Yale - The best team in the country?

[Red Cloud]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Fair enough. However, when you responded to my post talking about RPI, it certainly seemed as though you were talking about RPI.

It was not my intention. Frankly, I loathe it as a ranking index. Far too simplistic, but hey, that's the NC$$ for you.

Anyway, it's really a pointless debate. By mid-April we'll know who the best team in the country was for this season...but we have to have something to talk about until then.

Well, by then it'll be a different argument. I'm only interested in the now at this point. All of the statistics aside, and having seen each of the top contenders play in person, I was most impressed by Yale's ability to take control of a game and make it run at their tempo, even against a team like RPI (the school, not the statistic ) that plays a very similar style. Most impressive to me is their vast improvement over last year when it comes to defense. That, to me, is what makes them more of a contender than they were even last year, considering that if they'd had any semblance of defense whatsoever, they'd have been in the Frozen Four. It's not often you score 7 goals in a game and then lose.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Oh, I'm going to love to see you point out where I've attacked anyone. Using facts and logic doesn't count, junior.

Basic math, it appears, is not one of your strong points.

I do know that I go to fans of teams with precisely 1 win to find out about who's worth being called the best in the nation. That much is so obvious.

Oh, wait, is this the part where I put in some graphics to make myself feel better?

LOL

You asked to know which computer rankings Yale was at the top of. I obliged. They are at the top of nearly all of the ones that take SOS into account, first and foremost, KRACH. Ignore it all you want, it only serves to make you look even more silly.

Your reading comprehension skills suck. I asked no such thing, and further you seem to be the one who is totally ignoring the argument against Yale. Silly, yes indeed.

As for median SOS, 33 of 58 and falling. Will they still have a median SOS in April when it's 45th?

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Well, by then it'll be a different argument. I'm only interested in the now at this point. All of the statistics aside, and having seen each of the top contenders play in person, I was most impressed by Yale's ability to take control of a game and make it run at their tempo, even against a team like RPI (the school, not the statistic ) that plays a very similar style. Most impressive to me is their vast improvement over last year when it comes to defense. That, to me, is what makes them more of a contender than they were even last year, considering that if they'd had any semblance of defense whatsoever, they'd have been in the Frozen Four. It's not often you score 7 goals in a game and then lose.

I think the 7 goals angle is a bit misleading though. When BC was up 9-4 with less than 10 minutes left, I'm not sure they were playing their best.

Saying that, we'll see what happens in March-April. Until then, I don't think they're the best team in the country. They have played a below average schedule, which will only get worse as the season goes along. IMO, that is what hurts the ECAC teams most come NCAA time. There is a reason that it's been 20+ years since an ECAC team played for a National Championship. Until an ECAC team wins a National Title again, I won't consider a team from that conference to be the best in the country, regardless of what rankings say.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Well, by then it'll be a different argument. I'm only interested in the now at this point.

Right, by April Yale won't even be in the discussion.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Only one of us is getting bent out of shape over this. Do my observations still suck?

It's pretty clear from the first sentence that the answer to the question above is a resounding "yes."

Yale's not on top of "some" computer rankings, they're on top of almost all of them.

All (or "almost all") includes "some", no? Venn diagram?

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

It's pretty clear from the first sentence that the answer to the question above is a resounding "yes."

Again with the subjectivity? Sigh. We're getting nowhere fast.

All (or "almost all") includes "some", no? Venn diagram?

Correct, but "none" is what we were starting with. Try to keep up.

I think the 7 goals angle is a bit misleading though. When BC was up 9-4 with less than 10 minutes left, I'm not sure they were playing their best.

Well, OK, if we're going to discount goals scored when the other team "wasn't playing their best," let's just discount Air Force's comeback. Yale's undefeated. It's on the up and up.

