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Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
- Thread starter myStuff
- Start date
papulaisle
Registered User
Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
pokechecker,
Jung found that the primary American 'archetype'- roughly, what persona was most favored by the majority of respondents/test participants, was the ... an Indian ... native American ... indigenous native ... and, I believe, specifically, the Eastern Woodland Indian.
Most of us in our dreams want to have been Indians- Eastern Woodland Indians, more exactly.
Dartmouth no longer is, "The Indians". East is closed, in that respect. UND was last hold-out, say (or refuge for us).
And what better team symbol (for an, 'archetype'); the, "Fighting Sioux"?
Wow. I'm ready!
Is there a better symbol of the American Indian, say? Maybe the romance, if I have it right, of Oglala, Nez Perce, Ojibway, et al ... the words, is a part of the attraction. I think so. But is/was, I think, more rather, the life style. Free (say)!
Read, Francis Parkman even seven volumes on the people here when Europeans initially arrived:
"France and England in North America".
Thus an answer for you.
That is the American male, too- I believe (only).
As opposed to female. But no matter once the concept got 'rolling'.
No "team" in USA/Canada that I know of has a symbol for the women and a symbol for the men. Perhaps is time.
Ahem. I love women. But I wonder as to their, 'archetype'.
Do not know if on this Jung was (appropriately/smartly) mum.
Anyone?
pokechecker,
Jung found that the primary American 'archetype'- roughly, what persona was most favored by the majority of respondents/test participants, was the ... an Indian ... native American ... indigenous native ... and, I believe, specifically, the Eastern Woodland Indian.
Most of us in our dreams want to have been Indians- Eastern Woodland Indians, more exactly.
Dartmouth no longer is, "The Indians". East is closed, in that respect. UND was last hold-out, say (or refuge for us).
And what better team symbol (for an, 'archetype'); the, "Fighting Sioux"?
Wow. I'm ready!
Is there a better symbol of the American Indian, say? Maybe the romance, if I have it right, of Oglala, Nez Perce, Ojibway, et al ... the words, is a part of the attraction. I think so. But is/was, I think, more rather, the life style. Free (say)!
Read, Francis Parkman even seven volumes on the people here when Europeans initially arrived:
"France and England in North America".
Thus an answer for you.
That is the American male, too- I believe (only).
As opposed to female. But no matter once the concept got 'rolling'.
No "team" in USA/Canada that I know of has a symbol for the women and a symbol for the men. Perhaps is time.
Ahem. I love women. But I wonder as to their, 'archetype'.
Do not know if on this Jung was (appropriately/smartly) mum.
Anyone?
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
Well pokechecker...Welcome to the boards...Your controversial comments even invokes a response from the board icon known as "Paps".
pokechecker,
Jung found that the primary American 'archetype'- roughly, what persona was most favored by the majority of respondents/test participants, was the ... an Indian ... native American ... indigenous native ... and, I believe, specifically, the Eastern Woodland Indian.
Most of us in our dreams want to have been Indians- Eastern Woodland Indians, more exactly.
Dartmouth no longer is, "The Indians". East is closed, in that respect. UND was last hold-out, say (or refuge for us).
And what better team symbol (for an, 'archetype'); the, "Fighting Sioux"?
Wow. I'm ready!
Is there a better symbol of the American Indian, say? Maybe the romance, if I have it right, of Oglala, Nez Perce, Ojibway, et al ... the words, is a part of the attraction. I think so. But is/was, I think, more rather, the life style. Free (say)!
Read, Francis Parkman even seven volumes on the people here when Europeans initially arrived:
"France and England in North America".
Thus an answer for you.
That is the American male, too- I believe (only).
As opposed to female. But no matter once the concept got 'rolling'.
No "team" in USA/Canada that I know of has a symbol for the women and a symbol for the men. Perhaps is time.
Ahem. I love women. But I wonder as to their, 'archetype'.
Do not know if on this Jung was (appropriately/smartly) mum.
Anyone?
Well pokechecker...Welcome to the boards...Your controversial comments even invokes a response from the board icon known as "Paps".
