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Wisconsin Hockey 22-23 Empty Dreams & Empty Seats

Wisconsin's away conference record under TG (Reg Season Only):

16/17: 7-3
17/18: 4-7-1
18/19: 3-6-3
19/20: 2-8-2
20/21: 9-3
21/22: 1-11
22/23: 0-11 (1 game to be determined)
 
GoBucky18 said:
Announcers are the PSU anouncers, and they mentioned Lucious wasn't in the lineup again, but made no mention as to why. If he isn't hurt, there is absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be on the ice. I'm not all concerned about Moe today; since he played the whole game last night, I figured they all knew Mac was getting the start tonight.
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It didn’t take long to realize the dunces were PSU homers. Wow they were bad.
 
solovsfett said:
This team WITH a good hire is 3-4 years from being a contender and that’s if they get great recruits. Without a good hire No-one will be left to post on this thread.
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I dunno I don't think it necessarily has to be 3-4 years. If they get a coach that can get the guys to play with heart and passion and not be idiots in the defensive zone that should increase the wins quite a bit alone.

Plus... Mankato doesnt have a bunch of draft picks do they? Im guessing there are plenty of teams that dont have a bunch of picks who do well. I don't know how many NHL guys we have compared to others bc I stopped paying attention due to the Dumpster fire.

These are kids and momentum and confidence is big. If they can get that and play hard and within a decent system... I don't see why we can't have some fun next year watching them.
 
They need to hire a guy who has had success before with less. Then give him the Wisconsin name and budget and fan base and let him go with it. Like a fickell or fleck or Brian Kelley in football.
 
Timothy A said:
The portal can accelerate the talent retooling but not a culture change, if there is a major issue there.
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Of course the team culture is terrible. From what little I’ve wasted my time watching, the team plays with zero unity and cohesion.

Individually, each player on the team is talented. Regardless of how terrible the results on the ice have been Wisconsin has never not been able to bring in talented players.

The issue going back to at least the mid-‘90s is getting those players to play as a team where they don’t just maximize each individuals talents, but actually exceed the sum of the individual parts.

As the game has evolved over the past 25 to 30 years, playing system hockey has become much more critical to team success. This requires players to to be willing to put their individual desires and goals aside for the good of the team. The irony is that once everyone puts the team first, it becomes much more likely that the individual goals are reached. It’s become almost impossible in this day and age to overcome a lack of unity through overwhelming individual talents, as the seen in the reduction in UW success over the past 30 years.

Occasionally during the late Sauer and early Eaves years, they managed to develop enough chemistry and cohesion along with the right mix of players to find success, but they could never establish a sustainable culture to transfer that team first attitude to the next class.

The current staff has to go and I don’t really care who replaces them. They need to first someone who can install a system and motivate the players to embrace that system. I really thought Eaves was making progress to that, but cracks hit roughy after the 2006 championship and fell completely apart after 2010 when Eaves hired Bill Butters.

I really believe the TG and Oz do believe that enough talent can overcome any issues, but if you don’t put that talent in a system where everyone is working towards common goals, the team isn’t going to fine much, if any, true success.
 
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Almington said:
Of course the team culture is terrible. From what little I’ve wasted my time watching, the team plays with zero unity and cohesion.

Individually, each player on the team is talented. Regardless of how terrible the results on the ice have been Wisconsin has never not been able to bring in talented players.

The issue going back to at least the mid-‘90s is getting those players to play as a team where they don’t just maximize each individuals talents, but actually exceed the sum of the individual parts.

As the game has evolved over the past 25 to 30 years, playing system hockey has become much more critical to team success. This requires players to to be willing to put their individual desires and goals aside for the good of the team. The irony is that once everyone puts the team first, it becomes much more likely that the individual goals are reached. It’s become almost impossible in this day and age to overcome a lack of unity through overwhelming individual talents, as the seen in the reduction in UW success over the past 30 years.

Occasionally during the late Sauer and early Eaves years, they managed to develop enough chemistry and cohesion along with the right mix of players to find success, but they could never establish a sustainable culture to transfer that team first attitude to the next class.

The current staff has to go and I don’t really care who replaces them. They need to first someone who can install a system and motivate the players to embrace that system. I really thought Eaves was making progress to that, but cracks hit roughy after the 2006 championship and fell completely apart after 2010 when Eaves hired Bill Butters.

I really believe the TG and Oz do believe that enough talent can overcome any issues, but if you don’t put that talent in a system where everyone is working towards common goals, the team isn’t going to fine much, if any, true success.
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Excellent analysis!!
 
druzy192 said:
They need to hire a guy who has had success before with less. Then give him the Wisconsin name and budget and fan base...
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Not to repeat myself but that guy in Columbus...

Are you guys looking for someone with HC experience but not anyone from out east? I guess the WMU coach would be another. Hastings, Shawhan, Larson. No idea what they make compared to what you would offer.
 
Just to build on the comments related to TG not appearing to have a clue around why his teams are so bad … he really, truly seems to think it is 100% about the offensive talent level of his players.

