Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

I must say, I'm prouder than hell of the kids on this team. They could have quit, but they busted it until the final whistle. Talent is great, but I'm proud to have covered this group of guys this season that gave it everything they had down the stretch, knowing they were a long shot to advance to the tournament.

So a group of scholarship hockey players, guys who've competed hard their whole life at every level they played, who are only here because they have shown the ability to compete and want to excel and win...

So this group plays hard till the end, which is why they're here on scholarship in the first place, and we're supposed to see this as some super-human level of perseverance?

Great series no doubt, and I'm happy for the effort, but that effort is the minimum required. I'd have been more surprised had they quit. I mean, they better play hard to the end. I don't think that's asking too much. They're hockey players and that's what any hockey player with any self-respect would do. I see it at the youth level all the time. Why wouldn't I expect it at the college level?

Chuck - all due respect, but at some point you're no longer "covering" the Badgers and instead are writing a fan blog.

I mean, when's the last time you had anything negative to say? Like how our season long bugaboos of poorly timed turnovers and weak play in front of our own net doomed us in both of the games we lost to Denver.

17-18-2

We'll all find silver linings, mine at the moment is the emergence of Rumpel. But realistically, this group has a lot of work to do. More than just wait for two new freshman to arrive on campus.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Now I've gone and done it...

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Chuck - all due respect, but at some point you're no longer "covering" the Badgers and instead are writing a fan blog.

I mean, when's the last time you had anything negative to say? Like how our season long bugaboos of poorly timed turnovers and weak play in front of our own net doomed us in both of the games we lost to Denver.

17-18-2

We'll all find silver linings, mine at the moment is the emergence of Rumpel. But realistically, this group has a lot of work to do. More than just wait for two new freshman to arrive on campus.

I didn't know that being negative was a pre-requisite for covering a team. I've been more than fair, and criticized coaches and players when it was necessary. Because I don't feel the need to throw the program under the bus in 90% of my posts on this board doesn't mean I'm not realistic.

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

So a group of scholarship hockey players, guys who've competed hard their whole life at every level they played, who are only here because they have shown the ability to compete and want to excel and win...

So this group plays hard till the end, which is why they're here on scholarship in the first place, and we're supposed to see this as some super-human level of perseverance?

Great series no doubt, and I'm happy for the effort, but that effort is the minimum required. I'd have been more surprised had they quit. I mean, they better play hard to the end. I don't think that's asking too much. They're hockey players and that's what any hockey player with any self-respect would do. I see it at the youth level all the time. Why wouldn't I expect it at the college level?

Chuck - all due respect, but at some point you're no longer "covering" the Badgers and instead are writing a fan blog.

I mean, when's the last time you had anything negative to say? Like how our season long bugaboos of poorly timed turnovers and weak play in front of our own net doomed us in both of the games we lost to Denver.

17-18-2

We'll all find silver linings, mine at the moment is the emergence of Rumpel. But realistically, this group has a lot of work to do. More than just wait for two new freshman to arrive on campus.

How many times have we experienced teams that by the end of a disappointing season (or even game) appear to just go through the motions of playing the game without any real fight to actually try and win? I've seen it at many levels (heck, I've been on teams like that).

It is possible to criticize without being negative. This season was, to say the least, a significant disappointment from a win/loss perspective and although the team returns the majority of the roster and brings in a very good class of recruits their are still many unanswered questions about next season: Who steps up to replace Schultz, depth of consistent scoring beyond just the 1st line, more offensive pressure and less of a defensive shell, more physical in general on defense, better positional fundamentals on the PK (and spending less time on the PK for taking boneheaded penalties)

These are all areas where the team was in some way deficient this season and I'm not convinced that they have all been demonstrated as fixed but most have shown some improvement over the course of the season. It's also worth noting that there was a remarkable amount of parity in the WCHA this year, not much separated the 3-6 place teams that hosted first round series with the 7-10 placed teams who went on the road.