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
ARM...great points, good discussion. While you are much more familiar with the history of the game at the collegiate level, I do have a few additional comments......
The main stream media/general populous ignores this sport for the most part. except during the olympics. Admittedly, a bit more focus is spent on the sport in the "State of hockey", and I agree that in general, whether the east or west wins, that won't change much. The notion that "It would be good for the sport if the east wins" is more about creating a more level playing field in attracting recruits, to create more balance between the various leagues. That in itself would benefit the level of play and competition and the depth of the sport, which continues to grow, albeit at a much slower pace than 10 years ago. JMO.
This being an Olympic year, chances are better than most year that there could be a winner from the East. Most recent Olympic year is when the east got the closest in history (Triple OT).
ARM...great points, good discussion. While you are much more familiar with the history of the game at the collegiate level, I do have a few additional comments......
The main stream media/general populous ignores this sport for the most part. except during the olympics. Admittedly, a bit more focus is spent on the sport in the "State of hockey", and I agree that in general, whether the east or west wins, that won't change much. The notion that "It would be good for the sport if the east wins" is more about creating a more level playing field in attracting recruits, to create more balance between the various leagues. That in itself would benefit the level of play and competition and the depth of the sport, which continues to grow, albeit at a much slower pace than 10 years ago. JMO.
This being an Olympic year, chances are better than most year that there could be a winner from the East. Most recent Olympic year is when the east got the closest in history (Triple OT).
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ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
UMD rose to prominence in part due to Miller's international connections. That has lessened over time as these players have started attending a wider variety of schools. Wisconsin got a boost from Mark Johnson's Olympic fame. Minnesota'a advantage is that it is the first choice of the majority of the home-grown players. I don't see a NCAA championship by another league changing any of those to a measurable extent. North Dakota is now getting better recruits, and that certainly isn't due to any past NCAA success.
If there is something to your theory, I'd need more convincing.
I'm not following why the East is at a disadvantage in term of recruiting and needs the playing field leveled. Many of those schools had a large head start in building reputations: Providence, UNH, Northeastern, Harvard, Brown, and Princeton to name a few. We always hear how the richest single recruiting region is Ontario in general and the GTA specifically. Over the years, eastern schools have had first pick at most of that talent, in large part due to an edge in proximity to it. Similarly, most of the best players from Quebec have stayed in the East.
UMD rose to prominence in part due to Miller's international connections. That has lessened over time as these players have started attending a wider variety of schools. Wisconsin got a boost from Mark Johnson's Olympic fame. Minnesota'a advantage is that it is the first choice of the majority of the home-grown players. I don't see a NCAA championship by another league changing any of those to a measurable extent. North Dakota is now getting better recruits, and that certainly isn't due to any past NCAA success.
If there is something to your theory, I'd need more convincing.
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
There are a lot of factors to consider, I'll just name a few:
1 - Sure there is a great talent pool in Ontario, but there are also many more teams in the east then in the west, spreading the talent pool out over a larger set of teams. A greater number of teams leads to more dilution, exactly the reason why some teams in the east are less hardened by a tough schedule compared to the WCHA. I'm convinced that the tough WCHA schedule is one of the seasons the champ comes out of that group.
2 - While some Ivies run great programs, they will always have a hard time competing head to head on an equal bases with the upper echelon D1 teams. They simply cannot build a team deep enough with a large talent pool of players, also good enough academically to get in these schools. The days that Ivy was first choice for many top end players are long gone.
There are a lot of factors to consider, I'll just name a few:
1 - Sure there is a great talent pool in Ontario, but there are also many more teams in the east then in the west, spreading the talent pool out over a larger set of teams. A greater number of teams leads to more dilution, exactly the reason why some teams in the east are less hardened by a tough schedule compared to the WCHA. I'm convinced that the tough WCHA schedule is one of the seasons the champ comes out of that group.
