World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

Well, England is the only real possibility from the UK (although a potential joint bid could be possible), but I don't think they necessarily "deserve" it before the USA. UEFA will have hosted 3 Cups since CONCACAF in '94. Certainly CONCACAF "deserves" a cup before a fourth UEFA cup, no?

How many countries can really afford to host this thing? without riots and large amounts of public money invested specifically for this tournament? UEFA has to have the majority over the rest of the world. I think it would be fair to have a 3 cycle rotation of the Americas, UEFA, AFC/CAF/OFC. I know some won't agree but the Western Hemisphere really doesn't have that many potential hosts.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

How many countries can really afford to host this thing? without riots and large amounts of public money invested specifically for this tournament? UEFA has to have the majority over the rest of the world. I think it would be fair to have a 3 cycle rotation of the Americas, UEFA, AFC/CAF/OFC. I know some won't agree but the Western Hemisphere really doesn't have that many potential hosts.

I would be perfectly fine with that rotation. That would mean a Cup close to our time zone every 12 years.

Of course, that probably makes way too much sense for FIFA to ever go for it.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

I would be perfectly fine with that rotation. That would mean a Cup close to our time zone every 12 years.

Of course, that probably makes way too much sense for FIFA to ever go for it.

And there are still only about 6-8 legit hosts in the Western Hemisphere? USA, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, ??

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

And there are still only about 6-8 legit hosts in the Western Hemisphere? USA, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, ??

Colombia (who was supposed to hold the '86 Cup), Chile, Uruguay, Venezuela...maybe even Peru and Paraguay.

You could also have a variety of joint bids as well, but yeah, 8-10 legit host possibilities, with perhaps a few more if you count joint bids.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

How many countries can really afford to host this thing? without riots and large amounts of public money invested specifically for this tournament? UEFA has to have the majority over the rest of the world. I think it would be fair to have a 3 cycle rotation of the Americas, UEFA, AFC/CAF/OFC. I know some won't agree but the Western Hemisphere really doesn't have that many potential hosts.

How about this: Offer the number of hosting opportunities for a confederation in proportion to the number of bids that the confederation is offered into the tournament. UEFA receives approximately three times as many slots as AFC, CAF, CONMEBOL, and CONCACAF. You have a rotation of seven, and then 28 years later, the cycle starts again. Sorry to the OFC, but given their qualification spot is shared, it'll be quite a while before they get a chance to host.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

How about this: Offer the number of hosting opportunities for a confederation in proportion to the number of bids that the confederation is offered into the tournament. UEFA receives approximately three times as many slots as AFC, CAF, CONMEBOL, and CONCACAF. You have a rotation of seven, and then 28 years later, the cycle starts again. Sorry to the OFC, but given their qualification spot is shared, it'll be quite a while before they get a chance to host.

Well, qualification spots change, so it would be difficult to have a set rotation. Further, all it would likely do is ensure that the cup is in Europe more often than not, which is something that I was pleased to see FIFA get away from. My favorite set up was the rotation through each confederation. I am okay with the current set up preventing the previous two confederations that hosted from bidding. I would prefer that to your suggested set up, but I would prefer Shirtless Guy's proposal to the current set up.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

Well, qualification spots change, so it would be difficult to have a set rotation. Further, all it would likely do is ensure that the cup is in Europe more often than not, which is something that I was pleased to see FIFA get away from. My favorite set up was the rotation through each confederation. I am okay with the current set up preventing the previous two confederations that hosted from bidding. I would prefer that to your suggested set up, but I would prefer Shirtless Guy's proposal to the current set up.

How much do they change, though? And is this something that could be set up on a rotating basis, where if you're bidding for 2026 this year, you make it based upon the bids from that year and the previous six WC events (in this case, 2002-2026 since you have to count the first one)?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

How much do they change, though? And is this something that could be set up on a rotating basis, where if you're bidding for 2026 this year, you make it based upon the bids from that year and the previous six WC events (in this case, 1998-2026)?

