Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Sorry, Turris was a pretty impactful frosh. Sure, you can split hairs that he wracked up his points against weaklings...but in the same regard none of his teammates (who had the same opportunity against those weaklings) managed to do better then him. A point a game on a young team with no one else where he could ride a coattail was a darn good season for an 18 year old frosh.

As far as his place on that list, as long as it is based on NHL performance/production...he certainly belongs. 60 point centers in the NHL are at worse 2nd liners and Turris is probably more of a poor mans first liner at this point which certainly makes him one of the top dozen forwards to ever come out of UW.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

I guess I'll have to side with wojo on this one. Even his pedestrian numbers against non-cupcakes makes him a FAR better freshman than we normally have.

 

[XYZ]

I guess I'll have to side with wojo on this one. Even his pedestrian numbers against non-cupcakes makes him a FAR better freshman than we normally have.

Don't really have a horse in this race, but it's worth also remembering that he was very immature from a physical standpoint -- as evidenced by how long it took him to blossom at the pro level despite his obvious high-level skill set. Would I put him on an all-time UW team in terms of his college career? No, but his production is nonetheless very impressive considering where he was in his overall development at the time.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

On a totally unrelated front, I saw a tweet last week that Alex Shuchuck is #16 for UW, so he is staying @ UW even though Pops landed a job with Tech.

Turris...Maybe my expectations were a little high of him going in, but I don't recall many flashes were his talent made my eyes pop.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Funny how the only talk on here is a guy from 5 years ago. Shows how low things are right now.

I have to agree with TimothyA on Turris. I was expecting more and we all know he should have stuck around another year or two.

 

[Gandalf the Red]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Sorry, Turris was a pretty impactful frosh. Sure, you can split hairs that he wracked up his points against weaklings...but in the same regard none of his teammates (who had the same opportunity against those weaklings) managed to do better then him. A point a game on a young team with no one else where he could ride a coattail was a darn good season for an 18 year old frosh.

As far as his place on that list, as long as it is based on NHL performance/production...he certainly belongs. 60 point centers in the NHL are at worse 2nd liners and Turris is probably more of a poor mans first liner at this point which certainly makes him one of the top dozen forwards to ever come out of UW.

I agree on the NHL part to make the list, though I find this sad that after 50 years of UW hockey, there have not been more forwards to impact the NHL at a high level, but I guess goalie and Dman is covered.

I don't agree on "pretty impactful" when he could be bumped off the play against pretty much any WCHA team by a 4th liner. My expectations were much higher and pretty impactful should have been a disappointment for us. Now if Seamus Malone comes in and scores 35 points this season that will be pretty impactful. Hell if anyone on the team scores 35 points that would super.

I don't even know when the first game is...my level of excitement is reaching absolute zero.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

...

I don't even know when the first game is...my level of excitement is reaching absolute zero.

Yep, same here....

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

I don't even know when the first game is...my level of excitement is reaching absolute zero.

It's a little early to get all hyped up with the first game on 10/9. I am absolutely fascinated to see what this above average recruiting class can do scoring and to see what impact Strand and Bittner have on the X's, O's and the execution of said X's and O's. My expectation is no boneheaded play in the D zone, for the PK and PP to be in the top 20 in the nation, not to lose to or tie ASU and a .500 record. Baby steps unfortunately, but progress nonetheless.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

I imagine if Turris had played another year here we'd probably all have a somewhat better opinion of his skills. On the other hand, the guy currently behind the bench was probably a better NHL'er overall than Turris has been so far.

I'm also pretty interested in the upcoming season. A lot of pressure and a lot of drama involved as to how things will work out. Folks are naturally focused on the no name recruits, and the departures, etc. but there are at least a handful of pretty talented kids on the roster. And some guys that have shown some flashes of having decent upsides. If the top guys do their jobs and the rest follow, they could/should win some games. Stepping back from it, the situation is pretty fascinating, albeit one I certainly never expected to see.

 

[Red_Rob]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Hell if anyone on the team scores 35 points that would super.

I don't even know when the first game is...my level of excitement is reaching absolute zero.

hell if the team scores 35 points in the first half of the year it would be super

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

I imagine if Turris had played another year here we'd probably all have a somewhat better opinion of his skills. On the other hand, the guy currently behind the bench was probably a better NHL'er overall than Turris has been so far.