Saying that, we'll see what happens in March-April. Until then, I don't think they're the best team in the country. They have played a below average schedule, which will only get worse as the season goes along. IMO, that is what hurts the ECAC teams most come NCAA time. There is a reason that it's been 20+ years since an ECAC team played for a National Championship. Until an ECAC team wins a National Title again, I won't consider a team from that conference to be the best in the country, regardless of what rankings say.

That's really, really thin. You go back to the SOS argument (thoroughly debunked, I can only continue to point to KRACH as an objective ranking system that includes SOS and continue to see that ignored), and then talk about how it will get worse later in the season as though that somehow relates to whether they're currently the best out there. Then you openly admit that you're biased against Yale's entire conference because it's been 21 years since one of its teams won a single-game knockout tournament at the end of the year. No one's trying to claim that the ECAC's on the level of the three major conferences, but that fact alone doesn't preclude a top team from coming out of its ranks.

Right, by April Yale won't even be in the discussion.

We'll worry about that in April there, Carnac. We're talking about right now, not April. I know that's a difficult concept for you.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

I think the 7 goals angle is a bit misleading though. When BC was up 9-4 with less than 10 minutes left, I'm not sure they were playing their best.

It sure is. BC was running a train up on Yale when York called off the dogs and started double shifting some freshmen (Kreider and Alber particularly) and was rolling the bottom lines and pairings a lot of the way through the last 10 mins.

Personally I was glad to see it. Yale got a moral victory and BC rested their top players and got freshmen good experience there which helped win a national title.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

LOL

Aw, I'm sorry, are you feeling attacked there? You know, AFTER I dared you to find out where I attacked you when you accused me? I guess the concept of time isn't one of your strong points either.

Your reading comprehension skills suck. I asked no such thing,

Name 3

Yeah, oops. You did ask me to name computer rankings Yale was at the top of.

and further you seem to be the one who is totally ignoring the argument against Yale. Silly, yes indeed.

I'm not ignoring it, I've refuted it. Let me repeat myself one more time, maybe it'll sink in this time. LOOK. AT. KRACH. It INCLUDES the strength of schedule when calculating the top team in the nation AT THIS MOMENT. It does NOT predict future results or include games to be played. If you are going to accept that KRACH, an objective ranking system, exists, and still want to point to strength of schedule, you are counting strength of schedule twice, which is not rational.

But then again, you're pretty much proving that you're not rational, aren't you?

As for median SOS, 33 of 58 and falling. Will they still have a median SOS in April when it's 45th?

Irrelevant. Games they haven't played yet have nothing to do with whether they're the top team right now. Why is this difficult for you to understand?

 

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Lighten up, my friend. You are coming on pretty strong. I was just having a little fun with the comparative scores ...

Please don't confuse my general cruelty with anything special conjured up just for you.

I love how Yale fans are rabidly shoving their teams down our throat and then every once in awhile float the whole "We're just happy to be here! Let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya! Purple monkey dishwasher!" b.s. I find it entertaining. Schizophrenic, even.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Please don't confuse my general cruelty with anything special conjured up just for you.

I love how Yale fans are rabidly shoving their teams down our throat and then every once in awhile float the whole "We're just happy to be here! Let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya! Purple monkey dishwasher!" b.s. I find it entertaining. Schizophrenic, even.

Yale doesn't have many fans - at least, not that have been there all the way through the dark ages. Those ones getting overly exhuberant, I can understand. The bandwagoneers... yeah.

 

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Yale doesn't have many fans - at least, not that have been there all the way through the dark ages. Those ones getting overly exhuberant, I can understand. The bandwagoneers... yeah.

No one would care half as much if Yale fans (and you) really were "just happy to have a good team" and not claiming they're "skating circles around the WHCA!Q!!11!!" RPI annoys me, by the way. They really should have beaten Yale. Then people could ****!

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

No one would care half as much if Yale fans (and you) really were "just happy to have a good team" and not claiming they're "skating circles around the WHCA!Q!!11!!" RPI annoys me, by the way. They really should have beaten Yale. Then people could ****!