Who knows? In another 20 years the tournament might be 48 teams or something.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

Who knows? In another 20 years the tournament might be 48 teams or something.

This is very true; after all, the women's event just expanded from 16 to 24. That is what makes it adaptable, though, as you're not limited to the last seven cups if the approximate ratios change.

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

I don't disagree with flag on America getting it when it's our turn, but when it's UEFA's, it needs to go to England. Platini hates the English so much that he'd let Hell host it first. Infrastructure is there. The stadia are there. They've handled the Olympics in recent memory and multiple Champions League finals. The Ruskies and Arabs bought the Cup, plain and simple. There's just so many forces against England and America at this point.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

How much do they change, though? And is this something that could be set up on a rotating basis, where if you're bidding for 2026 this year, you make it based upon the bids from that year and the previous six WC events (in this case, 2002-2026 since you have to count the first one)?

They change slightly.

For example:

2002 World Cup
- UEFA (13.5+1) - 13 spots + 1 Auto Qualifier (France - Defending Champion*) + 1 Playoff Spot (wound up with 15 spots, as Ireland ousted Iran to make the Cup)
- CONMEBOL (4.5) - 4 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (wound up with 5 spots, as Uruguay ousted Australia to make the Cup)
- CONCACAF (3) - 3 spots
- CAF (5) - 5 spots
- AFC (2.5+2) - 2 spots + 2 Auto Qualifiers (South Korea/Japan - Hosts) + 1 Playoff Spot (wound up with 4 spots, as Iran lost to Ireland)
- OFC (0.5) - 1 Playoff Spot (wound up with 0 spots, as Australia (then in the OFC) lost to Uruguay)

2006 World Cup
- UEFA (13+1) - 13 spots + 1 Auto Qualifier (Germany - Host)
- CAF (5) - 5 spots
- CONMEBOL (4.5) - 4 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (Uruguay lost to Australia in penalties)
- AFC (4.5) - 4 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (Bahrain lost to Trinidad and Tobago)
- CONCACAF (3.5) - 3 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (Trinidad and Tobago beat Bahrain to go to the Cup)
- OFC (0.5) - 1 Playoff Spot (Australia beat Uruguay in penalties to go to the Cup)

2010
- UEFA (13) - 13 spots
- CAF (5+1) - 5 spots + 1 Auto Qualifier (South Africa - Host)
- AFC (4.5) - 4 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (Bahrain lost to New Zealand)
- CONMEBOL (4.5) - 4 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (Uruguay beat Costa Rica to advance to the Cup)
- CONCACAF (3.5) - 3 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (Costa Rica lost to Uruguay)
- OFC (0.5) - 1 Playoff Spot (New Zealand beat Bahrain to go to the Cup)

2014
- UEFA (13) - 13 spots
- CAF (5) - 5 spots
- AFC (4.5) - 4 spots + 1 Playoff Spot
- CONMEBOL (4.5+1) - 4 spots + 1 Auto Qualifier (Brazil - Host) + 1 Playoff Spot
- CONCACAF (3.5) - 3 spots + 1 Playoff Spot
- OFC (0.5) - 1 Playoff Spot

*Defending Champion no longer receives an automatic bid

So, since 2002, there has not been much change. Basically, UEFA's Playoff Spot transferred to CONCACAF. Other than that, everything has remained the same...since 2002.

But, let's look at 1998 (the first year of 32 teams):
UEFA - 14+1 Spots (1 more spot than today)
CONMEBOL - 4+1** Spots (0.5 less spots than today)
CONCACAF - 3 Spots (0.5 less spots than today)
CAF - 5 Spots (same as today)
AFC - 3.5 Spots (1 less than today)
OFC - 0.5 Spots (same as today)

** Brazil auto-qualified as defending champion

Overall, not a lot has changed, but there are slight changes, especially based on who gets to host.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

I don't disagree with flag on America getting it when it's our turn, but when it's UEFA's, it needs to go to England. Platini hates the English so much that he'd let Hell host it first. Infrastructure is there. The stadia are there. They've handled the Olympics in recent memory and multiple Champions League finals. The Ruskies and Arabs bought the Cup, plain and simple. There's just so many forces against England and America at this point.

