Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

I wouldn't mind seeing things a bit more open, but the dramatic exaggeration is comical. I honestly wonder if you'd rather lose 6-5 than win 3-2 sometimes.

When Eaves has the horses, he lets them go. That 09-10 team was a top 5 scoring club in the country.

what's dramatic about watching UW play the prevent defense constantly with 2-1 leads? that's fact. and it happens all of the time. it's tiring and a major part of why you're seeing more and more empty seats. to surmise I'd rather see the team lose 6-5 than win 3-2 is the old baseball argument.

I'll re-iterate: JUST WIN. *however* I've also said I'm sick and tired of watching the way this team plays. it's either prevent defense with a lead, and many other times they play with so little margin for error the entire game(s) is like watching tight-rope walker for 2 hours. it's not fun at all. so what I'm saying is open it up. if you lose 2-3 games you would have won if you played the trap, so be it. if you still wind up with 24-26 wins ala Badger Bob or Sauer until 1994 who'd argue that? you win AND it's fun to watch

and I'll submit again, if Dany Heatley were on this team with the way he played defense in college he'd be Gorowsky'd and would have left after 1 season. and Eaves would have missed out on a 56 point scoring frosh making nothing out of something with that rigid style.

 

[DoorCtyBadgers]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

it's THE argument with Eaves isn't it? if Dany Heatley were on this team I doubt he'd make it of Eaves' doghouse, and that's the kind of notion I vehemently disagree with. Eaves needs to let offensive players play their games. he wouldn't need to worry about trapping or playing keepaway with a 2-1 lead (then ****ing games away) if he allowed the horses to go go go.

at least that's my .02

and theres your number one problem playing that dog house system....it can even lull your own team to sleep when they are playing and lose games to teams you shouldn't(psu)...there are tiem where you have to say lets run boys and let them run, you'd probably see them run a few more teams out of the building....when that barnes zengerle kerdiles line gets on the ice just telll them to go lite it up....nothing wrong with a disciplined hocke but there are times in period of every game you have to let your team fly....and this comes fron one who actually has played the game in controlled settings for over 40 years

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

Let me ask the class a question....which Eaves "doghoused" player has done squat past UW? It sure as hell ain't Goro or Bearson. I guess you could argue Leavitt, but that was more then a "doghousing" issue for sure. Just a thought....maybe some guys end up in the doghouse because they don't have the ability or the work ethic to succeed in hockey at the upper D1 level?

As to the nonsense about letting his "offensive" players play....please stop. please. Robbie Earl was putrid in his own end...but he sure as hell played and played a lot. You put a defensively responsible player to run shotgun with him like Pavs and magically it works. Michael Davies was far from a defensive minded player and played all the time. Zengerle didn't show up exactly a finished product in his own end (and he has gotten a ton better and is actually really solid now) but still managed to play 41 games as a frosh on a loaded team. The issue is not that "offensive" players find their way into the Eaves doghouse, the issue is that the "offensive" players just aren't good enough. The real issue with Eaves is getting enough "offensive" players on campus at the same time. When he does, the Badgers are good.

On the Zullnick/Besse combo....to try that out of the gate you would need an absolute defensive minded stud for that to work (think Marian Hossa). To take a couple kids that will have just turned 19 (one straight out of freakin' high school hockey) that are both smallish and plug them on a line together would be beyond foolish, especially when you should have a veteran laden team with all sorts of quality compliments to both players. If you want to take advantage of Zullnick's playmaking abilty, you've got guys like Mersch and Barnes that are older, more experienced, and bring some size to the party that can compliment Zullnick. Besse is probably a good fit with Zengerle or even Kerdiles. I'm not saying by the end of the year or in subsequent years Besse/Zullnick may not be a dynamite combo...just don't see it out the gate and there really is no reason to even try that with the options available.

 

[Gandalf the Red]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

Let me ask the class a question....which Eaves "doghoused" player has done squat past UW? It sure as hell ain't Goro or Bearson. I guess you could argue Leavitt, but that was more then a "doghousing" issue for sure. Just a thought....maybe some guys end up in the doghouse because they don't have the ability or the work ethic to succeed in hockey at the upper D1 level?

As to the nonsense about letting his "offensive" players play....please stop. please. Robbie Earl was putrid in his own end...but he sure as hell played and played a lot. You put a defensively responsible player to run shotgun with him like Pavs and magically it works. Michael Davies was far from a defensive minded player and played all the time. Zengerle didn't show up exactly a finished product in his own end (and he has gotten a ton better and is actually really solid now) but still managed to play 41 games as a frosh on a loaded team. The issue is not that "offensive" players find their way into the Eaves doghouse, the issue is that the "offensive" players just aren't good enough. The real issue with Eaves is getting enough "offensive" players on campus at the same time. When he does, the Badgers are good.

