Chuck Schwartz
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Cool aid? Like ice packs or something? Mine look ok.
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Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
- Thread starter Chuck Schwartz
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Cool aid? Like ice packs or something? Mine look ok.
goldenpuck
New member
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
point well taken - I now recall hearing of how that went down - Mark Osiecki's departure may have played into that also at the time
point well taken - I now recall hearing of how that went down - Mark Osiecki's departure may have played into that also at the time
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Gurtholfin
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Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
Don't you think "coming late to the party" (Chuck's words) on a kid who's right under Eaves' nose is worthy of complaint?
Seems inexcusable to me.
Now if we just weren't interested, fine. But Chuck seems to have knowledge that we were and just dragged our feet too long or made assumptions.
Don't you think "coming late to the party" (Chuck's words) on a kid who's right under Eaves' nose is worthy of complaint?
Seems inexcusable to me.
Now if we just weren't interested, fine. But Chuck seems to have knowledge that we were and just dragged our feet too long or made assumptions.
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Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
Sure...It's okay to be frustrated that a kid we had some level of interest in chose to go play for a dreaded rival. I would be way more concerned if he were a '96 (or even better a '95 ) and capable of playing D1 next year where we have a decent quantity of slots to fill out yet. As a '97...Baker, he likely arrives to college at the same time we have Freytag, Boesser, and Malone slated to come in at forward. It is probably pointless to get into an arguement on who of those 4 you would want to have as everyone has made their choices at this point and only time will tell.
Gophers are in a little different cycle numbers wise then the Badgers. Gophers have 5 junior forward this year, and I don't see more then one that is a flight risk for early departure. There is a real high probability the Gophers will be replacing 5 or more (depending on early departures) the year Baker is a possibility to come in. Meanwhile, the Badger have 6 seniors that will all get replaced before next season by someone (plus a possibility it is even more if Labate or Kerdilies leave). If you bring in 6 or 7 freshman next fall, and have 3 already lined up the following year....there simply are not many forward spots available in that class and you need to be pretty careful with who you are offering and or accept. My hunch (and that is worth about as much as the Eaves takes in state kids for granted assumptions) is Baker was being monitored and the staff was interested in seeing him actually develop into more of a sure thing rather then assuming or hoping his progression would continue after they potentially offered and he accepted a scholarship. Gophers need more numbers in that class and can afford to cast a broader net then the Badgers have been able to.
Sure...It's okay to be frustrated that a kid we had some level of interest in chose to go play for a dreaded rival. I would be way more concerned if he were a '96 (or even better a '95 ) and capable of playing D1 next year where we have a decent quantity of slots to fill out yet. As a '97...Baker, he likely arrives to college at the same time we have Freytag, Boesser, and Malone slated to come in at forward. It is probably pointless to get into an arguement on who of those 4 you would want to have as everyone has made their choices at this point and only time will tell.
Gophers are in a little different cycle numbers wise then the Badgers. Gophers have 5 junior forward this year, and I don't see more then one that is a flight risk for early departure. There is a real high probability the Gophers will be replacing 5 or more (depending on early departures) the year Baker is a possibility to come in. Meanwhile, the Badger have 6 seniors that will all get replaced before next season by someone (plus a possibility it is even more if Labate or Kerdilies leave). If you bring in 6 or 7 freshman next fall, and have 3 already lined up the following year....there simply are not many forward spots available in that class and you need to be pretty careful with who you are offering and or accept. My hunch (and that is worth about as much as the Eaves takes in state kids for granted assumptions) is Baker was being monitored and the staff was interested in seeing him actually develop into more of a sure thing rather then assuming or hoping his progression would continue after they potentially offered and he accepted a scholarship. Gophers need more numbers in that class and can afford to cast a broader net then the Badgers have been able to.
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Gurtholfin
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Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
Sounds plausible and seems like a good explanation. I really don't have an issue with him going to the Gophers - which is pretty surprising.
My issue is with the phrase "came late to the party."
If that is more than simple speculation, then there's a problem.
Sounds plausible and seems like a good explanation. I really don't have an issue with him going to the Gophers - which is pretty surprising.