The players were the ones who were making the mistakes, but it wasn't because they were not talented enough but because they were not experienced enough. They were trying to do what worked for them either in the USHL or HS last year and so much of what did work for players at those levels will be an absolute failure if tried in the WCHA. The structure of the college hockey season is that the coached has one week from the first practice before the first series of the season and 2 weeks before the start of conference play, they didn't have time to try and adjust every on-ice habit and instinct that these players had right away, it was a process that takes time and trial and error. Even in the cases where they might do the right thing in practice, the player may still revert to their old habits when under pressure on the ice (or even worse, they spend a split second to think delaying their reaction). Changing old habits and building new habits takes time, and early in the season time was a luxury that they just didn't have so it was a full trial by fire. I feel very similar to this team going into next year as I did about UW going into 04-05: The pieces are present they just need to be molded and fit into where they can best contribute to the overall success of the team.

When is a turnover or boneheaded penalty NOT poorly timed?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

I don't know if I'd say it's too little too late (the last few weeks have been alright), but it was definitely too late.

May our early departures be both expected and within the next two weeks, and may the leftovers remember how they played the last few weeks and be able to improve on it next season.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

So a group of scholarship hockey players, guys who've competed hard their whole life at every level they played, who are only here because they have shown the ability to compete and want to excel and win...

So this group plays hard till the end, which is why they're here on scholarship in the first place, and we're supposed to see this as some super-human level of perseverance?

Great series no doubt, and I'm happy for the effort, but that effort is the minimum required. I'd have been more surprised had they quit. I mean, they better play hard to the end. I don't think that's asking too much. They're hockey players and that's what any hockey player with any self-respect would do. I see it at the youth level all the time. Why wouldn't I expect it at the college level?

Chuck - all due respect, but at some point you're no longer "covering" the Badgers and instead are writing a fan blog.

I mean, when's the last time you had anything negative to say? Like how our season long bugaboos of poorly timed turnovers and weak play in front of our own net doomed us in both of the games we lost to Denver.

17-18-2

We'll all find silver linings, mine at the moment is the emergence of Rumpel. But realistically, this group has a lot of work to do. More than just wait for two new freshman to arrive on campus.

good points. I'm heartened a bit by how they played the last 6-8 games. but overall you're right in that those last 6-8 games is how we expected them to play all season, not just at the end.

re: Chuck - I imagine he'll never share a negative thought so he can continue to have access to the players or recruits

I have no clue whether Kerdiles and Zulinick can push this team to the top 5 (if they do, they boslter the talent>youth argument though), but I'm hoping

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

The players were the ones who were making the mistakes, but it wasn't because they were not talented enough but because they were not experienced enough. They were trying to do what worked for them either in the USHL or HS last year and so much of what did work for players at those levels will be an absolute failure if tried in the WCHA. The structure of the college hockey season is that the coached has one week from the first practice before the first series of the season and 2 weeks before the start of conference play, they didn't have time to try and adjust every on-ice habit and instinct that these players had right away, it was a process that takes time and trial and error. Even in the cases where they might do the right thing in practice, the player may still revert to their old habits when under pressure on the ice (or even worse, they spend a split second to think delaying their reaction). Changing old habits and building new habits takes time, and early in the season time was a luxury that they just didn't have so it was a full trial by fire. I feel very similar to this team going into next year as I did about UW going into 04-05: The pieces are present they just need to be molded and fit into where they can best contribute to the overall success of the team.

When is a turnover or boneheaded penalty NOT poorly timed?

I'm sure you won't be surprised but I totally disagree w/this premise. When and IF Kerdiles and Zulinick put up points (over 25-30 each lets say) next season how does that measure up to your argument?

Zent, Heatley, Earl, Rafalski, Schier, McDonald, Suter x 4, Granato x 2 (Don and Tony), Pavelski. those aren't guys that brought in JR or HS habits that brought them down or caused them to stumble so it's not like this is a universal problem that every frosh has to overcome annually, if that were the case frosh wouldn't play at all (ala football unless you're Dayne, R)

when a player needs grooming (like over 1/2 the team right now) yeah, you've got problems. I guess that's been the point for me, not enough difference makers brought in, each class needs about 2 of those.