I completely agree. England deserves the next Cup in Europe. Assuming that UEFA will get the cup in 2034, Platini might be done with UEFA by the time that cup is selected (which I would guess would happen sometime around 2024-2026 and Platini would be in his late 60's-early 70's).

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

I completely agree. England deserves the next Cup in Europe. Assuming that UEFA will get the cup in 2034, Platini might be done with UEFA by the time that cup is selected (which I would guess would happen sometime around 2024-2026 and Platini would be in his late 60's-early 70's).

78 years will be too long for the place that practically invented the game to host it.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

74 years will be too long for the place that practically invented the game to host it.

Unfortunately, I don't see it happening any sooner given the current rules. UEFA cannot host in 2026, and there appears to be growing momentum for Uruguay (perhaps jointly with Argentina) to get the 100th Anniversary Cup in 2030.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

Overall, not a lot has changed, but there are slight changes, especially based on who gets to host.

Which makes jointly-hosted bids a bit problematic. With one host, there are 31 spots up for grabs; with a co-host, only 30. That's a fairly sizeable proportion of total slots.

I don't see the tournament expanding beyond 32 teams for awhile, given (a) the logistical difficulties hosts already have with 32, and (b) there already is a well-established system of qualifying rounds. There are actually more teams in FIFA than there are nations in the UN.

From the FIFA website:
CAF - 52
AFC - 43
UEFA - 53
CONCACEF - 35
CONMEBOL - 10
OFC - 11

This adds up to 204.

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

Unfortunately, I don't see it happening any sooner given the current rules. UEFA cannot host in 2026, and there appears to be growing momentum for Uruguay (perhaps jointly with Argentina) to get the 100th Anniversary Cup in 2030.

I hear that as well.

I did a little research on the stadiums that can be used in England. Many of the capacities are above 30k and I tried to not have repeats in certain areas. (the Emirates in London, Etihad in Manchester, etc.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_stadiums_in_England

1. Wembley (London, used for final)
2. Old Trafford (Manchester)
3. St. James (Newcastle)
4. Stadium of Light (Sunderland... although it may be too close to Newcastle)
5. Anfield/Stanley Park (Liverpool)
6. Villa Park (Birmingham)
7. Hillborough (Sheffield)
8. Elland Road (Leeds)
9. Pride Park (Derby)
10. St. Mary's (Southampton)
11. Ricoh Arena (Coventry)
12. King Power (Leicester)

All are over 31k. Heck if Scotland wants to get in on it, they can offer Hampden Park, Celtic Park or Ibrox.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

They change slightly.

For example:

2002 World Cup
- UEFA (13.5+1) - 13 spots + 1 Auto Qualifier (France - Defending Champion*) + 1 Playoff Spot (wound up with 15 spots, as Ireland ousted Iran to make the Cup)
- CONMEBOL (4.5) - 4 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (wound up with 5 spots, as Uruguay ousted Australia to make the Cup)
- CONCACAF (3) - 3 spots
- CAF (5) - 5 spots
- AFC (2.5+2) - 2 spots + 2 Auto Qualifiers (South Korea/Japan - Hosts) + 1 Playoff Spot (wound up with 4 spots, as Iran lost to Ireland)
- OFC (0.5) - 1 Playoff Spot (wound up with 0 spots, as Australia (then in the OFC) lost to Uruguay)

2006 World Cup
- UEFA (13+1) - 13 spots + 1 Auto Qualifier (Germany - Host)
- CAF (5) - 5 spots
- CONMEBOL (4.5) - 4 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (Uruguay lost to Australia in penalties)
- AFC (4.5) - 4 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (Bahrain lost to Trinidad and Tobago)
- CONCACAF (3.5) - 3 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (Trinidad and Tobago beat Bahrain to go to the Cup)
- OFC (0.5) - 1 Playoff Spot (Australia beat Uruguay in penalties to go to the Cup)