2 - While some Ivies run great programs, they will always have a hard time competing head to head on an equal bases with the upper echelon D1 teams. They simply cannot build a team deep enough with a large talent pool of players, also good enough academically to get in these schools. The days that Ivy was first choice for many top end players are long gone.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
Still, I think your schedule argument is closer to the truth. BU has come closest to winning a championship of any program from the two leagues exclusively from the East over the last three years, and the Terriers are also the team that has made the greatest effort to schedule as many top WCHA opponents as possible. Harvard and Dartmouth once were the two schools that led the way in that regard, but whether it is due to cost, some strategic decision, or the rise of Hockey East, both are now content to look for nonconference games closer to home.
True to a certain extent, but the best of the talent pool still winds up on a small number of top Eastern teams. Cornell and BC don't lose a lot of players to Union and Maine. If your argument was a major factor, then I think that the West would see similar success on the D-III side, but the exact opposite is true. There are more D-III programs than D-I in the West, but the same is true for the East, although probably not proportionately so.
I'd agree with that, but I don't see the league as being tougher because of some inherent recruiting edge. Look at all of the kids from Minnesota that are heading to Providence, rather than bolstering the depth of the WCHA teams as a whole, despite the lack of an NCAA title in Hockey East. Players will go to a school that actively recruits them.
How many national team players does Cornell need in order to compete? Look at Harvard's incoming class this season. These teams can still recruit talent in large enough quantities to contend. The Big Red fell in the most recent tournament to Mercyhurst, a team that has managed to find success despite not having a tough league schedule as an advantage.
Still, I think your schedule argument is closer to the truth. BU has come closest to winning a championship of any program from the two leagues exclusively from the East over the last three years, and the Terriers are also the team that has made the greatest effort to schedule as many top WCHA opponents as possible. Harvard and Dartmouth once were the two schools that led the way in that regard, but whether it is due to cost, some strategic decision, or the rise of Hockey East, both are now content to look for nonconference games closer to home.
brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
Man you North Dakota fans sure are delusional.
"This USA Hockey poll is nonsense, we are way too low, surely the USCHO voters will realize that we are #2 in the country!"
HA HA HAAAAA
Man you North Dakota fans sure are delusional.
"This USA Hockey poll is nonsense, we are way too low, surely the USCHO voters will realize that we are #2 in the country!"
HA HA HAAAAA
pokechecker
Banned
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
I'm glad the "ignore" didn't work for me, you ARE extremely funny, village idiot funny
I'm glad the "ignore" didn't work for me, you ARE extremely funny, village idiot funny
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
You underestimate him. He's more a metropolis idiot.
You underestimate him. He's more a metropolis idiot.
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
That reference reminded me of this gem I ran across the other day:
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1234214_10202011356786887_1800223385_n.jpg
P.S.....I notice that "IMG" tags no longer appear to work in terms of displaying pictures inline. Is that a new "feature" of USCHO, or just my browser....Just wondering.
That reference reminded me of this gem I ran across the other day:
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1234214_10202011356786887_1800223385_n.jpg
P.S.....I notice that "IMG" tags no longer appear to work in terms of displaying pictures inline. Is that a new "feature" of USCHO, or just my browser....Just wondering.
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
Really great discussion by you guys, thanks! I agree with OnMaa about the dilution effect but overall tend to agree with ARM and his points....I, myself am not well enough versed in the women's history as I only joined the fun about a decade ago, while joining the men's fun when we had the ECAC and 17 teams in it!! I try and stay away from the pre-college recruiting stuff since I worry about the current edition of the teams enough. It does seem though that in the women's game, whomever coaches the National and/or Olympic teams gets the higher valued recruits, as they follow said coach when they like them. Fair or not, it seems to be the case. ARM's points on Minny and UMD seem valid enough, as I personally have had enough of UMD after 3 straight years of playoff losses! Anyway, as much as I hate to agree with any BC Alum, Tony is right that the Eagles should walk into the title again, with BU hurting a bit....my hope is that the Wildcats can once again get back into the conversation this year, even as a spoiler come playoffs, so that all our prognostications go kaput!! Cheers...