I'm also pretty interested in the upcoming season. A lot of pressure and a lot of drama involved as to how things will work out. Folks are naturally focused on the no name recruits, and the departures, etc. but there are at least a handful of pretty talented kids on the roster. And some guys that have shown some flashes of having decent upsides. If the top guys do their jobs and the rest follow, they could/should win some games. Stepping back from it, the situation is pretty fascinating, albeit one I certainly never expected to see.

You realize Turris basically has back to back 60 point seasons and Eaves got to 50 points (exactly 50 points) all of once? They have an identical 226 points in the NHL, and while you can argue Eaves accomplished that same production in 74 fewer games, Turris also came into the league way to young (thanks Gretz) and wasn't remotely ready for that....hell you can make an argument he would have barely been ready for college hockey by what should have been his sophomore year had Phoenix not rushed him. Barring injuries (which in fairness to Eaves was one of the main issues of why his NHL productivity was never what it could/should have been), a just turned 26 year old Turris will have far better NHL career then Eaves.

I agree in some regards that Turris as a frosh was "disappointing", but only in the context of expectations from his hype/draft position and through the prism of ignoring his age/physical stature which I was as guilty as most of doing. I expected Heatley as a frosh (or in other words the best player on the ice by a fair margin most nights and 20 more points of production). The difference in the two was that while Turris turned 18 right before the season started, Heatley was turning 19 in January of his first college season (or a full 8 months older at the same point of their careers). Turris skills were more subtle then a guy like Heatley....pucks in the net are pretty obvious....but I did notice he had exceptional vision allowing him to see the ice and be really effective at setting up plays.

I saw some flashes of that (vision/puck movement/play making) out of Hughes last year. Hopefully Hughes blossoms into everything Turris was in his frosh season and this will be slightly less painful of a season then I am expecting.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

You realize Turris basically has back to back 60 point seasons and Eaves got to 50 points (exactly 50 points) all of once? They have an identical 226 points in the NHL, and while you can argue Eaves accomplished that same production in 74 fewer games, Turris also came into the league way to young (thanks Gretz) and wasn't remotely ready for that....hell you can make an argument he would have barely been ready for college hockey by what should have been his sophomore year had Phoenix not rushed him. Barring injuries (which in fairness to Eaves was one of the main issues of why his NHL productivity was never what it could/should have been), a just turned 26 year old Turris will have far better NHL career then Eaves.

I agree in some regards that Turris as a frosh was "disappointing", but only in the context of expectations from his hype/draft position and through the prism of ignoring his age/physical stature which I was as guilty as most of doing. I expected Heatley as a frosh (or in other words the best player on the ice by a fair margin most nights and 20 more points of production). The difference in the two was that while Turris turned 18 right before the season started, Heatley was turning 19 in January of his first college season (or a full 8 months older at the same point of their careers). Turris skills were more subtle then a guy like Heatley....pucks in the net are pretty obvious....but I did notice he had exceptional vision allowing him to see the ice and be really effective at setting up plays.

I saw some flashes of that (vision/puck movement/play making) out of Hughes last year. Hopefully Hughes blossoms into everything Turris was in his frosh season and this will be slightly less painful of a season then I am expecting.

Well... now you made me look it up.

I agree that Turris is poised to have a much better career than Eaves and in five years time comparing the two in the same sentence might be silly. But that's in the future and it's hard to predict. For example in 2008 I thought Tiger Woods would easily have won 20 majors by now and of course, last fall, I thought Besse would have more than 6 goals in the 28 games he played not against MN, and Labate would easily have had more than 6 goals in the 35 he played all year. But SO FAR it's debatable between Eaves and Turris' respective NHL careers.

Turris went in too soon and Eaves was plagued by concussions that shortened his seasons and eventually ended his career. (10, I think, in total)

Turris played 164 rs games his last two years (by far his best) and has 122 pts. or .74 ppg. Eaves best years were 50 pts in 61gp; 46pts in 56gp; 43pts in 56 gp., totaling 139 pts./173gp or .80 ppg. In the remainder of their carreers to date, Turris had 104pts/234gp (.44ppg); Eaves 87pts/151gp. (.57ppg)

Overall Eaves is at .70 ppg and Turris .57 ppg. Turris has better puck skills, but I'd say Eaves was much more tenacious, an excellent skater that was a much more complete two way player over his career, and slightly more productive. Granted that again is in part due to Turris youth when he started vs. Eaves maturity. (stay in school, kids) But if Turris' career ended today, I'd give the edge to Eaves career in the comparison. Opinions can easily vary.

