Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
Imagine a laws of the game replay in the World Cup.... You could hear the screaming meltdown around the world.
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Imagine a laws of the game replay in the World Cup.... You could hear the screaming meltdown around the world.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
Thoughts of the World Cup final expanding?
Thoughts of the World Cup final expanding?
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
How so? It would be kind of crowded having three teams on the pitch.
How so? It would be kind of crowded having three teams on the pitch.
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
Will FIFA go back to 1966 and screw England again?
MountieBoyOz
Eater of Worlds
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
Don't give Platini any ideas.
I just hope Michel remembers if it wasn't for us and England, he would've starred on the Vichy France national team.
Don't give Platini any ideas.
I just hope Michel remembers if it wasn't for us and England, he would've starred on the Vichy France national team.
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
40 teams, 5 teams in a pool, Two top teams in each pool advance to the knockout rounds.
Each team is guaranteed one extra game in pool play. And FIFA would have 32 more games to broadcast, for a grand total of 80 pool games to broadcast, upping it from 48 currently. Would likely have to extend pool play another couple of days to get all the games in while allowing the max number of global telecasts that would be interesting to world viewers.
Don't really see them expanding the knockout rounds expanding from 16 until they expand the World Cup Field. Personally, I think they would just expand the World Cup Field first.
40 teams, 5 teams in a pool, Two top teams in each pool advance to the knockout rounds.
Each team is guaranteed one extra game in pool play. And FIFA would have 32 more games to broadcast, for a grand total of 80 pool games to broadcast, upping it from 48 currently. Would likely have to extend pool play another couple of days to get all the games in while allowing the max number of global telecasts that would be interesting to world viewers.
What happens on the final day of pool play when one team is sitting it out? You need even numbers of pool participants.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
It also extend the world cup quite a bit with one team taking a day off every "day." It just seems very difficult to expand the world cup without going crazy. Having 6-team groups with the top 2 moving on seems like too much, not to mention makes for a very long group stage. It seems more likely that they would go to 40 teams with 10 groups and only the top 6 2nd place teams make it but I don't see that going over well?
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
Extra rest day or they have some sort crossover deal with somebody in another pool. I would lean a little more towards the extra rest day is that there is a limit onto just how many games they can show on the air all at once. There would always have to be a team sitting out during a day of pool play, so why not have the top teams sit that last day while the rest of the pool battles it out to see who else makes it to the knockout rounds. In theory, they would be the best teams in the world, besides the Host Country, and they should in theory would more than likely move on to the next round short of somebody needing another country to knock off somebody else so that they make the knockout rounds. There will be a lot of eyeballs watching those games.
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
I agree that having 5 team groups would be a bit problematic. Round numbers make a lot of things easier. That said, FIFA don't necessarily care about what's best or easier (see Qatar amongst other things), so such an expansion wouldn't be a total shocker. The bigger the tournament the more limiting it is on who would be ready, willing, and able to host (absent FIFA making decisions like Qatar of course).
I agree that having 5 team groups would be a bit problematic. Round numbers make a lot of things easier. That said, FIFA don't necessarily care about what's best or easier (see Qatar amongst other things), so such an expansion wouldn't be a total shocker. The bigger the tournament the more limiting it is on who would be ready, willing, and able to host (absent FIFA making decisions like Qatar of course).
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
There are already more countries eligible for World Cup qualifying than there are nations in the UN. They handle it through the Federations and qualifying rounds. I can see them tweaking how many slots to award each federation over time, hard to imagine they'd change the format of the final 32. My "prediction" would be that they stick at 32 indefinitely and say, "look, it's an elite tournament. You get your chances in qualifying. You got objections, talk to your federation, not us."
Were they ever to move, my quess would be that they would threaten to expand to 40 teams. Top 8 teams get bye into knockout rounds. Remaining 32 teams play for remaining 8 spots (e.g., 8 pools of 4, only top team advances). That would suck compared to current format, thereby preserving it by offering an inferior alternative in the name of expansion.
There are already more countries eligible for World Cup qualifying than there are nations in the UN. They handle it through the Federations and qualifying rounds. I can see them tweaking how many slots to award each federation over time, hard to imagine they'd change the format of the final 32. My "prediction" would be that they stick at 32 indefinitely and say, "look, it's an elite tournament. You get your chances in qualifying. You got objections, talk to your federation, not us."
Were they ever to move, my quess would be that they would threaten to expand to 40 teams. Top 8 teams get bye into knockout rounds. Remaining 32 teams play for remaining 8 spots (e.g., 8 pools of 4, only top team advances). That would suck compared to current format, thereby preserving it by offering an inferior alternative in the name of expansion.
