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Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

That’s a double edged sword. JD’s biggest issue is discipline, which probably does need more games played to improve.

But fewer games means more practices, more time to develop skills and techniques. JD might not need that as much, but most players his age (even really really good ones) do.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Rizzo to nodak. **** UW could have used him or Cruikshank this season.
 
Ronny Wolf said:
I would’ve thought having Cruikshank here would’ve helped up land him. Still got some studs in the pipeline. Would’ve thought this staff could’ve landed him.
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I still have confidence in the staff but it’s been weakened by recent news and last season’s performance. Right now they need to get in the NCAA and win a game, show on the ice and not on paper that this team is going places.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

digitalbooya said:
Want the high end recruits? Win and they will come.
Click to expand...

Despite solo's enthusiasm for this statement, it doesn't make any sense. Logically, you're saying if you just win with bad players, good players will want to come. Well, if you can just win with bad players, you don't need anybody else. Presumably, you need good players to win in the first place. So obviously you need to get good players to start with. And then, sure, it follows that more good players would want to come.

This is going to be a difficult season. Very tough schedule and a very young (albeit talented) team. I think we're really going to find out just how good our staff is at making players better, fast. The first 8 are all the NC games on the schedule and if this young team doesn't start well it's going to be a real slog to get anywhere in the PWR from there. I'd agree that if UW can't have some measure of success this year, it would have a detrimental effect on recruiting going forward. Some more of the shine may come off the staff, so to speak.

Tony made a number of bold statements early on about their recruiting power both publicly and privately that I think were fine to make, and they certainly signed a lot of 15-16 year old stars to back it up. But as MN is well aware, the 15-year-old superstar often doesn't meet expectations, and some of the biggest stars are smart enough to stay uncommitted. Plus you have the late bloomer that at 17-19 suddenly develops and moves to the top of the heap. In today's game you have to be able to pull a couple of those guys over other schools now and then as well.

Also, just to be clear, it's crazy for UW to have any notion of the Gentleman's agreement at this point. Not saying they do, but just in case: IT IS DEAD. Get the best players!

I posed the notion in the recruiting thread that BU and DU commits weren't going to be playing for the staff that recruited them and MCR responded that in the case of BU, their best players were coasties, meaning of course, that they were unlikely targets. I agree with that as far as how it's always been. But, Tony said "we're going to get the best players!" meaning not the just best players in Chicago, St Louis, or MN, but the best. Anywhere. Where ever they are, I just hope we're taking a hard run at them.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Well stated, Wisko.

What really stands out is the Gentleman's Agreement. It's true not only in college hockey, but ALL college sports.

By the way, let's not forget what Memorial Day is about. Yep, we're having Usinger brats on the grill like millions of others, but I thank all who have served to allow us to live the way we do and to allow me overeat bratwurst.
 
Wisko McBadgerton said:
Despite solo's enthusiasm for this statement, it doesn't make any sense. Logically, you're saying if you just win with bad players, good players will want to come. Well, if you can just win with bad players, you don't need anybody else. Presumably, you need good players to win in the first place. So obviously you need to get good players to start with. And then, sure, it follows that more good players would want to come.

This is going to be a difficult season. Very tough schedule and a very young (albeit talented) team. I think we're really going to find out just how good our staff is at making players better, fast. The first 8 are all the NC games on the schedule and if this young team doesn't start well it's going to be a real slog to get anywhere in the PWR from there. I'd agree that if UW can't have some measure of success this year, it would have a detrimental effect on recruiting going forward. Some more of the shine may come off the staff, so to speak.

Tony made a number of bold statements early on about their recruiting power both publicly and privately that I think were fine to make, and they certainly signed a lot of 15-16 year old stars to back it up. But as MN is well aware, the 15-year-old superstar often doesn't meet expectations, and some of the biggest stars are smart enough to stay uncommitted. Plus you have the late bloomer that at 17-19 suddenly develops and moves to the top of the heap. In today's game you have to be able to pull a couple of those guys over other schools now and then as well.

Also, just to be clear, it's crazy for UW to have any notion of the Gentleman's agreement at this point. Not saying they do, but just in case: IT IS DEAD. Get the best players!

I posed the notion in the recruiting thread that BU and DU commits weren't going to be playing for the staff that recruited them and MCR responded that in the case of BU, their best players were coasties, meaning of course, that they were unlikely targets. I agree with that as far as how it's always been. But, Tony said "we're going to get the best players!" meaning not the just best players in Chicago, St Louis, or MN, but the best. Anywhere. Where ever they are, I just hope we're taking a hard run at them.
Click to expand...

I’m agreeing with the sentiment this team and staff needs to win now, no excuses. No tough schedule bs, no early departures complaints, no alibi’s and no excuses. Get in the ncaa’s and win at least one game. Anything less in year 3 and I would say this is a big disappointment.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

I don't know... Doesn't it strike you guys that Tony has been on more of a 5 year plan from the start? I think there are things he's done (roster, playing time, other stuff) that to me hasn't indicated it's a big "win now" kind of priority with him, but rather a long view. I've wondered if that sort of thing (call it long term thinking, or lack of urgency, depending on your POV) didn't seep into the locker room a little bit this year.


As far as results this upcoming year-- well, there's almost nothing about college hockey that is the same as it was 15 years ago. When Eaves came in he could add 17-18 year olds and get them in quickly. After one poor year he turned it around pretty well. Now, 18 year olds have been committed for 3-4 years already. It's crazy. Tony's first real, straight up, head to head, wide open recruiting class won't actually even get here until next year.