 

[MaizeRage]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

I think it's worth remembering that Eaves played in the NHL in an era where the league average was almost eight goals per game. These days, the league average is about 5.5 goals per game. If you adjust for era, Turris' numbers are much better than Eaves'.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

...Eaves was plagued by concussions that shortened his seasons and eventually ended his career. (10, I think, in total)

That explains a lot

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

I think it's worth remembering that Eaves played in the NHL in an era where the league average was almost eight goals per game. These days, the league average is about 5.5 goals per game. If you adjust for era, Turris' numbers are much better than Eaves'.

That's true, (it's more like 7.4 vs. 5.4 for the exact periods) but it's not linear so you can't just multiply todays pts. by a factor across the board and call it an equivalent. For example, in Eaves' 1st year with the Northstars his 46 pts placed him 125th in the league. In 2014 125th was occupied by Tarasenko with 43 pts.

The top 20-30 guys pts. however, were vastly different. Last year's leader Jamie Benn with 87 was 50 pts. behind 1980 league leaders Gretzky and Marcel Dionne who tied with 137.

As it always is between eras, it's a hard comparison to make. The game was different (a lot of blood on the ice in 1980) and both players filled different rolls. There's no question Turris is far more skilled offensively (he was the #3 overall pick vs Eaves being an afterthought 7th rounder) Turris has been expected to score, period. Eaves had guys like Bobby Smith and Steve Payne, and then Broten and Dino Ciccarelli with the Northstars to carry the scoring load. At Calgary he had the dazzling Mr. Magic, Kent Nilsson, along with Hakan Loob, and Lanny Macdonald, (and, of course, Gary Suter!) so while he was expected to score, he was a player more along the lines of a Pavelski. Probably a better skating, but less coordinated Pavelski. Play hard everywhere and just get the job done. In the end I prefer that kind of player so I prefer Eaves career I suppose.

I have seen them both play live in college and the NHL if that counts for anything. And I fully acknowledge that my opinion is very likely also colored by the fact that as a player, Eaves was a great Badger, and Turris was ... well... a Badger. It's perfectly valid to prefer Turris' career as he's a guy so skilled he can just make you look silly. That's pretty appealing.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXV: A Season without Chuck

That explains a lot

Who knows? It actually could. It would be kind of sad though if it did.

Medical care in 1980 certainly was not at all what it is today. Back then if you got knocked out they just threw some water in your face and sent you back in there. (Source: got knocked out a few times in the day.)

I really doubt whether Eaves would have been able to play more than a year or two in the league, if that, had he been playing today.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Mark Stroebel is being seasoned by Mr. Rohlik @ OSU as a potential future UW head coach. A little surprising considering he had been out of hockey for 10+ years to give him the "associate" title. Maybe Rohlik is channeling in inner MM.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Finally a roster...

22 Barnes, Tanner F 6-0 182 FR Eagan, Minn.
12 Besse, Grant F 5-10 185 JR Plymouth, Minn.
7 Bunz, Jake D 6-3 197 RS FR Middleton, Wis.
23 Cavallini, Aidan F 5-10 200 JR Barrington, Ill.
26 Davison, Tim D 5-10 175 RS SO Green Bay, Wis.
21 Ford, Jason F 6-0 185 SO Waunakee, Wis.
15 Freytag, Matthew F 6-1 198 FR Wayzata, Minn.
34 Grunwald, Gabe G 6-3 200 RS FR Toronto, Ontario
19 Hughes, Cameron F 6-0 165 SO Edmonton, Alberta
25 Hurley, Cullen F 6-2 195 SO Eagan, Minn.
17 Johnson, Will F 5-10 175 FR Santa Barbara, Calif.
30 Jurusik, Matt G 6-2 193 FR La Grange, Ill.
14 Keryluk, Zac F 6-1 220 FR Verona, Wis.
9 Kunin, Luke F 6-0 190 FR Chesterfield, Mo.
10 Linhart, Jake D 5-11 185 SO Brookfield, Wis.
18 Malone, Seamus F 5-10 175 FR Naperville, Ill.
3 McGuire, Corbin F 5-8 180 RS SO Ridgefield, Conn.
31 Miller, Adam G 5-10 170 RS JR Long Grove, Ill.
11 Rockwood, Adam F 5-10 165 SO Coquitlam, British Columbia
28 Schulze, Kevin D 5-10 165 SR White Bear Lake, Minn.
4 Sexton, Patrick D 6-1 198 FR Ottawa, Ontario
16 Shuchuk, Alex F 5-10 175 SO Madison, Wis.
24 Soleway, Jedd F 6-3 220 JR Vernon, British Columbia
6 Tischke, Peter D 6-1 205 FR Hinsdalle, Ill.
27 Ustaski, Matt F 6-6 220 SO Glenview, Ill.
13 Wagner, Ryan F 5-8 185 SO Park Ridge, Ill.
20 Wittchow, Eddie D 6-4 215 SR Burnsville, Minn.
8 Zirbel, Jarod F 5-11 170 FR Green Bay, Wis.

