Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

[RonWolf]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Originally Posted by Gurtholfin
Chuck - all due respect, but at some point you're no longer "covering" the Badgers and instead are writing a fan blog.
I mean, when's the last time you had anything negative to say?

Originally Posted by solovsfett
re: Chuck - I imagine he'll never share a negative thought so he can continue to have access to the players or recruits

Originally Posted by Gurtholfin
If you are going to pass yourself off as a reporter of sorts, you need to maintain some level of objectivity - even if you are a really big fan. Balance is good and I haven't seen a lot of balance. I've seen what appears to be someone who may be just a little too close to the situation to maintain objectivity.

Who do you guys think you are? This guy researches and provides information for us to read about a subject that we all love, and all you guys want to do is attack him? I'm guessing this all stems from differences of opinion on how this season went. I disagree with Chuck, I wasn't to happy how this all went down, they should have been better, IN MY OPINION! So agree to disagree, tell him to "go kick rocks," but why bash a guy for how he writes who is basically the only way we get any Badger Hockey information, year round no less? And last I checked, it's FREE and you have the ability to NOT READ IT!

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

As the great Puck Swami used to say, "Nothing turns a fanbase 'salty' like a losing season."

Puck Swami, a blast from the past, such a great, level headed poster. I always enjoyed his perspective. Dare I ask ("use to say") what he's up to these days?

So has the ink dried on Schultz's contract yet?

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Puck Swami, a blast from the past, such a great, level headed poster. I always enjoyed his perspective. Dare I ask ("use to say") what he's up to these days?

Lurking. Doubtful that anything college hockey related that happens on the internet escapes his attention.

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Probably sit on 95% of the juicy stuff that rolls our way until the mainstream media gets ahold of it.

For all concerned, it is probably a good thing much of the juicy stuff that insiders hear remains (semi) private.

I suspect that much of Chuck's issue is that he becomes way to emotionally involved with the team (player and/or parents) and this is going to influence how he posts his criticism and how he responds to criticism from others. Much of the time it becomes a very tight balancing act to attempt to correct misconceptions while trying to maintaining the confidentiality of where information has come from and not give away why you know something.

I miss having Swami around, but I totally understand why he has decided to distance himself from this place.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

This isn't the 1980's or early 1990's, the game has changed so examples from that time period are not particularly relevant to the issues of today.

It's not EVERY freshman, but it hold for all but the most exceptional of talent goes through an adjustment process to acclimate to the increased speed and skill of the players around them. To go from watching the MN HS tournament, to the WCHA F5, to a MN Wild game at the X over the course of a week and the difference in the speed of the game between each level is astounding.

Earl was NOT a complete player when he stepped on the campus, he had an electric playmaking ability but he was also nearly a complete defensive disaster. With very rare exceptions, every single player who comes to UW has areas of his game that needs improvement. The NTDP-U18 team has some of the most talented US players in their age group, yet they are only a middle of the pack USHL team, it isn't that they lack talent, it is that they lack experience. That's the exact same issue that this years Badger team faced. Being a successful team requires that that little things be done that don't directly show up on the stats sheet. You can't just measure how good or valuable a player is by the number of points that he accumulates.

How many true freshmen play in football every year, why is it common practice to redshirt your first season, and why do so many players enroll in January so that they can have spring practices to adjust to the college game?

I've been thinking more about this since this morning and my sort of ad-hoc post. I believe one part of (this year's) problem is there wasn't a difference maker in this frosh class. if there's a Zengerle-type there bango, UW is in the top 6 and things are pretty good, or at least they'd be getting closer to where we'd like them to be annually which is re-loading (or bringing in 1-2 difference makers per class)

the other (and one you've made me think about much moreso now, so thanks) is that the philosophy of bringing in kids straight from high school has really changed the team from anything I may have seen before in 27 years of watching UW hockey. I'm not sure I can say I'm 100% on-board w/the argument that these kids need seasoning of 1-year or more (given Minnesota made it work for at least a decade w/Woog and frosh straight in from HS, Bonin, Crowley, and about a zillion others) to get acclimated, but...

