Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
Coal will work just fine roasting gofers to a crisp.
Coal will work just fine roasting gofers to a crisp.
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Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winning
- Thread starter KaMiGo
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Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
Sean Dhooghe getting some coverage in the Toronto Sun.
https://torontosun.com/sports/hocke...d-sean-dhooghe-chases-dream-of-playing-in-nhl
Sean Dhooghe getting some coverage in the Toronto Sun.
https://torontosun.com/sports/hocke...d-sean-dhooghe-chases-dream-of-playing-in-nhl
Most of those no-shows are probably student tickets. The student section serves as a good indicator of how tiny the fan base is becoming. There have been some "good first impression" games for the newbies with tickets who want to check it out (every little bit helps), but the amount of fans following the team as fans is pretty low. (Watch what % show up for good regular season games while school is in session, and if any are in the 2nd deck, watch how few stand.)
I've written a bazillion paragraphs about that distinction fairly recently, so I won't rehash it, but the chicken-and-the egg reality of sports fandom (on large levels) means it'll take a LOT longer than 7 years to get back to the levels of 2011 and before...without an outside jolt like a Frozen Four run. (Realistically, that's probably the one significant jolt. Look at volleyball... And I'm repeating myself again.)
Anyway, that chicken-and-the-egg reality is why there is no magic answer. To change it at all, you need major pushes to move the needle at all (in terms of getting people to make UW Hockey fandom a part of their lives). When I talk about reducing upper deck ticket prices, it's not just for short term attendance gains - it's for creating a more appealing environment that can snowball on itself and attract more fans who like going to sports games.
It goes all the way down to the youth hockey levels, but that's an even bigger picture.
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The passion for hockey is realistically pretty high in Madison. I can't speak on the old days from personal experience, but I wouldn't be surprised if that passion among those who were UW hockey fans only (those who didn't also engage with the sport in other ways) has waned.
In the overall picture, boys and girls around here play in high numbers (not including when they bring their friends to the outdoor rinks), there are something like 12-13 public indoor sheets available within a 20-minute drive of my apartment, high school hockey is a "thing", and while it drives me nuts how often I have to ask for a road Badgers game to be put on the TV in bars, you see hockey on those TVs with regularity. Oh, and UW women's hockey is probably the best followed women's hockey team in the world outside of international competition.
To much of the country, this is a hockey paradise, but people here tend to compare it to Minnesota. Relating to Badgers hockey attendance and fandom, this stuff is one of the major factors that leads to my conclusion that it is realistic to expect UW men's hockey to have a situation where they can pack the Kohl Center with regularity, as a baseline.
P.S. even though they seem to conspire with the Badgers to play at home and on the road on the same weekends, Madison Capitols games are fun, and the renovations are looking good. It's another nice slice to the local hockey landscape.
P.p.s. It also reminds me of how I'd always see a disproportionate amount of NHL gear around campus compared to people getting in to UW hockey as fans, which didn't seem to happen the way football fans (of which there are obviously more) got into UW football...where you see a lot of UW hockey jerseys every game. I guess that shows the lack of the all-important casual fans.
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Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
I think interest in hockey in the Madison metro area is still solid, I just think attending UW games is not a "must see" event like it used to be. What they should do is move 3rd tier people to the 1st or 2nd tier to get that filled more. How you accomplish this from a practical standpoint would be a challenge, maybe you do it after the end of the first period. Then the ushers would serve a purpose for once.
I think interest in hockey in the Madison metro area is still solid, I just think attending UW games is not a "must see" event like it used to be. What they should do is move 3rd tier people to the 1st or 2nd tier to get that filled more. How you accomplish this from a practical standpoint would be a challenge, maybe you do it after the end of the first period. Then the ushers would serve a purpose for once.
MadCityRich
20 Years and Counting
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
What are you doing to get your hockey fix?
*NHL Center Ice or NHL.TV? (Guilty, but I ALWAYS watch the NHL.)
*Your young kid's games?
*High school?
*USHL, NAHL, NA3HL?
*Stopping at a rink when you see a bunch of cars?
What are you doing to get your hockey fix?
*NHL Center Ice or NHL.TV? (Guilty, but I ALWAYS watch the NHL.)
*Your young kid's games?