My issue is with the phrase "came late to the party."
If that is more than simple speculation, then there's a problem.
Chuck Schwartz
New member
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
If one wants to argue Wisconsin needed to go after Baker harder (and earlier) in the process because you personally feel his talent warrants that, then you're certainly entitled to that opinion. If you want to argue Wisconsin handled Baker's recruitment wrong for what the coaching staff believes to be his talent level, that's another story.
Wisconsin has 2-3 forward spots in the '15 recruiting class. They also likely have 2-3 in the '16 recruiting class. Seamus Malone -- who looks like he'll end up being one of the top recruits in the country -- will take up one of the '15 spots. After that, the coaching staff went after Brock Boeser, who is progressing like he'll end up being a top '15 forward as well. In that short time frame after Boeser's commitment, they were also going hard after Matthew Freytag and Luke Kunin. Freytag is still up in the air on '15 or '16, and Kunin is a '16 but may accelerate in school to become a '15.
For better or worse, that's who the staff went after before Baker. That's their opinion on those kids. If you think they are wrong on their evaluation, you're entitled to that opinion. But it's hard to argue their strategy when you're not in that room to know what they are thinking.
One of the biggest concerns is recruiting a dud. It's really hard to blame the coaching staff for taking their time and not going all in on a kid before they feel they are ready. Just because they aren't knocking someone's door down doesn't mean they aren't following their progress and doing their due diligence. When they are comfortable making an offer and going after someone, they will. They are in a position where they can be patient with some of these kids so they don't make another Tyler Lapic. If someone commits in the meantime, there will be others available.
Things change rapidly in the recruiting world. Boston College wasn't even in Ian McCoshen's final four and that was where he eventually ended up. Hell, I was told a month ago it was most likely that Baker would end up at Boston University. When I talked to his coach this week, they didn't even get brought up as a possibility.
Baker's a good player and will be one at Minnesota as well. I want to make sure that's noted, that I'm not dissing him at all. But it's not like he's a Kessel talent or something, and it's debatable he's better than any of the current commits. I know I personally wouldn't trade Malone, Boeser or Kunin for him. Freytag is probably a tossup. Nothing to lose sleep over, there's plenty of other talented kids out there. I can guarantee you that none of us here know even close to half of what goes into this process.
If one wants to argue Wisconsin needed to go after Baker harder (and earlier) in the process because you personally feel his talent warrants that, then you're certainly entitled to that opinion. If you want to argue Wisconsin handled Baker's recruitment wrong for what the coaching staff believes to be his talent level, that's another story.
Wisconsin has 2-3 forward spots in the '15 recruiting class. They also likely have 2-3 in the '16 recruiting class. Seamus Malone -- who looks like he'll end up being one of the top recruits in the country -- will take up one of the '15 spots. After that, the coaching staff went after Brock Boeser, who is progressing like he'll end up being a top '15 forward as well. In that short time frame after Boeser's commitment, they were also going hard after Matthew Freytag and Luke Kunin. Freytag is still up in the air on '15 or '16, and Kunin is a '16 but may accelerate in school to become a '15.
For better or worse, that's who the staff went after before Baker. That's their opinion on those kids. If you think they are wrong on their evaluation, you're entitled to that opinion. But it's hard to argue their strategy when you're not in that room to know what they are thinking.
One of the biggest concerns is recruiting a dud. It's really hard to blame the coaching staff for taking their time and not going all in on a kid before they feel they are ready. Just because they aren't knocking someone's door down doesn't mean they aren't following their progress and doing their due diligence. When they are comfortable making an offer and going after someone, they will. They are in a position where they can be patient with some of these kids so they don't make another Tyler Lapic. If someone commits in the meantime, there will be others available.
Things change rapidly in the recruiting world. Boston College wasn't even in Ian McCoshen's final four and that was where he eventually ended up. Hell, I was told a month ago it was most likely that Baker would end up at Boston University. When I talked to his coach this week, they didn't even get brought up as a possibility.