I'll use Labate as an example. Highly touted, at times looked very solid, at times looked like he got knocked off the puck very easily and could have used a year in juniors. Maybe Daly is the same in terms of needing a year of juniors. I didn't see enough of him in the 2nd half to say really. I guess the jury really is out until the mid-point of next season.

anyway, I enjoy these conversations cause I know we all LOVE UW hockey and it's good to get some other opinions out there always

btw - I really miss Joeyv, I wonder if he still lurks here and if so what his thoughts are on this past season.

re: Chuck - I didn't intend for that earlier statement re: sources to be a dig. I guess I find (and maybe Gurt as well) that sometimes it feels very pollyanish the drumbeat that everything is fine, I suppose just as much as myself or Gurt or anyone else's criticism comes across as overbearing, or incessant.

it's why I like reading the gopher threads. those guys can be merciless as hell on their team but always seem to come back and give credit where it's due (for the most part)

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

So has the ink dried on Schultz's contract yet?

I hope not...As a Blackhawk fan, I would love to see him pull a Wheeler and not sign and thus become a free agent in the fall. Hoping he sees Fowler and Vishnovsky playing a role he is well suited for with Vatanen in the pipeline and close to NHL ready also. At least I can hope until the deal is announced in the next day or two.

 

[MW4Bucky&SNC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Why are some folks hammering Chuck? I find his stuff informative. There is no doubt he's a big fan of UW hockey as well. If you feel like it's too much of a fan I guess that's your perogative. A bad season makes me a little grumpy as well but I'm not going to take it out on Chuck.

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

the other (and one you've made me think about much moreso now, so thanks) is that the philosophy of bringing in kids straight from high school has really changed the team from anything I may have seen before in 27 years of watching UW hockey. I'm not sure I can say I'm 100% on-board w/the argument that these kids need seasoning of 1-year or more (given Minnesota made it work for at least a decade w/Woog and frosh straight in from HS, Bonin, Crowley, and about a zillion others) to get acclimated, but...

Woog hasn't been a coach in over a decade and part of MN's decline during the late Woog years was that they were bringing in true freshmen (many who were busts) while other teams were having players season in juniors (and letting juniors wash out some of the busts) and while MN still brings in a number of players direct from HS, they tend to be 1st and 2nd round NHL draft picks - The types of players who generally have the natural skill level to let them get away with make some less than idea decisions. In the past that is what UW has done, but that appears to be changing with Butters.

I still don't see any advantage in bringing in non-elite players direct from HS to be role or depth players. Between a couple years of physical maturity and the experience gained in a year or two of juniors is going to give the 22 or 23 year old an edge over the 19 or 20 year old of similar skill level.

I believe that Cody Strang would have potentially been that difference maker in this seasons freshman class but he wasn't able to make it through the NCAA Clearinghouse.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

For all concerned, it is probably a good thing much of the juicy stuff that insiders hear remains (semi) private.

I suspect that much of Chuck's issue is that he becomes way to emotionally involved with the team (player and/or parents) and this is going to influence how he posts his criticism and how he responds to criticism from others. Much of the time it becomes a very tight balancing act to attempt to correct misconceptions while trying to maintaining the confidentiality of where information has come from and not give away why you know something.

While there is no doubt that there's a don't-bite-the-hand-that-feeds element, let's not forget that Chuck is a pretty optimistic guy to begin with. Chuck (and others with his opinion) may seem to have a viewpoint on the future that I think is too rosy and happy given what we've seen, but I'm not about to think that he doesn't genuinely believe what he's saying.

Sure, keeping sources happy is part of what he has to do to get what he does, but even I'm not so cynical as to think that there isn't some real belief behind the "everything is fine" mantra we've been seeing.

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

While there is no doubt that there's a don't-bite-the-hand-that-feeds element, let's not forget that Chuck is a pretty optimistic guy to begin with. Chuck (and others with his opinion) may seem to have a viewpoint on the future that I think is too rosy and happy given what we've seen, but I'm not about to think that he doesn't genuinely believe what he's saying.

Sure, keeping sources happy is part of what he has to do to get what he does, but even I'm not so cynical as to think that there isn't some real belief behind the "everything is fine" mantra we've been seeing.

My points got crossed a bit.