Really great discussion by you guys, thanks! I agree with OnMaa about the dilution effect but overall tend to agree with ARM and his points....I, myself am not well enough versed in the women's history as I only joined the fun about a decade ago, while joining the men's fun when we had the ECAC and 17 teams in it!! I try and stay away from the pre-college recruiting stuff since I worry about the current edition of the teams enough. It does seem though that in the women's game, whomever coaches the National and/or Olympic teams gets the higher valued recruits, as they follow said coach when they like them. Fair or not, it seems to be the case. ARM's points on Minny and UMD seem valid enough, as I personally have had enough of UMD after 3 straight years of playoff losses! Anyway, as much as I hate to agree with any BC Alum, Tony is right that the Eagles should walk into the title again, with BU hurting a bit....my hope is that the Wildcats can once again get back into the conversation this year, even as a spoiler come playoffs, so that all our prognostications go kaput!! Cheers...
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TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Hey now, I can't take all the credit! I'm just paraphrasing the board's top ranked jester:
pokechecker
Banned
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
the WCHA does indeed have a recruiting edge, the best players want to play for the best teams, certainly having won all the titles give the WCHA teams an edge, and in fact, the WCHA men have won the majority of titles, that long mens history makes a reputation even for the women's league that tends to attract a greater percentage of the best Canadian players (and International, and US national (non-local) players) than you would expect.
I too agree that dilution plays a part, with only 8 teams in the "west" it is easy to differentiate who is who. There are so many teams in the east it is more difficult to stand out from everyone else.
the WCHA does indeed have a recruiting edge, the best players want to play for the best teams, certainly having won all the titles give the WCHA teams an edge, and in fact, the WCHA men have won the majority of titles, that long mens history makes a reputation even for the women's league that tends to attract a greater percentage of the best Canadian players (and International, and US national (non-local) players) than you would expect.
I too agree that dilution plays a part, with only 8 teams in the "west" it is easy to differentiate who is who. There are so many teams in the east it is more difficult to stand out from everyone else.
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OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
Actually the dilution has two key effects:
1 - Top players spread around to more teams, although as you indicated, the top players will typically venture to the top teams
2 - Dilution leads to overall weaker competition on average, which leads to teams being less ready for top competition when it counts.
Actually the dilution has two key effects:
1 - Top players spread around to more teams, although as you indicated, the top players will typically venture to the top teams
2 - Dilution leads to overall weaker competition on average, which leads to teams being less ready for top competition when it counts.
AlwaysZone8
Veteran User
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
Erie Times story today...
Tougher schedule would help Mercyhurst women's hockey
Victor Fernandes
Michael Sisti and his Mercyhurst women's hockey team view every opponent on their schedule as a challenge.
In some cases, they are challenging.
They open the 2013-14 season this weekend at Minnesota State Mankato, which nearly swept a two-game series out there two years ago. They face two ranked teams -- a two-game series at Clarkson Oct. 18-19 and two games with Cornell Jan. 10-11 at Mercyhurst Ice Center.
The Lakers face Ohio State, which received votes in the initial USCHO.com Division I poll, in their home opener Oct. 5. College Hockey America rival Robert Morris has given the Lakers trouble the past couple of years. Unranked St. Lawrence also should give them a good test in a two-game series in Erie Nov. 26-27.
But after those 13 games, which teams on the 33-game schedule will give the Lakers the battles they need to prepare for the postseason?
Providence? The Lakers have won four straight meetings with the Friars by a combined 19-3 score. Maine? The Black Bears had a 5-24-4 record a season ago.
Syracuse? The Orange are winless in 23 career meetings with the Lakers. The rest of the CHA? Lindenwood, Penn State and Rochester Institute of Technology finished last season with a combined 30-68-10 record. Lindenwood begins only its third year in NCAA Division I. Penn State and RIT joined D-I last year.
So expect the Lakers to win at least 25 games for the seventh time in eight years and 13th time in 15 seasons under Sisti, the only coach in program history.
And expect that win total to be enough for the Lakers to extend their record of consecutive NCAA Tournament appearances to nine in March.
Then expect the Lakers to face their toughest opponents of the season in the national playoffs. That's a problem, and it has kept Mercyhurst from adding its first national championship in women's hockey to its already rich history.
The Lakers roll through the competition every year. They also rebound quickly from the occasional hiccup, often against less skilled and experienced teams. But there are no inferior teams at tournament time. These teams are just as good, if not better.