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

I'm sure you won't be surprised but I totally disagree w/this premise. When and IF Kerdiles and Zulinick put up points (over 25-30 each lets say) next season how does that measure up to your argument?

Zent, Heatley, Earl, Rafalski, Schier, McDonald, Suter x 4, Granato x 2 (Don and Tony), Pavelski. those aren't guys that brought in JR or HS habits that brought them down or caused them to stumble so it's not like this is a universal problem that every frosh has to overcome annually, if that were the case frosh wouldn't play at all (ala football unless you're Dayne, R)

when a player needs grooming (like over 1/2 the team right now) yeah, you've got problems. I guess that's been the point for me, not enough difference makers brought in, each class needs about 2 of those.

This isn't the 1980's or early 1990's, the game has changed so examples from that time period are not particularly relevant to the issues of today.

It's not EVERY freshman, but it hold for all but the most exceptional of talent goes through an adjustment process to acclimate to the increased speed and skill of the players around them. To go from watching the MN HS tournament, to the WCHA F5, to a MN Wild game at the X over the course of a week and the difference in the speed of the game between each level is astounding.

Earl was NOT a complete player when he stepped on the campus, he had an electric playmaking ability but he was also nearly a complete defensive disaster. With very rare exceptions, every single player who comes to UW has areas of his game that needs improvement. The NTDP-U18 team has some of the most talented US players in their age group, yet they are only a middle of the pack USHL team, it isn't that they lack talent, it is that they lack experience. That's the exact same issue that this years Badger team faced. Being a successful team requires that that little things be done that don't directly show up on the stats sheet. You can't just measure how good or valuable a player is by the number of points that he accumulates.

How many true freshmen play in football every year, why is it common practice to redshirt your first season, and why do so many players enroll in January so that they can have spring practices to adjust to the college game?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Anxiously awaiting the early departure(s) to be announced and over with...

No late summer surprises, please.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

I'm a little suprised at some of the tone here in the post mortem. Why give Chuck grief over being too much of a "fan" for not being "critical" of the team? This was a team that as soon as Craig Smith and Murray bolted was not going to be anything more then middling at best. What were the realistic expectations going into the season? I seem to remember the concensus being a hope that they could land a home ice playoff spot is things fell right for a roster with ONE senior and only a hand full of juniors with two true frosh as your goalies. They missed home ice by a couple games in large part to having untimely injuries (Lee & McCabe hurt the most) and having your captain have simply a miserable first half of the season. You can certainly question Eaves on hwo we got to the point of having such a young roster (and one probably devoid of a couple play makers too), but I don't think there is anything shocking in how the season unfolded. If you wanted to ignore the reality of the roster we had and pretend that the history of Wisconsin hockey was somehow going to overcoming all the warts, well then I can see being dissapointed.

My take on the season is that in the last month, a young team grew up and Rumpel emerged from good frosh to the kind of goalie you can ride to great things in subsequent years. Losing Schultz will hurt, but Simonelli really emerged and McCabe evolved into what he was expected to be once he got pasted his injury and accimilating to the college game. Again Schultz will be missed, but Simonelli and McCabe are both ready to assume a big chunk of his role offensively and on the powerplay. Assuming Ramage's first half struggles are an aboration and he is more like he was in prior seasons and the second half and you add in Wittchow who had a great year in the USHL and is talented enough to be an NHL draft pick...I like our options on D. Faust played a significant role on the team and will benefit from the experience. Daly was a guy that was probably better served with a year in the USHL in hindsight, but make no mistake...he has talent and will challange for time and did benefit from the few cameo appearances and practicing with college players for a season.

Zullnick and Kerdelis will help almost immediately to provide the Badgers with one of their most glaring needs....secondary scoring. The Badgers were a one trick pony, the top line. Had Smith and Murray stayed....they would have been a much better team instead of reliance on one singular line. Zullnick and Kerdelis added to (hopefully) Zengerle, Mersch, & Barnes and a healthy Lee will provide a much more balanced offensive attach. Mix in Labate and Woods who both looked to be emerging down the stretch and you likely have 3 solid lines capable of scoring some goals and let some guys slide into more of the complimentary roles (like a Paape, Little, Meuer, ect) where they can chip in some scoring against other teams lower lines. Our forward depth is approaching the levels of the last to Frozen Four teams in my opinoin. For those of you thinking Kerdelis is not an immediate impact guy, you did not watch him play the Badgers in the exhibition game and are ignoring the history of the top scorers coming out of the USDP....kids that lead that program in scoring have short transition periods and are impactful in college as frosh.