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Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
True with that. But there's not as many other numbers of expansion that would work quite as nicely as what 40 would. 36 is problematic because you would have to have 6 pools of 6 teams, and then you would have the issue of trying to sort out the bracket. Could just do a 12 team bracket with it, but their will be bellyaching about who gets byes with it.
And the only other number that would work as nicely as what 32 does, 48, would be letting in too many teams and you would be losing the mark of it being elite. frankly, I don't think having an extra off day during pool play would be all that big of a deal.
True with that. But there's not as many other numbers of expansion that would work quite as nicely as what 40 would. 36 is problematic because you would have to have 6 pools of 6 teams, and then you would have the issue of trying to sort out the bracket. Could just do a 12 team bracket with it, but their will be bellyaching about who gets byes with it.
And the only other number that would work as nicely as what 32 does, 48, would be letting in too many teams and you would be losing the mark of it being elite. frankly, I don't think having an extra off day during pool play would be all that big of a deal.
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
Could work, the host would have to be in the pool play under that plan. The only thing wrong with it that I could think of that all of the top contender fans wouldn't really bother with coming into the country for the pool play, they would only show up for the knockout rounds. I would think that a lot of the full stadiums at World Cup games comes from the top contenders fans taking in the time to check out another match while they're there. Of course, that might make a world cup a little easier for a smaller country to pull off, but I don't know if FIFA would want to go that way.
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
IMO, if the World Cup is going to expand (and I tend to agree with FreshFish that it will not), they would push it to 36, and do 6 groups of 6 (top 2 advance from each group plus the top 4 third place teams). The problem with groups of 5 is that not all of the teams can play on the same day for the final game day. As a result, I think groups of 4 or 6 are the only real solutions. 6 groups of 6 still allows all the top 2 teams to advance (9 groups of 4 would mean that 2 second place finishers would miss), while still keeping the traditional 2nd Round - QF - SF - Finals format. I think having the top 8 teams have byes into the 2nd Round is basically a non-starter. I think a pure knockout tournament (a la the 1934 World Cup) would be more likely.
The obvious issue with having groups of 6 though is that it basically adds another week or so to the tournament (I don't think that would be seen in a good light for all the world clubs). Currently, they play 48 group stage games over 2 weeks, with 3 games/day through the first two games, and then 4 games/day for the final game of each group. A move to groups of 6 would require 90 group stage games. Even if you did 4 games/day through the first 4 group games, and then 6 games/day for the final game of each group, it would take 3 weeks. Plus, you have the likely issue of the extra strain on the host to accommodate the extra fans/games. It's doable, but unlikely.
Ultimately, the only thing that would likely happen as a result of expansion would be that more UEFA teams would get in. If 36 were the option, my guess is at least 2 (if not 2.5 or 3) of the extra spots would go to UEFA, with Oceania getting a full spot. I think FIFA is happy with how many teams are currently going from each confederation, and I don't see them changing that up all too much.
IMO, if the World Cup is going to expand (and I tend to agree with FreshFish that it will not), they would push it to 36, and do 6 groups of 6 (top 2 advance from each group plus the top 4 third place teams). The problem with groups of 5 is that not all of the teams can play on the same day for the final game day. As a result, I think groups of 4 or 6 are the only real solutions. 6 groups of 6 still allows all the top 2 teams to advance (9 groups of 4 would mean that 2 second place finishers would miss), while still keeping the traditional 2nd Round - QF - SF - Finals format. I think having the top 8 teams have byes into the 2nd Round is basically a non-starter. I think a pure knockout tournament (a la the 1934 World Cup) would be more likely.
The obvious issue with having groups of 6 though is that it basically adds another week or so to the tournament (I don't think that would be seen in a good light for all the world clubs). Currently, they play 48 group stage games over 2 weeks, with 3 games/day through the first two games, and then 4 games/day for the final game of each group. A move to groups of 6 would require 90 group stage games. Even if you did 4 games/day through the first 4 group games, and then 6 games/day for the final game of each group, it would take 3 weeks. Plus, you have the likely issue of the extra strain on the host to accommodate the extra fans/games. It's doable, but unlikely.