Baker's a good player and will be one at Minnesota as well. I want to make sure that's noted, that I'm not dissing him at all. But it's not like he's a Kessel talent or something, and it's debatable he's better than any of the current commits. I know I personally wouldn't trade Malone, Boeser or Kunin for him. Freytag is probably a tossup. Nothing to lose sleep over, there's plenty of other talented kids out there. I can guarantee you that none of us here know even close to half of what goes into this process.
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Chuck Schwartz
New member
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
98-born Tyson Jost is in the lineup for Penticton Vees tonight. Would be a premier NCAA recruit if he goes that route. 1st round WHL pick.
Also, Shuey will be in Edmonton this weekend for the Alberta Junior Hockey League showcase.
98-born Tyson Jost is in the lineup for Penticton Vees tonight. Would be a premier NCAA recruit if he goes that route. 1st round WHL pick.
Also, Shuey will be in Edmonton this weekend for the Alberta Junior Hockey League showcase.
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
It is a fair assessment to make when looking at it in terms of team needs. People often forget that when looking at recruiting classes and think like it's uniform across the board. Which is why I sometimes think recruiting class rankings are a little overrated. The Gophers don't have any major needs (at this point anyway) at forward in 2014 and it's been known for a while. That's why they've really not been heavy players for guys that were highly likely going to be 2014 recruits.
At the same time, a lot of these kids can be flexible. As we know, it isn't unheard of for many of them to get that extra year of juniors after HS. So it can vary.
People need to realize that not everything they read is based in reality. A lot of times you see a player's "list" of candidate schools mentioned (either before or after commitment) but the truth it is occasionally gamesmanship to see certain schools listed. I know of one example in which one school knew a good player was likely going to commit to another school that he had personal ties to but wanted to make sure the other school didn't get a discount based on those personal ties. The decision was coming soon so the rival school has their top assistant go scout the kid and show him extra attention with the sole intention of driving up the price for his likely destination. The team that the kid has ties to thinks the rival school is very interested (and the reputation of that school threatens them) so they end up upping their original offer by a healthy amount. The kid ends up committing to the school he has ties to but at a much greater cost. All because of a perceived threat. If you asked that kid who was interested, he'd likely name the one school that drove up the price but not realize that it was a ploy. Sometimes the strategy is if you know a kid is going to a certain place, you make sure they pay for it.
It is a fair assessment to make when looking at it in terms of team needs. People often forget that when looking at recruiting classes and think like it's uniform across the board. Which is why I sometimes think recruiting class rankings are a little overrated. The Gophers don't have any major needs (at this point anyway) at forward in 2014 and it's been known for a while. That's why they've really not been heavy players for guys that were highly likely going to be 2014 recruits.
At the same time, a lot of these kids can be flexible. As we know, it isn't unheard of for many of them to get that extra year of juniors after HS. So it can vary.
People need to realize that not everything they read is based in reality. A lot of times you see a player's "list" of candidate schools mentioned (either before or after commitment) but the truth it is occasionally gamesmanship to see certain schools listed. I know of one example in which one school knew a good player was likely going to commit to another school that he had personal ties to but wanted to make sure the other school didn't get a discount based on those personal ties. The decision was coming soon so the rival school has their top assistant go scout the kid and show him extra attention with the sole intention of driving up the price for his likely destination. The team that the kid has ties to thinks the rival school is very interested (and the reputation of that school threatens them) so they end up upping their original offer by a healthy amount. The kid ends up committing to the school he has ties to but at a much greater cost. All because of a perceived threat. If you asked that kid who was interested, he'd likely name the one school that drove up the price but not realize that it was a ploy. Sometimes the strategy is if you know a kid is going to a certain place, you make sure they pay for it.
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solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
all good points you and Hammy are making. I think the part that's worrisome to some of us is the perception is reality notion. According to a couple of posters the UW staff treats in-state kids differently almost taking them for granted I guess. I'm not there so I don't know but if that's the perception that is out there it's going to eventually cost recruits down the line when UW really does need them.
all good points you and Hammy are making. I think the part that's worrisome to some of us is the perception is reality notion. According to a couple of posters the UW staff treats in-state kids differently almost taking them for granted I guess. I'm not there so I don't know but if that's the perception that is out there it's going to eventually cost recruits down the line when UW really does need them.