Our goaltending is much less of a questionmark going into next season. Pretty sure goaltending will give us a chance to win virtually every night.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Kerdelis had 4 goals and 6 assists against D1 teams in exhibitions this seasons. USDT played 12 games against D1 teams (not sure Kerdelis played in all as I know he was hurt at one point). 10 points in 12 games is pretty darn good. I realize the exhibition games against the college teams don't always get a full blown effort as some guys that don't play regularly get oppurtunities get to play, but even the backup goalies are D1 players and pretty sure when college players get pushed by 18 year olds, the pride and competitive fire kicks in and there is legit hockey played...at least that's what I saw against the Badgers.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

I'm a little suprised at some of the tone here in the post mortem. Why give Chuck grief over being too much of a "fan" for not being "critical" of the team?

If you are going to pass yourself off as a reporter of sorts, you need to maintain some level of objectivity - even if you are a really big fan. Balance is good and I haven't seen a lot of balance. I've seen what appears to be someone who may be just a little too close to the situation to maintain objectivity.

There has been an ongoing debate amongst us for a few years now with some pointing out flaws and certain disturbing trends and others saying that there's nothing to see here and everything is just fine - even implying (if not saying) that some of the naysayers just don't get it or don't know the things that others know.

It's okay to yell "fire" when the theater is actually on fire.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

The last 8 weeks have really showed me the team is on the right track, they just took a ton of time to to figure this gig out defensively. Offensively, they need help, and Kerdiles and Zulinick are just what they need. Rumpel is under-rated in the big picture, like a hidden gem. McCabe is the next Schultz, he's so stinking young yet, born in 93. The next 2 years have the makings of some exciting clubs.

I did not like the article Baggott wrote about First Star last week. He was basically egging him on to call himself a flight risk, I think he just did it to stir the pot. Jerk.

I did Chuck's live chat over parts of the last 3 games, and Kerdiles showed up on the chat to say hi to all the fans and see how is boys were doing. It was really cool to chat with him. Kerdiles is very pumped up to get to Madison this summer and start working with the boys.

 

[Gandalf the Red]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Kevin Schulze is no loser either, he is t-9th in the USHL in defenseman scoring w/ 12 assists on the PP for Omaha. I'm guessing he isn't the talent that Wittchow is, but he adds some solid depth to the blue line. Haven't been to a single USHL game this year unfortunately.

Next season's recruiting class should be one of the top 5 in the country.

I think having 4 solid lines next season will be a huge bonus. Playing time will be tight. I'm just throwing this out there for some lines:

Mersch/Zengerle/Barnes
LeBate/Kerdiles/Lee
Navin/Zulinick/Woods
R Little/Meuer/Paape

And that sits Dahl and Sean Little who I both think are nice grinders/PKers. When the Badgers 3rd and 4th lines are superior to other teams, I think that makes a huge difference. The 3rd and 4th lines in 2006 and 2010 were both great, and we all know where that went. Most of the WCHA or soon Big 10 teams are going to have nice top lines, it is how you counter them at home, and take advantage of extra talent in general when you have it in excess.

And I agree w/ Gurt. There is no reason to not be positive about OUR team, but I like to be a realist and there are some issues w/ the program that we shouldn't have to talk about continually. I don't think the movie theater is quite on fire yet though. To Wojo's points, I was thought home ice was w/ in grasp, and really it was. They win one game at Tech, win one game at home vs SCSU and get another point somewhere, we are all at the KC this weekend, watching the Men's team, not just the Women's.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Gandalf...I think we are agreeing...Badgers were a fringe home ice team that ended up just on the wrong edge of that. In the end, about where I expected them to be given the roster that they opened the season with. Had they turned the corner a month earlier in the season, they probably would have been hosting a playoff series and on the NCAA playoff bubble.