*High school?
*USHL, NAHL, NA3HL?
*Stopping at a rink when you see a bunch of cars?
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
I drive by the rink in Beaver Dam all the time, so that rates as pretty much absolutely nothing. I should look into catching a HS game in the coming couple weeks. Right now Christmas and Church activities are pretty dominate, however, if UW was on the tube I'd be watching. The worst time of the year is the end of hockey season to opening day of fishing. All I can do then is watch fishing on TV shows, go to every Musky show near WI and dream.
I drive by the rink in Beaver Dam all the time, so that rates as pretty much absolutely nothing. I should look into catching a HS game in the coming couple weeks. Right now Christmas and Church activities are pretty dominate, however, if UW was on the tube I'd be watching. The worst time of the year is the end of hockey season to opening day of fishing. All I can do then is watch fishing on TV shows, go to every Musky show near WI and dream.
I dont think bringing Badger fans back will be as complicated as most people think. The Badgers have sucked for years. And I dont blame people for not paying money to watch what's been on the ice. Do you expect people to pay money to park and walk 5 blocks in cold, dark weather and watch bad hockey?
I went to one game 3 years ago and it was horrendous. My parents had season tickets for 30 years so it wasn't my first game. I've seen amazing Badger games over the years. This crappy and inconsistent product that's been on the ice in recent times is not fun to watch. It just isn't, and I won't pay to go down to the Kohl until they are good again. And when they are good I will probably buy season tickets. Because Badger hockey is fun as hell when the team is good.
I think all they gotta do is get some good forward talent, get better, and the attendance will go up. It may take a few years for fans to trust the team enough to buy season tickets in droves. I understand that a whole generation of fans (my parents included) have left and won't come back...
but I think itll be fine if they get better.
Plus whoever controls the music should turn the godforsaken crap off that they play in between whistles.
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MadCityRich
20 Years and Counting
No Wisconsin kids again. Even tho` we have MI and MN next to us, we just don't have the talent they do. We get that occasional diamond in the rough, but few and far between.
3 from Florida? smh
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
Remember, it's not just about getting fans "back." Most of them are back. I'm sure there are still some out there in that category, especially if we take into consideration those who watch games here and there but might pay attention and go to games more frequently with an improved team, but the bigger category is those who aren't UW hockey fans (yet). Look at Ohio State - they've had a good and exciting team more often than not in recent years, but people have to be emotionally invested in the team before they care about how good it is.
Consistent success can slowly build a program and a fan base, but I'm not sure there are enough people sitting around town that will respond to on-ice results alone - and I know there aren't enough students sitting around campus that will respond to results - as they were never fans in the first place. (Edit: I should say "immediately respond" - there will be some short-term gains in the fan base and a few more long-term gains as on-ice success is achieved. I'm a Washington Capitals fan who experienced the incredible 2008 shift, so I should be saying it will only take one good season and an NCAA berth, but I've seen a dominant Badgers team get ignored by most, because there was ~zero exposure.) As far as the fan base goes, it's like a new/building program with a disproportionately large base of passionate fans, compared to the overall level of prominence/buzz, as they see it as the major D-I hockey program we know it to be, while everyone else sees it as a semi-notable small sport (even if they like hockey).
Student season tickets used to sell way more at a much higher price (almost double) for a team with low expectations. (When I say "used to" I mean about seven years ago; I'm not talking about the '90s.) After historically bad on-ice performance coincided with a slide in attendance and interest in the program that was beyond the result of on-ice expectations/performance (reverse correlation, in fact), it became obvious to me that if UW wanted the standing of their hockey program to be where they wanted it to be, they had to treat it like they would a new program. I've been beating that drum for years now.
The men's basketball student fan base has always been pretty fickle, but if that team gets good, there's a guaranteed big wave of hype. If men's hockey gets good, well...college hockey doesn't guarantee a wave of hype (of any size) without a local push. Everyone needs to channel their inner Badger Bob if we want the potential casual fans to give it a shot. (Also, give Todd Milewski free reign over UWBadgers.com, their videos, their social media feeds, and their email lists.)