And then there's the B1G and parity and all the other stuff. Last year the B1G had one of the best non-conference win percentages of any conference in the last 30 years. What that meant was that if UW went 4-2 instead of 0-6 to close out the season, they still would have been in the mix because B1G PWR power was so high. Can't count on that every year. (although I still expect the B1G to be good this year) This year we could be a very good team by February, but if we start 3-5 (which isn't inconceivable even with a good team) then the rest of the B1G better win a lot of NC games or we're in deep trouble for the post season. No real reason Duluth should have been in the post season this year. Should have been sitting home behind a couple other teams, but they got lucky and things fell their way. But after they won it, nobody would say they weren't one of the best teams in the country. Today, getting to the tournament or not isn't the same measure of how good a team is the way it was just 10 years back. Very good teams are now out every year, so I'd have to base my judgement on something more than just that, I think.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

MadCityRich said:
Well stated, Wisko.

What really stands out is the Gentleman's Agreement. It's true not only in college hockey, but ALL college sports.

By the way, let's not forget what Memorial Day is about. Yep, we're having Usinger brats on the grill like millions of others, but I thank all who have served to allow us to live the way we do and to allow me overeat bratwurst.
Click to expand...

Agree with all this 100%. :)
 
Wisko, what I’m saying is that you have to win with the average to good players that we can guarantee will come and then after that we can expect *elite* *high end* players to be much more willing to play here.
 
Wisko McBadgerton said:
I don't know... Doesn't it strike you guys that Tony has been on more of a 5 year plan from the start? I think there are things he's done (roster, playing time, other stuff) that to me hasn't indicated it's a big "win now" kind of priority with him, but rather a long view. I've wondered if that sort of thing (call it long term thinking, or lack of urgency, depending on your POV) didn't seep into the locker room a little bit this year.


As far as results this upcoming year-- well, there's almost nothing about college hockey that is the same as it was 15 years ago. When Eaves came in he could add 17-18 year olds and get them in quickly. After one poor year he turned it around pretty well. Now, 18 year olds have been committed for 3-4 years already. It's crazy. Tony's first real, straight up, head to head, wide open recruiting class won't actually even get here until next year.

And then there's the B1G and parity and all the other stuff. Last year the B1G had one of the best non-conference win percentages of any conference in the last 30 years. What that meant was that if UW went 4-2 instead of 0-6 to close out the season, they still would have been in the mix because B1G PWR power was so high. Can't count on that every year. (although I still expect the B1G to be good this year) This year we could be a very good team by February, but if we start 3-5 (which isn't inconceivable even with a good team) then the rest of the B1G better win a lot of NC games or we're in deep trouble for the post season. No real reason Duluth should have been in the post season this year. Should have been sitting home behind a couple other teams, but they got lucky and things fell their way. But after they won it, nobody would say they weren't one of the best teams in the country. Today, getting to the tournament or not isn't the same measure of how good a team is the way it was just 10 years back. Very good teams are now out every year, so I'd have to base my judgement on something more than just that, I think.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure about the five year plan given they brought in Hayton and Greenway the year prior quite late. That tells me they have a “win now” attitude. We’ll see if they get into the ncaa’s this year. It’s a crucial benchmark right now.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

digitalbooya said:
Wisko, what I’m saying is that you have to win with the average to good players that we can guarantee will come and then after that we can expect *elite* *high end* players to be much more willing to play here.
Click to expand...

Ugh. Too many brats -- I can hardly type!

I get what you're saying, I'm just not convinced it works that way entirely. The Packers sucked for 25 years and nobody wanted to play in Green Bay. Then they signed The Minister of Defense and all of that changed overnight.

Sign the best player in the country. That's the key. Then the number 2 guy suddenly starts thinking "Hey... maybe that's a not such a bad idea." Get him and #'s 3,4,5,6 all fall in line much more easily. That's the way I think it happens.

Al McGuire took over a 5 win Marquette team and had 8 wins his first year. Then he just went to Brooklyn and sold Tip Thompson on Marquette and to Georgia and did the same with Joe Thomas. His third year he won 21, his worst win total for the rest of his career. Maurice Lucas, the great Butch Lee out of Harlem, Jerome Whitehead, Bo Elllis, etc. they all followed on. The point being that you have to sell the first Big Time kid on the dream, then the next... and then the rest start to come because obviously you're going to win whether you have been before or not.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

solovsfett said:
I’m not sure about the five year plan given they brought in Hayton and Greenway the year prior quite late. That tells me they have a “win now” attitude. We’ll see if they get into the ncaa’s this year. It’s a crucial benchmark right now.
Click to expand...

I'm just hedging on that benchmark a bit because if, for example, they started slow but won 8 of 10 down the stretch and just missed by .002, I'd still probably feel pretty good about where things are going with the guys that will be following on the next year. Not going to feel good if they win 12 games. (Although that's not out of the realm of possibility, I suppose.) Probably feel even worse if they just collapse in the second half again.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Wisko McBadgerton said:
I'm just hedging on that benchmark a bit because if, for example, they started slow but won 8 of 10 down the stretch and just missed by .002, I'd still probably feel pretty good about where things are going with the guys that will be following on the next year. Not going to feel good if they win 12 games. (Although that's not out of the realm of possibility, I suppose.) Probably feel even worse if they just collapse in the second half again.
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I don't want any excuses this year. IMO, we need to see progress in year three and that means being in the top 16 /playing in the playoffs.
 
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