2010
- UEFA (13) - 13 spots
- CAF (5+1) - 5 spots + 1 Auto Qualifier (South Africa - Host)
- AFC (4.5) - 4 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (Bahrain lost to New Zealand)
- CONMEBOL (4.5) - 4 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (Uruguay beat Costa Rica to advance to the Cup)
- CONCACAF (3.5) - 3 spots + 1 Playoff Spot (Costa Rica lost to Uruguay)
- OFC (0.5) - 1 Playoff Spot (New Zealand beat Bahrain to go to the Cup)

2014
- UEFA (13) - 13 spots
- CAF (5) - 5 spots
- AFC (4.5) - 4 spots + 1 Playoff Spot
- CONMEBOL (4.5+1) - 4 spots + 1 Auto Qualifier (Brazil - Host) + 1 Playoff Spot
- CONCACAF (3.5) - 3 spots + 1 Playoff Spot
- OFC (0.5) - 1 Playoff Spot

*Defending Champion no longer receives an automatic bid

So, since 2002, there has not been much change. Basically, UEFA's Playoff Spot transferred to CONCACAF. Other than that, everything has remained the same...since 2002.

But, let's look at 1998 (the first year of 32 teams):
UEFA - 14+1 Spots (1 more spot than today)
CONMEBOL - 4+1** Spots (0.5 less spots than today)
CONCACAF - 3 Spots (0.5 less spots than today)
CAF - 5 Spots (same as today)
AFC - 3.5 Spots (1 less than today)
OFC - 0.5 Spots (same as today)

** Brazil auto-qualified as defending champion

Overall, not a lot has changed, but there are slight changes, especially based on who gets to host.

Fair enough. With the formula I recommended, I should add that I threw out a few of the qualifying spots, such as the ones that belong to the host and the shared spots that qualify by playoff (hence the .5). I didn't include defending champion as that isn't criteria today, but had it been, that would have been thrown out as well. If we throw those out, it'd be fairly close.

 

[pirate]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

I'd get out of the equitable rotation conceopt and put it in countries that can afford to have the stadiums, have a use for them afterward, are big enough to handle the WC and are safe enough to handle the visitors. If that reduces it to fewer countries, so be it. It is every 4 years, not like they'b be back to any one destination in less than 20 years.

I think it is a false promise that the country will benefit greatly from tourism etc. They also spend millions on stadia, police, infrastructure etc. I'm sure some countries do fine, others probably cook the books to make sure nobody knows it was a huge mistake 12 years prior to bid on the event etc.

It does nothing for the sport to leave a bunch of hulking white elephants. Sure, the public is focused on country X for a few weeks, but does it really spur long-term change in visitation? Anyone you know go to Africa last year because they hosted the world cup recently?

If need be, develop the co-host concept and have regions or countries co-host in the more typical locations, sharing in the pomp and circumstance, the funding and the economics of the tournament itself. Spending all of that money to build stadiums is an obnoxious waste of money, if they want to help these other countries, there has to be a better way.

I don't think the WC takes on the identity of the location like the olympics do...every event is the same sport, most viewers are probably unawre of which stadium the game is in after 5 minutes.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

Brazil - Uruguay now tied 1 - 1 in 67th minute of first Confederations' Cup semi-final.

EDIT: Final score Brazil 2, Uruguay 1. According to the live blog, two assists to Neymar.

 

[pirate]

Re: World Soccer XXIII - "Pay" Up Pompey?

Brazil - Uruguay now tied 1 - 1 in 67th minute of first Confederations' Cup semi-final.

EDIT: Final score Brazil 2, Uruguay 1. According to the live blog, two assists to Neymar.

well, that saves 90 minutes tonight.