Edit: There were some pretty unremarkable Badgers teams in the previous decade that would've been downright horrified by the crowds that are the new normal (which, by the way, would be record-setting lows at that time). These aren't ebbs and flows of sports fandom that change with a team's performance; these are shifts in how a sport/league/team stands in the overall consciousness (I believe "zeitgeist" is the word) of the local sports landscape. That's why they need a Frozen Four run. Or my Milewski Plan. Maybe I just need more patience (there will be some improvement down the stretch, especially with football over).
Remember, it's not just about getting fans "back." Most of them are back. I'm sure there are still some out there in that category, especially if we take into consideration those who watch games here and there but might pay attention and go to games more frequently with an improved team, but the bigger category is those who aren't UW hockey fans (yet). Look at Ohio State - they've had a good and exciting team more often than not in recent years, but people have to be emotionally invested in the team before they care about how good it is.
Consistent success can slowly build a program and a fan base, but I'm not sure there are enough people sitting around town that will respond to on-ice results alone - and I know there aren't enough students sitting around campus that will respond to results - as they were never fans in the first place. (Edit: I should say "immediately respond" - there will be some short-term gains in the fan base and a few more long-term gains as on-ice success is achieved. I'm a Washington Capitals fan who experienced the incredible 2008 shift, so I should be saying it will only take one good season and an NCAA berth, but I've seen a dominant Badgers team get ignored by most, because there was ~zero exposure.) As far as the fan base goes, it's like a new/building program with a disproportionately large base of passionate fans, compared to the overall level of prominence/buzz, as they see it as the major D-I hockey program we know it to be, while everyone else sees it as a semi-notable small sport (even if they like hockey).
Student season tickets used to sell way more at a much higher price (almost double) for a team with low expectations. (When I say "used to" I mean about seven years ago; I'm not talking about the '90s.) After historically bad on-ice performance coincided with a slide in attendance and interest in the program that was beyond the result of on-ice expectations/performance (reverse correlation, in fact), it became obvious to me that if UW wanted the standing of their hockey program to be where they wanted it to be, they had to treat it like they would a new program. I've been beating that drum for years now.
The men's basketball student fan base has always been pretty fickle, but if that team gets good, there's a guaranteed big wave of hype. If men's hockey gets good, well...college hockey doesn't guarantee a wave of hype (of any size) without a local push. Everyone needs to channel their inner Badger Bob if we want the potential casual fans to give it a shot. (Also, give Todd Milewski free reign over UWBadgers.com, their videos, their social media feeds, and their email lists.)
Edit: There were some pretty unremarkable Badgers teams in the previous decade that would've been downright horrified by the crowds that are the new normal (which, by the way, would be record-setting lows at that time). These aren't ebbs and flows of sports fandom that change with a team's performance; these are shifts in how a sport/league/team stands in the overall consciousness (I believe "zeitgeist" is the word) of the local sports landscape. That's why they need a Frozen Four run. Or my Milewski Plan. Maybe I just need more patience (there will be some improvement down the stretch, especially with football over).
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Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
Given the cheerful nature of this season, I'd like to offset the negative tone of my previous post with something more positive: Big Ten hockey is great, and I have enjoyed it from the get-go. Congrats to K'Andre Miller for having a great season so far and earning the spot on the U20 national team, and congrats to Emberson and Dhooghe for not having to miss the big series against Denver!
It would be cool if more youth hockey groups (of all ages) could go to games more frequently. Somebody subsidize that, because there's a ton of hockey played around Madison, which is also great!
Given the cheerful nature of this season, I'd like to offset the negative tone of my previous post with something more positive: Big Ten hockey is great, and I have enjoyed it from the get-go. Congrats to K'Andre Miller for having a great season so far and earning the spot on the U20 national team, and congrats to Emberson and Dhooghe for not having to miss the big series against Denver!
It would be cool if more youth hockey groups (of all ages) could go to games more frequently. Somebody subsidize that, because there's a ton of hockey played around Madison, which is also great!
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
I was surprised to see Emberson get cut, though I am thankful those 2 will be back for the next series.
I was also a little surprised to see M&W BB play games so far into exams, makes me think even more they could play one more series before the break.
I was surprised to see Emberson get cut, though I am thankful those 2 will be back for the next series.
I was also a little surprised to see M&W BB play games so far into exams, makes me think even more they could play one more series before the break.