I did not realize Freytag is from Wayzata MN, and so in next year's Fr stud Max Zimmer. The gals also have a high end Fr this year from Wayzata, Sophie Shaver.

Wisconsin Hockey: Wayzata means "Wisconsin pipeline" in Ojibwa.

 

[BlueOx]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

...
I did not realize Freytag is from Wayzata MN, and so in next year's Fr stud Max Zimmer. The gals also have a high end Fr this year from Wayzata, Sophie Shaver.

Wisconsin Hockey: Wayzata means "Wisconsin pipeline" in Ojibwa.

I'd rather that pipeline be from Edina, Eden Prairie, or Shattuck.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey XXXIV: A Season without Chuck

Finally a roster...

22 Barnes, Tanner F 6-0 182 FR Eagan, Minn.
12 Besse, Grant F 5-10 185 JR Plymouth, Minn.
7 Bunz, Jake D 6-3 197 RS FR Middleton, Wis.
23 Cavallini, Aidan F 5-10 200 JR Barrington, Ill.
26 Davison, Tim D 5-10 175 RS SO Green Bay, Wis.
21 Ford, Jason F 6-0 185 SO Waunakee, Wis.
15 Freytag, Matthew F 6-1 198 FR Wayzata, Minn.
34 Grunwald, Gabe G 6-3 200 RS FR Toronto, Ontario
19 Hughes, Cameron F 6-0 165 SO Edmonton, Alberta
25 Hurley, Cullen F 6-2 195 SO Eagan, Minn.
17 Johnson, Will F 5-10 175 FR Santa Barbara, Calif.
30 Jurusik, Matt G 6-2 193 FR La Grange, Ill.
14 Keryluk, Zac F 6-1 220 FR Verona, Wis.
9 Kunin, Luke F 6-0 190 FR Chesterfield, Mo.
10 Linhart, Jake D 5-11 185 SO Brookfield, Wis.
18 Malone, Seamus F 5-10 175 FR Naperville, Ill.
3 McGuire, Corbin F 5-8 180 RS SO Ridgefield, Conn.
31 Miller, Adam G 5-10 170 RS JR Long Grove, Ill.
11 Rockwood, Adam F 5-10 165 SO Coquitlam, British Columbia
28 Schulze, Kevin D 5-10 165 SR White Bear Lake, Minn.
4 Sexton, Patrick D 6-1 198 FR Ottawa, Ontario
16 Shuchuk, Alex F 5-10 175 SO Madison, Wis.
24 Soleway, Jedd F 6-3 220 JR Vernon, British Columbia
6 Tischke, Peter D 6-1 205 FR Hinsdalle, Ill.
27 Ustaski, Matt F 6-6 220 SO Glenview, Ill.
13 Wagner, Ryan F 5-8 185 SO Park Ridge, Ill.
20 Wittchow, Eddie D 6-4 215 SR Burnsville, Minn.
8 Zirbel, Jarod F 5-11 170 FR Green Bay, Wis.

I did not realize Freytag is from Wayzata MN, and so in next year's Fr stud Max Zimmer. The gals also have a high end Fr this year from Wayzata, Sophie Shaver.

Wisconsin Hockey: Wayzata means "Wisconsin pipeline" in Ojibwa.

11 true freshman, 2 seniors and 4 juniors. Don't know the count from last fall, but that is tough - two years in row. The sophomores have improve alot for any type of success. The Eaves cycle just sucks.