Last Saturday, at Michigan State, TG was interviewed between periods and Broph got as close as the Posick/Broph duo are going to get to asking a difficult question, and he was gently asked why the last two years have not lived up to the expectations of the Cole/Dylan/Linus/TPB team. He was given plenty of time to answer and, as has been the case in the past, he identified only one thing (and he repeated this excuse a few times) – he was surprised by how many players left the team (he said 8) after the season. Apparently the only one he wasn’t surprised by was Cole.

Even though I’ve heard him say this before, for some reason the absurdity of that statement has stuck with me all week. I think because it’s seems so misguided on every level.

1. I don’t remember being that surprised by anyone who left and I don’t recall anyone on this site or in the media being surprised either? By the end of the season Dylan H looked like a man among boys and he was a 1[SUP]st[/SUP] rounder, I wasn’t shocked by that and I hope TG isn’t recruiting 1[SUP]st[/SUP] rounders and expecting them to stay 3 or 4 years.

Linus W and Ty PB were seniors and didn’t take advantage of their free COVID year. That’s impressive if TG’s recruiting strategy during his first few years as coach somehow anticipated the free COVID year and he was recruiting around the expectation that all of his seniors would come back for the 2021-22 season (Tyler I, Josh Ess, and Tarek B actually did, which runs counter to TG’s narrative around unexpected early departures destroying his team; there’s a decent argument that he’s benefited more from players STAYING an extra year, than he has been hurt by players leaving early who realistically could have stayed an extra year. Especially if you factor in Dominick, Jack, and Brock this year).

So who does that leave as a legit surprise? Just 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] rounder Junior Ty Emberson? Ty is good. Good enough to make a 10-24-3 team a winner?

2. This might be what bothers me the most, even if TG got what he wanted, and everyone who could have stayed last year did, that doesn’t explain this season. During the interview TG was clearly stating that THIS year’s team is struggling because of the players who “surprised” him by leaving early TWO years ago?!? The only two players who could even be on this year’s team still are Dylan and Ty E. No way TG was thinking he’d get a full four years from Dylan and 5 years from Ty.

3. My last point has been made by lots of people already – lack of talent hasn’t been this team’s biggest issue the past two years. I don’t even think it’s a top 5 reason. It’s coaching. It’s TG’s shocking inability to get his team to play with consistent effort and passion, it’s his inability to coach an effective system (offensively and defensively), it’s his inability to develop players, it’s his inability to fix problems over the course of season, it’s his inability to coach a team that doesn’t routinely make mental errors, etc.
 
The 7th Defenseman said:
Just to build on the comments related to TG not appearing to have a clue around why his teams are so bad … he really, truly seems to think it is 100% about the offensive talent level of his players.

Last Saturday, at Michigan State, TG was interviewed between periods and Broph got as close as the Posick/Broph duo are going to get to asking a difficult question, and he was gently asked why the last two years have not lived up to the expectations of the Cole/Dylan/Linus/TPB team. He was given plenty of time to answer and, as has been the case in the past, he identified only one thing (and he repeated this excuse a few times) – he was surprised by how many players left the team (he said 8) after the season. Apparently the only one he wasn’t surprised by was Cole.

3. My last point has been made by lots of people already – lack of talent hasn’t been this team’s biggest issue the past two years. I don’t even think it’s a top 5 reason. It’s coaching. It’s TG’s shocking inability to get his team to play with consistent effort and passion, it’s his inability to coach an effective system (offensively and defensively), it’s his inability to develop players, it’s his inability to fix problems over the course of season, it’s his inability to coach a team that doesn’t routinely make mental errors, etc.
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He's so close to the problem he doesn't see it or he would figure out a way to fix it. Brandt being new may have ideas to fix this, but he's in no position to impose his ideas onto the team.

Is the moral of the story not to hire someone for a position whose been fired from that position elsewhere? It's not that it never works out, but the odds are against it.
 
WiscTJK said:
Or is it this: https://twitter.com/JimPolzinWSJ/status/1629542125447544832
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This is the one I was talking about. It's a sad deal for everyone involved. The players themselves must know something isn't right with the leadership and I hope they all look forward to a new start with a new staff instead of just bailing into the portal. These guys can succeed with the right leadership. Of course if some of the guys are the problem, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 
So do I go to Ann Arbor to finally watch the stake get driven through and the end take place?

My first Badgers game as a kid was to watch the Don Morton era end, a 31-3 loss to Mochigan St.

Shall I make it 2 for 2?
 
Timothy A said:
So does it happen Monday AM, or is there an fall/winter sports evaluation window that opens and they leave him out hanging for weeks? It looks like they have until 6/30 to do it on the cheap.
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That's a good question. They usually do their press conferences on Monday of each week. If they are swept, season closeout will be Sunday and my guess is that TG will not be made available to the press. If the series goes 3 games, I'd surmise that he gets fired on Tuesday. Winning the series only delays it a week because they would have to play at Minnesota. If they let this linger for weeks, they only hurt themselves more. The search needs to happen ASAP after the season ends to lessen impact to recruiting and to have a better candidate pool. They may not announce a replacement until after the NCAA tourney, or (and I'm being facetious) until Ohio State's season ends :P
 
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