Honestly, the players may not read this board, but their friends and family do. It's easy to spout criticism on the anonymity of the internet, it another thing to have to answer for that criticism in real life. It means that any criticism has to be both measured and fair. I don't think that Chuck is positive because of this or because he wants people to keep talking to him (because once you are in, the parents/families/friends can be rather blunt about the teams performance) but because he get emotionally attached to the team, he defends criticism that he considers unfair or excessive with more zeal than would typically be expected of a pure journalist.

My other point was that it is an extraordinarily frustrating eperence to sit in-front of the computer, read things that you know are completely incorrect, and not be able to directly respond without giving away information that was passed on to you in confidence. The balance between informing others and protecting the privacy of the players is a very difficult tightrope to walk.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

(because once you are in, the parents/families/friends can be rather blunt about the teams performance) but because he get emotionally attached to the team, he defends criticism that he considers unfair or excessive with more zeal than would typically be expected of a pure journalist.

I certainly understand that.

I coach and have coached youth hockey for the past 8 years with numerous former Badger players including Oz (briefly) when he was here as his kid was on my kid's team from 05-07.

My Friday seats are in the parent's section and I've gotten to chat with several of them over the past ten years that we've had those seats. I've gotten to know on many, many occasions what these parents thought of specific team mates of their sons - often times quite unflattering.

A very prominent parent once told me that Eaves didn't talk to him once in the years that his son was here. Etc, etc, etc...

It's quite amazing what ALL of these people will tell you, once they feel like they know you, even if only just barely. Badger parents? Just the same as every other hockey parent anywhere ever. It's hilarious to see how similar they are to the rest of us when they're watching their kid play. You've got encouragers, complainers, worriers, strong silent types, blamers, cheerleaders...

I've never brought any of that specific information to this forum, even though if I did it would be pretty hard for most of them to tie it directly to me. Still, I wouldn't breech that implied confidence and I only have 1/100th of the inside dirt/info/scoop that Chuck has. So I get it.

I have no problem if he feels uncomfortable "throwing anyone under the bus," but I'm tired of having a rosy picture painted for me that doesn't match what my eyes are seeing. I may not have much (any) inside info or access to the team, but I've been playing hockey for 30+ years, watching for 30+ years and coaching for 8. I feel like I can decipher what I'm seeing without being scolded or patronized.

My point is, if you want to be that guy (not you) who is the go between and the scoop guy, then it might be best to stay above the fray. If you come down into the pit, then you're fair game and we're gonna argue it out. And if I detect bias, I'm gonna call it as I see it.

I stand by my earlier comments.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

People in general are not accepting of other's opinions, so we duke it out to try and convince eachother we're right and they are wrong. It's ok to have different opinions, you just can't get all ****y about it.

 

[wjefwhite]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Originally Posted by Gurtholfin
Chuck - all due respect, but at some point you're no longer "covering" the Badgers and instead are writing a fan blog.
I mean, when's the last time you had anything negative to say?

Originally Posted by solovsfett
re: Chuck - I imagine he'll never share a negative thought so he can continue to have access to the players or recruits

Originally Posted by Gurtholfin
If you are going to pass yourself off as a reporter of sorts, you need to maintain some level of objectivity - even if you are a really big fan. Balance is good and I haven't seen a lot of balance. I've seen what appears to be someone who may be just a little too close to the situation to maintain objectivity.

Who do you guys think you are? This guy researches and provides information for us to read about a subject that we all love, and all you guys want to do is attack him? I'm guessing this all stems from differences of opinion on how this season went. I disagree with Chuck, I wasn't to happy how this all went down, they should have been better, IN MY OPINION! So agree to disagree, tell him to "go kick rocks," but why bash a guy for how he writes who is basically the only way we get any Badger Hockey information, year round no less? And last I checked, it's FREE and you have the ability to NOT READ IT!

Exactly Ron Wolf. Chuck is our best source.

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

People in general are not accepting of other's opinions, so we duke it out to try and convince eachother we're right and they are wrong. It's ok to have different opinions, you just can't get all ****y about it.

I thought that's what the internet was invented for?