Ultimately, the only thing that would likely happen as a result of expansion would be that more UEFA teams would get in. If 36 were the option, my guess is at least 2 (if not 2.5 or 3) of the extra spots would go to UEFA, with Oceania getting a full spot. I think FIFA is happy with how many teams are currently going from each confederation, and I don't see them changing that up all too much.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
My guess would be:
UEFA 13+1=14
CONMEBOL 4.5+.5=5
CAF 5+1=6
CONCACAF 3.5+.5=4
AFC 4.5+0.5=5
OFC 0.5+0.5=1
Of course FIFA might hate that because it doesn't result in anything that is easily broken into 6 team pots? I wonder if that ever happen if they would seed the top 6 or top 12?
14 for UEFA would be perfect, 8 group winner plus top 2nd place team auto qualify, 8 remaining 2nd place teams do the playoff as now...
As for the strain on the host, don't forget about dealing with 4 more training facilities for the additional countries participating. In all honesty, the more you think about Qatar, the more you wonder how anyone could even vote for such a country to deal with fans from 32 teams, facilities for 32 countries and everything that goes with the world cup in a country that is smaller than Connecticut, has 1 or 2 legit airports and TWO cities larger than Green Bay, WI.
I honestly don't think UEFA gets half of the additional spots.
My guess would be:
UEFA 13+1=14
CONMEBOL 4.5+.5=5
CAF 5+1=6
CONCACAF 3.5+.5=4
AFC 4.5+0.5=5
OFC 0.5+0.5=1
Of course FIFA might hate that because it doesn't result in anything that is easily broken into 6 team pots? I wonder if that ever happen if they would seed the top 6 or top 12?
14 for UEFA would be perfect, 8 group winner plus top 2nd place team auto qualify, 8 remaining 2nd place teams do the playoff as now...
As for the strain on the host, don't forget about dealing with 4 more training facilities for the additional countries participating. In all honesty, the more you think about Qatar, the more you wonder how anyone could even vote for such a country to deal with fans from 32 teams, facilities for 32 countries and everything that goes with the world cup in a country that is smaller than Connecticut, has 1 or 2 legit airports and TWO cities larger than Green Bay, WI.
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Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
I don't see CAF getting a full extra. At best I think UEFA only gets 1.5 (maybe they split the .5 with CAF?). I also think there is a strong likelihood that Oceania would remain at 0.5 based on their size/lack of success on the world stage; however, I do think one of the reasons for expanding would be to get Oceania a permanent spot.
I would guess they would seed the top 12, although I wouldn't be surprised if that was something that changed as FIFA saw fit. As for your UEFA qualification, that would only result in 13 spots. My guess is you meant 9 group winners instead of 8.
That is true about the additional training facilities, but I would guess that most countries capable of hosting a World Cup (read: not Qatar) wouldn't have a problem with that. Either way, extra strain on the host.
As for Qatar, that will be an interesting World Cup...if it actually comes to fruition.
I don't see CAF getting a full extra. At best I think UEFA only gets 1.5 (maybe they split the .5 with CAF?). I also think there is a strong likelihood that Oceania would remain at 0.5 based on their size/lack of success on the world stage; however, I do think one of the reasons for expanding would be to get Oceania a permanent spot.
Shirtless Guy said:
I would guess they would seed the top 12, although I wouldn't be surprised if that was something that changed as FIFA saw fit. As for your UEFA qualification, that would only result in 13 spots. My guess is you meant 9 group winners instead of 8.
Shirtless Guy said:
That is true about the additional training facilities, but I would guess that most countries capable of hosting a World Cup (read: not Qatar) wouldn't have a problem with that. Either way, extra strain on the host.
As for Qatar, that will be an interesting World Cup...if it actually comes to fruition.
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
Need? This is about money, not logistics.
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio
If you were to have uneven pool participants, that would also extend the World Cup. For 8 groups of 5, it would require 5 sets of gamedays, each of which required one team in the group to sit out one gameday. Playing 3 games/day, then 4 for the final game days, that would take 27 days to complete the group stages. That's almost double current. Even if you played 4 games/day, then it would still take 3 weeks (same as 6 groups of 6).
If it is about money, you go with 6 groups of 6, take the same amount of time and play an extra 10 games. By having 1 team sit out each game day that essentially costs FIFA money.
If you were to have uneven pool participants, that would also extend the World Cup. For 8 groups of 5, it would require 5 sets of gamedays, each of which required one team in the group to sit out one gameday. Playing 3 games/day, then 4 for the final game days, that would take 27 days to complete the group stages. That's almost double current. Even if you played 4 games/day, then it would still take 3 weeks (same as 6 groups of 6).
If it is about money, you go with 6 groups of 6, take the same amount of time and play an extra 10 games. By having 1 team sit out each game day that essentially costs FIFA money.
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