attachment, etc) even more.

 

[The Rube]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

The next movie will depart in some fashion or another from TESB, and the third will be different from RotJ. If they're not different in not only substance but form, then people will walk away from Disney's plan of Star Wars In Perpetuity.

I think the next one will be all sorts of crazy. Just like Empire was. But that's about it in similarity.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

My only gripe is with story. Okay, so super-nerds are whining about the loss of the EU (which I find impossible to give a rip about). Disney has a "new" canon of tie in novels and tv shows, which also seems ponderous and unnecessary.

But no matter what is canon, I want the movies to stand alone. I don't need exposition spoon fed to me*, but give enough that we don't need to consult a wiki to fill in basic gaps. I'll wait until VIII and IX to see what holes get filled in before I judge VII for it, but there's a lot of context missing.

Example: Evidently, the tie in novels talk a lot about the relationship between the First Order, their war for territory with the New Republic, the NR's support of the Resistance in lieu of a formal armada, how a battle at Jakku shortly after Endor shaped it all... but NONE of that is in the film, not even mentioned off hand. Of course maybe it's not too important yet (again, I'll see what we learn in VIII and IX), but it hurt the film a bit.

And the destruction of the Hosnian system (which isn't named until it's toast) doesn't have much impact. There's talk about destroying the senate in Hux's Third Reich speech, but that's the only hint of why those planets were significant (beyond loss of life). We get shots of people on the surface (like a Michael Bay or Roland Emmerich disaster movie) but unless there's a cut scene, we have no idea who they are or why we are impacted by their demise. Conversely, how much of a tie to Alderaan do we get in IV? A lot more, I'd say, without bogging us down with tons of exposition.

* One of the things the OT did so well was walking this line. There was JUST enough exposition and context there to let you fill in details. Tarkin talking about te emperor and the senate, Obi-wan and Luke talking about Anakin and the Clone Wars, everything we can gather about Alderaan being important to Leia (and therefore the rebellion)... all of that painted a part of a picture. I feel like VII was lacking in this front, although that is still better than being force-fed tons of exposition.

 

[Handyman]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Outside of Leia being from there we got zero tie in for Alderaan im sorry. Hell all we know is they are "peaceful". They dont even expand on it later and she shows almost zero grief about it as time goes on. I think that is beyond nitpicky.

The point is not the planets themselves, it is showing the destructive power of the weapon.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

The next movie will depart in some fashion or another from TESB, and the third will be different from RotJ. If they're not different in not only substance but form, then people will walk away from Disney's plan of Star Wars In Perpetuity.

It seems to me that the overall unifying mythic structure that they have put in place around the movies requires that VII, VIII and IX (why are we using roman numerals??) parallel IV, V, and VI, and have the things that didn't work out quite right the first time work out better the second time around.

The old guy at the beginning of TFA was the person put on Dakku to watch over Rey, just like Obi-Wan was put on Tattooine to watch over Luke. That's why he had the map, to give it to Rey when she was "ready" to start her formal training in the use of The Force. His hand was forced by events. (it was no coincidence that The Millennium Falcon was there waiting for her, was it??)

So now at the very end of TFA we see the stage set for one of the major plot elements in VIII: Rey's training by Luke in the ways of The Force, just as Luke was trained by Yoda. He won't take the light saber from her because it was destined to be hers all along.

I don't see this parallel structure as a problem at all; IMHO it is essential to the dramatic structure. If they don't follow it, then the sequels will be weak; you can't just toss in arbitrary stuff to be cool or unexpected without undermining the cohesion of the entire narrative structure that unifies each set of trilogies in a meta-trilogy.

 

[Kepler]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Disney has a "new" canon of tie in novels and tv shows, which also seems ponderous and unnecessary.

You misspelled "lucrative."

 

[St. Clown]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

It seems to me that the overall unifying mythic structure that they have put in place around the movies requires that VII, VIII and IX (why are we using roman numerals??) parallel IV, V, and VI, and have the things that didn't work out quite right the first time work out better the second time around.

Roman numerals are used in the opening exposition of each Star Wars movie, ever since TESB was created. Lucas even went back and added it to the original Star Wars movie's title crawler when it was no long just "Star Wars," but became "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope."

The old guy at the beginning of TFA was the person put on Dakku to watch over Rey, just like Obi-Wan was put on Tattooine to watch over Luke. That's why he had the map, to give it to Rey when she was "ready" to start her formal training in the use of The Force. His hand was forced by events. (it was no coincidence that The Millennium Falcon was there waiting for her, was it??)

On that, I very much agree with you. I think Unkar Plutt was in on this whole thing, along with Han to some degree or another, too.

So now at the very end of TFA we see the stage set for one of the major plot elements in VIII: Rey's training by Luke in the ways of The Force, just as Luke was trained by Yoda. He won't take the light saber from her because it was destined to be hers all along.

I don't see this parallel structure as a problem at all; IMHO it is essential to the dramatic structure. If they don't follow it, then the sequels will be weak; you can't just toss in arbitrary stuff to be cool or unexpected without undermining the cohesion of the entire narrative structure that unifies each set of trilogies in a meta-trilogy.

Yes, there's a standard three-part structure to most shows, and within each part you can find sub-parts (chapters) that will often follow that same general format. In this case, Star Wars clearly followed that structure for the Original Trilogy, and this one will likely do the same. But it's the details within the second part of the story that matters. Yes, Luke will train Rey, but she went to him knowing who she needed to find (with help from a mutual friend there in Chewbacca) and what's expected of her, whereas Luke only had a name and planet. Now if she leaves her training early because her friends are in trouble, then we know this series will have a lot off issues going forward.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: ZOMG! THE FORCE AWAKENS!: All-Spoiler And Discussion Thread

Yes, there's a standard three-part structure to most shows, and within each part you can find sub-parts (chapters) that will often follow that same general format. In this case, Star Wars clearly followed that structure for the Original Trilogy, and this one will likely do the same. But it's the details within the second part of the story that matters. Yes, Luke will train Rey, but she went to him knowing who she needed to find (with help from a mutual friend there in Chewbacca) and what's expected of her, whereas Luke only had a name and planet. Now if she leaves her training early because her friends are in trouble, then we know this series will have a lot off issues going forward.

It seems we are broadly in agreement then on the concept. We'll have to wait and see whether they "have the things that didn't work out quite right the first time work out better the second time around." or not.

For much of the original trilogy, it almost seems like Lucas took a synopsis of Joseph Campbell's work and turned it into a checklist. Even without Lucas directly involved, I notice Lawrence Kasdan is still writing the scripts (he was credited with the screenplay in V, VI, and VII) and so one hopes for thematic continuity from him.




Off on a tangent: Kasdan also was screenwriter for the first Raiders of the Lost Ark, Body Heat, The Big Chill, and one of the all-time great movies, Grand Canyon.