On the Zullnick/Besse combo....to try that out of the gate you would need an absolute defensive minded stud for that to work (think Marian Hossa). To take a couple kids that will have just turned 19 (one straight out of freakin' high school hockey) that are both smallish and plug them on a line together would be beyond foolish, especially when you should have a veteran laden team with all sorts of quality compliments to both players. If you want to take advantage of Zullnick's playmaking abilty, you've got guys like Mersch and Barnes that are older, more experienced, and bring some size to the party that can compliment Zullnick. Besse is probably a good fit with Zengerle or even Kerdiles. I'm not saying by the end of the year or in subsequent years Besse/Zullnick may not be a dynamite combo...just don't see it out the gate and there really is no reason to even try that with the options available.

To be fair to Tom Gorowsky, he decided to not pursue hockey after his senior year, and after a very nice final campaign (when he finally saw the ice) he had some offers. He was sick of the bull****. Would he be in the NHL right now, probably not, but 60 would me mad at me if I didn't stick up for Tom in this instance.

 

[Almington]

To be fair to Tom Gorowsky, he decided to not pursue hockey after his senior year, and after a very nice final campaign (when he finally saw the ice) he had some offers. He was sick of the bull****. Would he be in the NHL right now, probably not, but 60 would me mad at me if I didn't stick up for Tom in this instance.

May have had offers, but he was still a sub-par skater. That's what's similar with all the players who end up as repeated healthy scratches as underclassmen, and you saw it when they did make the ice as juniors and seniors, they just didn't have the skating ability to keep up and needed to improve other aspects of their games to become more effective to actually crack the lineup.

 

[Gandalf the Red]

May have had offers, but he was still a sub-par skater. That's what's similar with all the players who end up as repeated healthy scratches as underclassmen, and you saw it when they did make the ice as juniors and seniors, they just didn't have the skating ability to keep up and needed to improve other aspects of their games to become more effective to actually crack the lineup.

That description doesn't sound like a guy who put up 12-18-30 as a senior and was 3rd on the team in scoring playing a lot of the year on the top line. Was he stud? No. But he was a better player than you are crediting him for.

Mersch skated like **** as a freshman and sophomore...

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

Let me ask the class a question....which Eaves "doghoused" player has done squat past UW? It sure as hell ain't Goro or Bearson. I guess you could argue Leavitt, but that was more then a "doghousing" issue for sure. Just a thought....maybe some guys end up in the doghouse because they don't have the ability or the work ethic to succeed in hockey at the upper D1 level?

As to the nonsense about letting his "offensive" players play....please stop. please. Robbie Earl was putrid in his own end...but he sure as hell played and played a lot. You put a defensively responsible player to run shotgun with him like Pavs and magically it works. Michael Davies was far from a defensive minded player and played all the time. Zengerle didn't show up exactly a finished product in his own end (and he has gotten a ton better and is actually really solid now) but still managed to play 41 games as a frosh on a loaded team. The issue is not that "offensive" players find their way into the Eaves doghouse, the issue is that the "offensive" players just aren't good enough. The real issue with Eaves is getting enough "offensive" players on campus at the same time. When he does, the Badgers are good.

On the Zullnick/Besse combo....to try that out of the gate you would need an absolute defensive minded stud for that to work (think Marian Hossa). To take a couple kids that will have just turned 19 (one straight out of freakin' high school hockey) that are both smallish and plug them on a line together would be beyond foolish, especially when you should have a veteran laden team with all sorts of quality compliments to both players. If you want to take advantage of Zullnick's playmaking abilty, you've got guys like Mersch and Barnes that are older, more experienced, and bring some size to the party that can compliment Zullnick. Besse is probably a good fit with Zengerle or even Kerdiles. I'm not saying by the end of the year or in subsequent years Besse/Zullnick may not be a dynamite combo...just don't see it out the gate and there really is no reason to even try that with the options available.

I can't answer the first question.

as to Davies, he was in the dog-house for his first 2 years

to your point that letting offensive players play is NOT a problem under Eaves, I would disagree. of course that's an argument we've gone over ad nauseum here

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

I like these lines. I don't care if Zulinick and Besse are trainwrecks in the d-zone, so were Zent and Schier as frosh. Eaves has to get the hell off his horse with that and allow goal scorers and playmakers to play the roles of goal scorers and play makers. besse w/zulinick *could* be magic together, who knows?