I remember that some people were very down on the team going into the 08-09 season after less than inspiring results from the 06-07 season and the 07-08 seasons, but the 08-09 and 09-10 seasons were much better than the preceding two years.

Overall Records:
06-07: 19-18- 4 .512 10-11: 21-16- 4 .561
07-08: 16-17- 7 .488 11-12: 17-18- 2 .486
08-09: 20-16- 4 .550 12-13: ????
09-10: 28-11- 4 .698 13-14: ????

WCHA Records:
06-07: 12-13- 3 .482 10-11: 12-13- 3 .482
07-08: 09-12- 7 .446 11-12: 11-15- 2 .429
08-09: 14-11- 3 .554 12-13: ????
09-10: 17-08- 3 .661 13-14: ????


The parallels are striking to me, particularly how close the records are from year to year.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Big afternoon for Badger hockey news....

1.) I spoke with a source close to Schultz on Tuesday afternoon who indicated to me that Justin is currently weighing his options, and that no decision was imminent.

It was thought by many that Schultz would sign with the Ducks immediately at the outset of the Wisconsin season, and jump straight to the NHL. According to sources, don't expect that to happen any time soon.

LINK

2.) Apparently freshman defenseman Patrick Daly has left the program. Apparently wants to focus on school.

LINK

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Big afternoon for Badger hockey news....

1.) I spoke with a source close to Schultz on Tuesday afternoon who indicated to me that Justin is currently weighing his options, and that no decision was imminent.

It was thought by many that Schultz would sign with the Ducks immediately at the outset of the Wisconsin season, and jump straight to the NHL. According to sources, don't expect that to happen any time soon.

LINK

2.) Apparently freshman defenseman Patrick Daly has left the program. Apparently wants to focus on school.

LINK

wow....highly unexpected that Daly would leave...
Shulze
Wittchow
Ramage
Simonelli
Faust
Drake
McCabe

w/only 7 you've got to think Drake gets some time (he looked good in the two appearances I recall earlier this season) and maybe they move R. Little back to D
too bad as Daly appeared to have great wheels

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

2.) Apparently freshman defenseman Patrick Daly has left the program. Apparently wants to focus on school.

LINK

I have to wonder if Daly would have been better served spending this season in juniors playing every night rather than only playing in 11 games for the Badgers (and getting limited icetime in those 11 games).

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

I have to wonder if Daly would have been better served spending this season in juniors playing every night rather than only playing in 11 games for the Badgers (and getting limited icetime in those 11 games).

Ideally, yes. Although if you remember, he was given a scholarship as a replacement for Troy Hesketh.

 

[burd]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Originally Posted by Gurtholfin
Chuck - all due respect, but at some point you're no longer "covering" the Badgers and instead are writing a fan blog.
I mean, when's the last time you had anything negative to say?

Originally Posted by solovsfett
re: Chuck - I imagine he'll never share a negative thought so he can continue to have access to the players or recruits

Originally Posted by Gurtholfin
If you are going to pass yourself off as a reporter of sorts, you need to maintain some level of objectivity - even if you are a really big fan. Balance is good and I haven't seen a lot of balance. I've seen what appears to be someone who may be just a little too close to the situation to maintain objectivity.

Who do you guys think you are? This guy researches and provides information for us to read about a subject that we all love, and all you guys want to do is attack him? I'm guessing this all stems from differences of opinion on how this season went. I disagree with Chuck, I wasn't to happy how this all went down, they should have been better, IN MY OPINION! So agree to disagree, tell him to "go kick rocks," but why bash a guy for how he writes who is basically the only way we get any Badger Hockey information, year round no less? And last I checked, it's FREE and you have the ability to NOT READ IT!

You have to keep in mind that Gurt is Cousin Eddy to us all.

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XXI - For every dark night, there's a brighter day

Ideally, yes. Although if you remember, he was given a scholarship as a replacement for Troy Hesketh.

I understand that, the need for a team to have 8 D on the roster, and the numbers game wrt playtime.

While I can understand the desire to focus on class, I have to wonder if the issue is that he was just having a hard time adjusting to the demands of college hockey and discoraged by being a healthy scratch for the first time. I guess that I wouldn't be shocked to see him end up on a USHL roster next season.