If Zengerle returns and there are no departures other then Schultz/Springer...the Badgers are a very good team that certainly should be a home playoff team that should also be a factor in the top third of the league. Some good fortune with injuries and a few bounces may have them as one of the top conference teams. Lose Zengerle and everyone has to slot up a spot in roles and it gets a little tougher....still should be a top 6 team that can make some noise.

 

[Gandalf the Red]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Gandalf...I think we are agreeing...Badgers were a fringe home ice team that ended up just on the wrong edge of that. In the end, about where I expected them to be given the roster that they opened the season with. Had they turned the corner a month earlier in the season, they probably would have been hosting a playoff series and on the NCAA playoff bubble.

If Zengerle returns and there are no departures other then Schultz/Springer...the Badgers are a very good team that certainly should be a home playoff team that should also be a factor in the top third of the league. Some good fortune with injuries and a few bounces may have them as one of the top conference teams. Lose Zengerle and everyone has to slot up a spot in roles and it gets a little tougher....still should be a top 6 team that can make some noise.

We are in agreement. Everything you posted is in line with my thoughts, especially for next season.

And I think Timothy A is right too, Baggot just wanted to stir the pot on Zengerle. I think any knowledgable fan knows he very well could leave, but he seems firm in this commitment to wanting to come back. Like he said, he hasn't even played in the NCAA tourney yet, and wants to accomplish something here in that regard. Maybe he wants to try to win the Hobey too, and feeding Kerdiles on the PP next year, while also making sick moves around entire defenses, he should certainly have a shot.

This is what Kyle Turris would have looked like as a sophomore if he wouldn't have bailed for a career as a struggling NHL player. Must say, the last group of early departures have certainly known when to go, and makes Turris' departure 4 years ago that much more glaring as an error.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Chuck - all due respect, but at some point you're no longer "covering" the Badgers and instead are writing a fan blog.

I mean, when's the last time you had anything negative to say?

re: Chuck - I imagine he'll never share a negative thought so he can continue to have access to the players or recruits

If you are going to pass yourself off as a reporter of sorts, you need to maintain some level of objectivity - even if you are a really big fan. Balance is good and I haven't seen a lot of balance. I've seen what appears to be someone who may be just a little too close to the situation to maintain objectivity.

I find some of these comments to be laughable. I'm willing to accept criticism, but I'm not willing to accept nonsense.

Because I'm realistic with this team, and don't go throwing players and coaches under the bus after every loss doesn't mean I'm not objective. I'll call the team out when they deserve to be called out. I've done it before, and I'll do it again. I don't feel an incessant need to whine and complain about this program on an every day basis like some around these parts which is not only annoying, but it's gotten very tiresome.

Here's an example of being critical of the team when it's necessary. LINK.

But you guys are right, I'm just trying to protect my connections to the program. Absolutely laughable.

 

[Innova]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Hey, that's my schtick.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

As the great Puck Swami used to say, "Nothing turns a fanbase 'salty' like a losing season."

I'm a big fan of Chuck and have always been amazed and the depth and breadth of his recruiting reporting. I would say that a lot of what he brings to the table is "reporting," but an important distinction is that he probably doesn't have to abide by the same rules and restrictions as the mainstream media. [fact checking, two sources, liability concerns, ect]

LetsGoDU doesn't report much or anything, we never track down stories via email or cell phone and probably sit on 95% of the juicy stuff that rolls our way until the mainstream media gets ahold of it.

If you think the mainstream college hockey beat writers aren't controlled, intimidated or bullied by the local coaches/SID's you are crazy. Whether its free food in the press box, access or denying access to players or slipping out gossip the coaches control the situation. The mainstream media plays by a different and stricter set of rules than the bloggers. This is how Hammy is able to slip around the system and break all sorts of inside Gopher related gossip. Off the record access to parents and players that the local writers can't match.

The college hockey world is so small that the schools can control the media. College football and hoops on the otherhand is the wild, wild west and anything goes thanks to ESPN and the media frenzy that accompanies it.