I also like Woods and LaBate on the 3rd line. it could be a VERY solid 3rd line with them and they were indeed miscast as 2nd liners (more due to a lack of depth I think)

re: Matt Walsh. Am I the only one here who thinks he did a bang up job with the D? the defense seemed to significantly improve once he stepped in

Walsh did an awesome job. The D played better under him this year than anytime under Butters. That being said, Miller would be an upgrade with his recruiting channels he has developed. It will be interesting to see if he applies when Eaves posts the permanent job. Gwoz will probably be unemployed this year, and can afford it, but I doubt Miller can just sit on the sidelines and wait for Gwoz to get a job so he can. BA would be pulling off the heist of the century if he could land Gwoz and Miller.

Mersch/Zulinick/Besse...Zulinick has had a full season of film study and indoctrination into Eaves' system. I don't see any reason why he can't be defensibly responsible. Worse case I'd flip Kerdiles and Besse after trying Besse on the 2nd line. Besse is a sniper, Zengerlee setting him up might not be a bad deal. Kerdiles as a C...interesting. Zulinick is a natural C, I'd hate to see his talent waste away C'ing the 3rd line. If Zulinick was a trainwreck @ C, then stick him at wing with Kerdiles C'ing him and Mersch. I guess in the end, those 6 guys are the 6 best forwards and will need to play together in some combo.

It's actually refreshing to have finished the year strong and have a lot to look forward too.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

Let me ask the class a question....which Eaves "doghoused" player has done squat past UW? It sure as hell ain't Goro or Bearson. I guess you could argue Leavitt, but that was more then a "doghousing" issue for sure. Just a thought....maybe some guys end up in the doghouse because they don't have the ability or the work ethic to succeed in hockey at the upper D1 level?

As to the nonsense about letting his "offensive" players play....please stop. please. Robbie Earl was putrid in his own end...but he sure as hell played and played a lot. You put a defensively responsible player to run shotgun with him like Pavs and magically it works. Michael Davies was far from a defensive minded player and played all the time. Zengerle didn't show up exactly a finished product in his own end (and he has gotten a ton better and is actually really solid now) but still managed to play 41 games as a frosh on a loaded team. The issue is not that "offensive" players find their way into the Eaves doghouse, the issue is that the "offensive" players just aren't good enough. The real issue with Eaves is getting enough "offensive" players on campus at the same time. When he does, the Badgers are good.

On the Zullnick/Besse combo....to try that out of the gate you would need an absolute defensive minded stud for that to work (think Marian Hossa). To take a couple kids that will have just turned 19 (one straight out of freakin' high school hockey) that are both smallish and plug them on a line together would be beyond foolish, especially when you should have a veteran laden team with all sorts of quality compliments to both players. If you want to take advantage of Zullnick's playmaking abilty, you've got guys like Mersch and Barnes that are older, more experienced, and bring some size to the party that can compliment Zullnick. Besse is probably a good fit with Zengerle or even Kerdiles. I'm not saying by the end of the year or in subsequent years Besse/Zullnick may not be a dynamite combo...just don't see it out the gate and there really is no reason to even try that with the options available.

This is me standing up and giving you an ovation.

That description doesn't sound like a guy who put up 12-18-30 as a senior and was 3rd on the team in scoring playing a lot of the year on the top line. Was he stud? No. But he was a better player than you are crediting him for.

Mersch skated like **** as a freshman and sophomore...

Goro couldn't skate a lick and couldn't keep up with the pace for three seasons. Should he have played a little bit more, yeah, especially as a junior.

Mersch maybe wasn't a good skater but his skill level is 100x what Gorowsky had. There's a reason why Mersch is going to play in the NHL some day and Goro wouldn't have made it out of the coast.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

I can't answer the first question.

as to Davies, he was in the dog-house for his first 2 years

to your point that letting offensive players play is NOT a problem under Eaves, I would disagree. of course that's an argument we've gone over ad nauseum here

Are we talking about a different Davies? Michael Davies from Chesterfield, Mo? Cause that Davies played in 41 & 39 games as a frosh and soph respectively. Third leading score as a frosh and 4th leading scorer as a soph.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

Are we talking about a different Davies? Michael Davies from Chesterfield, Mo? Cause that Davies played in 41 & 39 games as a frosh and soph respectively. Third leading score as a frosh and 4th leading scorer as a soph.

Pretty sure he's talking about Ray Davies.