I think you should actually blame Red Cloud for his team not beating Yale. That would be an excellent idea.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

No one would care half as much if Yale fans (and you) really were "just happy to have a good team" and not claiming they're "skating circles around the WHCA!Q!!11!!" RPI annoys me, by the way. They really should have beaten Yale. Then people could ****!

Well, maybe when we don't have 3 guys out of the lineup with concussions and our captain out with a hand injury, we will. We gave 'em a run for their money, if we'd have stayed out of the box things might have been a little bit different. You should come on out for Freakout when we play them again. Goes for both of you, got a place to stay if you do.

 

[SteveF]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

the definition of a subjective argument is saying that yale should have, could have, or would have made the frozen four last year.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Well, maybe when we don't have 3 guys out of the lineup with concussions and our captain out with a hand injury, we will. We gave 'em a run for their money, if we'd have stayed out of the box things might have been a little bit different. You should come on out for Freakout when we play them again. Goes for both of you, got a place to stay if you do.

That is actually a trip I'd like to make at some point.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

the definition of a subjective argument is saying that yale should have, could have, or would have made the frozen four last year.

Agreed. Anyone who says that is being subjective. That wouldn't include me, since I said that their garbage defense last year made that unlikely. They had a garbage defense well before they played BC.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

That's really, really thin. You go back to the SOS argument (thoroughly debunked, I can only continue to point to KRACH as an objective ranking system that includes SOS and continue to see that ignored), and then talk about how it will get worse later in the season as though that somehow relates to whether they're currently the best out there. Then you openly admit that you're biased against Yale's entire conference because it's been 21 years since one of its teams won a single-game knockout tournament at the end of the year. No one's trying to claim that the ECAC's on the level of the three major conferences, but that fact alone doesn't preclude a top team from coming out of its ranks.

Correct. I am biased against the ECAC, and while it's not impossible for the best team to come out of an inferior conference, it hasn't happened in decades for the ECAC. Until it happens again, I won't believe the best team in the country plays in the ECAC. It's a fair argument.

By the way, how has the SOS argument been debunked? Yale has played a below average schedule. I'm not saying it's their fault, but it's the truth. Air Force, Vermont and Colorado College are usually very good teams, and Yale can't change the fact that they play in the ECAC. They also can't change the fact that they've played a below average schedule. IMO, KRACH clearly doesn't factor in SOS as much as it should. KRACH is comical in itself anyway. I'm supposed to believe that Yale is 215% the team that North Dakota is? Or that they are 400%+ the team that Miami is? I think that, in and of itself, debunks KRACH, and any other ranking system. The only ranking system that matters is how the teams are ranked after the NCAA Tournament. We won't know that until April.

 

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Well, maybe when we don't have 3 guys out of the lineup with concussions and our captain out with a hand injury, we will. We gave 'em a run for their money, if we'd have stayed out of the box things might have been a little bit different. You should come on out for Freakout when we play them again. Goes for both of you, got a place to stay if you do.

This is totally your fault.

But as soon as I saw the injuries I assumed Yale would win and their fans would cock off as if they beat you with no injuries and Jerry D. and Pirri still on the team.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

By the way, how has the SOS argument been debunked? Yale has played a below average schedule. I'm not saying it's their fault, but it's the truth. Air Force, Vermont and Colorado College are usually very good teams, and Yale can't change the fact that they play in the ECAC. They also can't change the fact that they've played a below average schedule.

Say, did Yale play a below average schedule?

IMO, KRACH clearly doesn't factor in SOS as much as it should.

Explain. Is it because it's not agreeing with your pre-determined, admittedly biased position?

KRACH is comical in itself anyway. I'm supposed to believe that Yale is 215% the team that North Dakota is? Or that they are 400%+ the team that Miami is? I think that, in and of itself, debunks KRACH, and any other ranking system.

That you believe that is what KRACH says indicates to me that you don't understand how KRACH functions.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

The heck with this "Yale is the best team in the country" debate. I'm just tickled Red Cloud has found another team to cheer for.