That's when the Lakers could run into Wisconsin and Minnesota, who have won a combined eight national championships and headline a conference -- the WCHA -- that has claimed all 13 titles in the sport's history.
Then there's schools like Boston College, Boston University and Cornell, which have grown into perennial title contenders in recent years.
Except for Clarkson and Cornell, as well as four games with BC the past two seasons, the Lakers haven't consistently played these high-profile schools in the regular season.
So, perhaps, the Lakers aren't as ready to face that level of competition as they expect to be.
Don't blame Sisti for this. He will play any school anytime and anywhere. But the Lakers can't beat any school anytime and anywhere.
Schools from the WCHA, Hockey East and ECAC, which already play a difficult conference schedule, might choose to shy away from playing the Lakers in non-conference games.
The Lakers play whoever they can get.
As Sisti said Tuesday, "we'll play them and see what happens."
Erie Times story today...
Tougher schedule would help Mercyhurst women's hockey
Victor Fernandes
Michael Sisti and his Mercyhurst women's hockey team view every opponent on their schedule as a challenge.
In some cases, they are challenging.
They open the 2013-14 season this weekend at Minnesota State Mankato, which nearly swept a two-game series out there two years ago. They face two ranked teams -- a two-game series at Clarkson Oct. 18-19 and two games with Cornell Jan. 10-11 at Mercyhurst Ice Center.
The Lakers face Ohio State, which received votes in the initial USCHO.com Division I poll, in their home opener Oct. 5. College Hockey America rival Robert Morris has given the Lakers trouble the past couple of years. Unranked St. Lawrence also should give them a good test in a two-game series in Erie Nov. 26-27.
But after those 13 games, which teams on the 33-game schedule will give the Lakers the battles they need to prepare for the postseason?
Providence? The Lakers have won four straight meetings with the Friars by a combined 19-3 score. Maine? The Black Bears had a 5-24-4 record a season ago.
Syracuse? The Orange are winless in 23 career meetings with the Lakers. The rest of the CHA? Lindenwood, Penn State and Rochester Institute of Technology finished last season with a combined 30-68-10 record. Lindenwood begins only its third year in NCAA Division I. Penn State and RIT joined D-I last year.
So expect the Lakers to win at least 25 games for the seventh time in eight years and 13th time in 15 seasons under Sisti, the only coach in program history.
And expect that win total to be enough for the Lakers to extend their record of consecutive NCAA Tournament appearances to nine in March.
Then expect the Lakers to face their toughest opponents of the season in the national playoffs. That's a problem, and it has kept Mercyhurst from adding its first national championship in women's hockey to its already rich history.
The Lakers roll through the competition every year. They also rebound quickly from the occasional hiccup, often against less skilled and experienced teams. But there are no inferior teams at tournament time. These teams are just as good, if not better.
That's when the Lakers could run into Wisconsin and Minnesota, who have won a combined eight national championships and headline a conference -- the WCHA -- that has claimed all 13 titles in the sport's history.
Then there's schools like Boston College, Boston University and Cornell, which have grown into perennial title contenders in recent years.
Except for Clarkson and Cornell, as well as four games with BC the past two seasons, the Lakers haven't consistently played these high-profile schools in the regular season.
So, perhaps, the Lakers aren't as ready to face that level of competition as they expect to be.
Don't blame Sisti for this. He will play any school anytime and anywhere. But the Lakers can't beat any school anytime and anywhere.
Schools from the WCHA, Hockey East and ECAC, which already play a difficult conference schedule, might choose to shy away from playing the Lakers in non-conference games.
The Lakers play whoever they can get.
As Sisti said Tuesday, "we'll play them and see what happens."
pokechecker
Banned
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14
after last year, shame on the schools who schedule Lindenwood and not Mercyhurst
if you are a bubble team and get passed over for the NCAA's
or end up on the road when you should probably be hosting
it is your own fault
after last year, shame on the schools who schedule Lindenwood and not Mercyhurst
if you are a bubble team and get passed over for the NCAA's
or end up on the road when you should probably be hosting
it is your own fault