Had both the hair and the teeth to be a great hockey player, but couldn't ever get out of the dog house and onto the ice. Sad, but entirely true story.

 

[Almington]

Are we talking about a different Davies? Michael Davies from Chesterfield, Mo? Cause that Davies played in 41 & 39 games as a frosh and soph respectively. Third leading score as a frosh and 4th leading scorer as a soph.

Eaves never trusted Davies when he was on the ice. Davies always knew right where Eaves limit was and never crossed it but at the same time you could tell he had little interest in getting better defensively (mostly because he didn't improve much while he was here).

 

[Go4PuckFan2.0]

Pretty sure he's talking about Ray Davies.

Had both the hair and the teeth to be a great hockey player, but couldn't ever get out of the dog house and onto the ice. Sad, but entirely true story.

Saw that pic and thought you may have been talking about Derek (Geddy) Lee.

 

[icebadger]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

Eaves never trusted Davies when he was on the ice. Davies always knew right where Eaves limit was and never crossed it but at the same time you could tell he had little interest in getting better defensively (mostly because he didn't improve much while he was here).

Exactly. Davies may not have taken up permanent residence in the doghouse, but he certainly had a frequent visitor card. An example from Oct 2009 (presser transcript):

QUESTION #9: I guess when you're looking for more goal scoring, one person a lot of people might look to is a Michael Davies. He obviously did not play this weekend. Where, on the outside . . . kind of a head scratcher at the beginning of the year to be in that situation. Where are you at with all of this with Michael Davies development and trying to get him in the lineup?

EAVES: Well, Michael Davies is going to have to get himself in the lineup. And you know, I'm anxious to see what he comes back with us this week. It's a matter of earning time and getting in there. Michael is a very talented young guy, but for the things that we want to get done, we just don't want a part-time guy, we want a guy that's going to contribute not just in the power play but five-on-five, and he's shown that he can do that, but he's got to do that all the time.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

Exactly. Davies may not have taken up permanent residence in the doghouse, but he certainly had a frequent visitor card. An example from Oct 2009 (presser transcript):

So he sat a series at the beggining of his senior year to send a message to him and probably his teammates and he was a "frequent" doghouse visitor? You realise he played 41 of 43 games that season right? 80 of 81 as a frosh/soph.

 

[icebadger]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

So he sat a series at the beggining of his senior year to send a message to him and probably his teammates and he was a "frequent" doghouse visitor? You realise he played 41 of 43 games that season right? 80 of 81 as a frosh/soph.

I recall similar occurrences for games, for periods, for shifts and I recall many times when he was in the doghouse but not necessarily benched, the two don't always go hand in hand.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

L.A. Kings are making a strong push to sign Mersch.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

I recall similar occurrences for games, for periods, for shifts and I recall many times when he was in the doghouse but not necessarily benched, the two don't always go hand in hand.

exactly. there were points where Eaves wanted to make a point w/Davies and sat him for a shift or kept him off a pp and that to me is detrimental over the long run. do it once or twice to get a message across. do it throughout his 4 years with some regularity and you're (Eaves) not learning yourself that the kid skates to his own drummer. loosen the leash a bit and watch him go.

but I digress. we're stuck with Eaves, I'm just hoping he loosens the reigns a bit.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

Alright...I stand corrected. I just don't remember Davies being a frequent doghouse member. I remember a guy that played virtually every game possible during his 4 year career and was among the top scorers each of his 4 years on the team. I seem to recall him generally being on one of the top lines too.

Maybe Barnes getting benched a game this year makes him a "frequent" dog house visitor too and I missed that lol. Was he scared to get a dirty look from the evil Eaves too? This hate of Eaves has grown to epic proportions. I don't like the guy based on inconcistant results. Sorry...but when the Badger have been good under Eaves...they are real good and extrememly fun to watch...ie '06 &'10. The rub with it is when they are not good, they are pretty bad and crappy to watch and it has happened to often under Eaves.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol XXV: There's Hope! Or whatever...

exactly. there were points where Eaves wanted to make a point w/Davies and sat him for a shift or kept him off a pp and that to me is detrimental over the long run. do it once or twice to get a message across. do it throughout his 4 years with some regularity and you're (Eaves) not learning yourself that the kid skates to his own drummer. loosen the leash a bit and watch him go.

but I digress. we're stuck with Eaves, I'm just hoping he loosens the reigns a bit.

Eaves couldn't have had a looser leash on Davies. I like the kid a lot, one of my favorite Badgers, but he couldn't find the defensive zone with a map.