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
To what end?
If we try to move the Denver series, we could have played them on the weekend of Dec 14-15, but that would have just moved the "void of emptiness" back by a week.
There are NO B1G conference games scheduled for the weekends of Dec 14-15, 21-22, 28-20. I think that was a deliberate choice by the conference.
With 7 conference teams, OSU was the odd man out with their last conference series being Nov 30-Dec 1. Everyone else played a conference series Dec 7-8.
Wisconsin has a back-end heavy conference schedule. Coming out of the break we have 2 weekends of non-con play with Denver and USA U18. This is where the other schools are going to catch and pass us in conference games played.
We play 7 conference match-ups in the last 7 weekends of the season. Everyone else either has an off weekend, a non-con series, or a split match-up with only 1 game.
We schedule the break as it is and people are either grumpy (we've been playing great, this kills the momentum!) or happy (we've been playing like crap, we need a break to get back to fundamentals!).
We schedule a break later is the season and people are either grumpy (we've been playing great, this kills the momentum!) or happy (we've been playing like crap, we need a break to get back to fundamentals! or we need a break to get healthy!).
You schedule what you can when you can and hope for the best...
To what end?
If we try to move the Denver series, we could have played them on the weekend of Dec 14-15, but that would have just moved the "void of emptiness" back by a week.
There are NO B1G conference games scheduled for the weekends of Dec 14-15, 21-22, 28-20. I think that was a deliberate choice by the conference.
With 7 conference teams, OSU was the odd man out with their last conference series being Nov 30-Dec 1. Everyone else played a conference series Dec 7-8.
Wisconsin has a back-end heavy conference schedule. Coming out of the break we have 2 weekends of non-con play with Denver and USA U18. This is where the other schools are going to catch and pass us in conference games played.
We play 7 conference match-ups in the last 7 weekends of the season. Everyone else either has an off weekend, a non-con series, or a split match-up with only 1 game.
We schedule the break as it is and people are either grumpy (we've been playing great, this kills the momentum!) or happy (we've been playing like crap, we need a break to get back to fundamentals!).
We schedule a break later is the season and people are either grumpy (we've been playing great, this kills the momentum!) or happy (we've been playing like crap, we need a break to get back to fundamentals! or we need a break to get healthy!).
You schedule what you can when you can and hope for the best...
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
All I am saying is I would prefer a shorter break. I thought the whole exam thing was a reason they couldn't/wouldn't play the weekend of the 15th. The BB showed other-wise. The mechanics of making the gap shorter in the future I really don't care about, I'd just like it to work out that way.
All I am saying is I would prefer a shorter break. I thought the whole exam thing was a reason they couldn't/wouldn't play the weekend of the 15th. The BB showed other-wise. The mechanics of making the gap shorter in the future I really don't care about, I'd just like it to work out that way.
WiscTJK
Well-known member
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
I agree with Tim that 4 weeks is too much.
You don't throw up your hands and "hope for the best."
You intentionally schedule an exhibition or move a nonconference series from October to late December, and have an extra week off in October or later (if conf games allow) and only 2-3 week semester break. I know this scheduling is done years in advance, but it should be able to be done.
I agree with Tim that 4 weeks is too much.
You don't throw up your hands and "hope for the best."
You intentionally schedule an exhibition or move a nonconference series from October to late December, and have an extra week off in October or later (if conf games allow) and only 2-3 week semester break. I know this scheduling is done years in advance, but it should be able to be done.
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
Watched parts of Bueller knocking off the rodents. That probably will hurt UW in the pairwise deal, but ya can't root for the rodents.
Watched parts of Bueller knocking off the rodents. That probably will hurt UW in the pairwise deal, but ya can't root for the rodents.
MadCityRich
20 Years and Counting
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
MCR will be in da house as usual.
Look for somebody who resembles Brat Pitt, but <strike>a little</strike> older, heavier, and not as wealthy.
MCR will be in da house as usual.
Look for somebody who resembles Brat Pitt, but <strike>a little</strike> older, heavier, and not as wealthy.
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2018-2019: We can have a witty thread title when we start winnin
Man, I miss all of the great USCHO get-togethers....
Man, I miss all of the great USCHO get-togethers....
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