Chuck Schwartz
New member
I think that perception is made up. If they like an instate player, they'll go after them. If this were true, why pursue Jake Linhart, Matt Berkovitz, Keegan Ford or Tony Stillwell at 15/16? I think its a lot of bs personally.
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
I would have little doubt that many in state kids preceive a lack of love form the home state school. The cold hard reality is that there are very few scholarships at UW for hockey players and a lot more kids (and their parents) that think they deserve one. Lots of kids (and moreso crazy hockey parents....and trust me...they can often be completely off their rocker insane) want to play at Wisconsin and I'm sure it stings when there isn't much or any reciprocation. Not saying this specifically in regards to Baker, but certainly in general this may create a perception.
I would have little doubt that many in state kids preceive a lack of love form the home state school. The cold hard reality is that there are very few scholarships at UW for hockey players and a lot more kids (and their parents) that think they deserve one. Lots of kids (and moreso crazy hockey parents....and trust me...they can often be completely off their rocker insane) want to play at Wisconsin and I'm sure it stings when there isn't much or any reciprocation. Not saying this specifically in regards to Baker, but certainly in general this may create a perception.
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
Beautiful the way you followed your Post #506 with #507 Chuck. We all want the player that's hot today for our respective Team but the truth is there will be another one tomorrow, next week, next month. I don't doubt coaching staffs know these players long before we fans start seeing their names popping up on different sites.
Beautiful the way you followed your Post #506 with #507 Chuck. We all want the player that's hot today for our respective Team but the truth is there will be another one tomorrow, next week, next month. I don't doubt coaching staffs know these players long before we fans start seeing their names popping up on different sites.
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
That is true. As some anecdotal evidence, I have already been contacted by Eaves directly about my son. He is a '08 birth, and will be starting his second year of learn to skate next month. Pretty good backwards skater, but needs to work on puck control. Nice size for a five year old though.
That is true. As some anecdotal evidence, I have already been contacted by Eaves directly about my son. He is a '08 birth, and will be starting his second year of learn to skate next month. Pretty good backwards skater, but needs to work on puck control. Nice size for a five year old though.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
The phrase, "Wisconsin came late to the party" implies that we were interested but didn't make it enough of a priority - for whatever reason(s).
If it's not the case, and we were all set as far as forwards go, then it shouldn't have been said in that way. Especially by someone who we all believe has more inside info than the rest of us.
I think this whole discussion has developed due to a miscommunication.
I could care less where our players come from and if player A from somewhere else is better than player B from Wisconsin, I'm all for signing player A.
As has been stated, this isn't Kessel. That one stung because of how elite it was perceived that he was - and turned out to be.
The phrase, "Wisconsin came late to the party" implies that we were interested but didn't make it enough of a priority - for whatever reason(s).
If it's not the case, and we were all set as far as forwards go, then it shouldn't have been said in that way. Especially by someone who we all believe has more inside info than the rest of us.
I think this whole discussion has developed due to a miscommunication.
I could care less where our players come from and if player A from somewhere else is better than player B from Wisconsin, I'm all for signing player A.
As has been stated, this isn't Kessel. That one stung because of how elite it was perceived that he was - and turned out to be.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
I can't understand why I haven't heard anything back about the game dvds of my boy that I've mailed to Eaves.
Like I've said before, he's a grinder (98) with average skills and a great motor. In other words, a second line center at UW.
I can't understand why I haven't heard anything back about the game dvds of my boy that I've mailed to Eaves.
Like I've said before, he's a grinder (98) with average skills and a great motor. In other words, a second line center at UW.
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
He said my dream is to play in the NHL and not college hockey. That is why he lasted a whole 9 months.
He said my dream is to play in the NHL and not college hockey. That is why he lasted a whole 9 months.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse
Hard to blame him. He was ready.
Turris, on the other hand...
He said my dream is to play in the NHL and not college hockey. That is why he lasted a whole 9 months.
Hard to blame him. He was ready.
Turris, on the other hand...
mnstate0fhockey
New member
Add Jordan Schroeder to that list as well.
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