Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

Disrepect the Muzzinator?

How dare you

She's too good for us. We'll settle for Frosty.

An interesting tidbit from listening to MJ Saturday pregame talk with Magnum was that they broke up the superline the weekend in Bemidji, at the beginning of the 2nd period Saturday. No one disclosed that ahead of time, how disappointing.

 

[NMH]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

Koch certainly has earned the right to give it a go. The thing we don't know is how the recruiting dynamic works between Koch, Crum and MJ. Maybe Koch is the brains behind it and MJ is the closer. Some of the Canadian recruits have admitted they really didn't know much about MJ's history before he knocked on their door. I think more important than his playing history is the fact that he produces championship teams, PK winners and Olympians. Koch and Crum both can say that same thing.

Jackie is definitely the Canadian recruiting guru.

 

[NMH]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

She's to good for us. We'll settle for Frosty.

An interesting tidbit from listening to MJ Saturday pregame talk with Magnum was that they broke up the superline the weekend in Bemidji, at the beginning of the 2nd period Saturday. No one disclosed that ahead of time, how disappointing.

Without sounding like he doesn't care or is flippant, I've always gotten the impression that Mark isn't very tied to lines. He certainly doesn't number or rank them. He's pretty free with in-game switch ups, so even though I didn't get to pay much attention to lines in Bemidji, it doesn't surprise me at all that he made a change in that game where they were struggling from the get go. He's pretty keen on shaking things up and trying different approaches when somethings not working.

It also wasn't exactly ground-breaking to put Abby with Britta not long after they'd played so well together with Team USA. There was chatter in the press box about breaking up the top line but I have to say I was a big fan of the grittiness Roque/Curl/Mauermann have together. That's a line that will dig and fight along the boards and not lose possession and it was a perfect choice against Minnesota, IMO.

 

[robertearle]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

Without sounding like he doesn't care or is flippant, I've always gotten the impression that Mark isn't very tied to lines. He certainly doesn't number or rank them. He's pretty free with in-game switch ups, so even though I didn't get to pay much attention to lines in Bemidji, it doesn't surprise me at all that he made a change in that game where they were struggling from the get go. He's pretty keen on shaking things up and trying different approaches when somethings not working.

It also wasn't exactly ground-breaking to put Abby with Britta not long after they'd played so well together with Team USA. There was chatter in the press box about breaking up the top line but I have to say I was a big fan of the grittiness Roque/Curl/Mauermann have together. That's a line that will dig and fight along the boards and not lose possession and it was a perfect choice against Minnesota, IMO.

The one thing it means that could be a drawback is that when it is really down-to-crunch-time, Roque is going to be the one on the ice taking the faceoff, and (unless MJ changes back mid-game, mid-period) that means Watts is on the bench at down-to-crunch-time.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

Without sounding like he doesn't care or is flippant, I've always gotten the impression that Mark isn't very tied to lines. He certainly doesn't number or rank them. He's pretty free with in-game switch ups, so even though I didn't get to pay much attention to lines in Bemidji, it doesn't surprise me at all that he made a change in that game where they were struggling from the get go. He's pretty keen on shaking things up and trying different approaches when somethings not working.

It also wasn't exactly ground-breaking to put Abby with Britta not long after they'd played so well together with Team USA. There was chatter in the press box about breaking up the top line but I have to say I was a big fan of the grittiness Roque/Curl/Mauermann have together. That's a line that will dig and fight along the boards and not lose possession and it was a perfect choice against Minnesota, IMO.

I agree he doesn't necessarily have a hard core line 1 2 or 3 setup, we see that when sometimes the starting 3 are the "3rd " line. I think it is all about match-ups.

Roque and Curl also played together last year, so yes it wasn't shocking by any means to see them back together. It was a total shock to the system to see the lines come out onto the ice and it wasn't not the combo one would expect and interestingly enough I had not checked the lines before the game.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

Jackie is definitely the Canadian recruiting guru.

It would be great to read a long form article about the inter-workings of the dynamics of the WI coaching staff.

 

[Lindsay]

It would be great to read a long form article about the inter-workings of the dynamics of the WI coaching staff.

I’d be interested in a Jackie Crum article, full stop.

While we’re talking coaches, as great as the men That coach UMinn and Wisc are, when there’s turnover they should be intentional about getting qualified women in the roles of Head Coach or Associate Head Coach. Same goes for any program.

 

[robertearle]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

Jackie is definitely the Canadian recruiting guru.

According to articles on Campbell and how she got from North Dakota to Wisconsin, Crum was instrumental and crucial to that happening.

 

[ARM]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

While we’re talking coaches, as great as the men That coach UMinn and Wisc are, when there’s turnover they should be intentional about getting qualified women in the roles of Head Coach or Associate Head Coach. Same goes for any program.

While on a certain level I agree with you, I'm not sure how legal that type of an approach is. It also depends on the feeder system. Results over the years haven't been great when a program decides to hire a female head coach who lacks the experience for the job.

Through Shannon Miller's last championship in 2010, Mark Johnson was the only male to coach his team to a national title. Excepting 2014 when the Desrosiers were co-head coaches, no female coach has won NCAAs since then. Too often when female coaches are given chances, it is at programs that are struggling and the results are predictable. Nadine Muzerall and Cara Morey have done very well, and Maura Crowell and Cassandra Turner have at least kept their teams relevant, but for quite a while now it has mostly just been Katey Stone and Katie Crowley in terms of female coaches of contending teams.

Maybe the trend will change. I think that Morey can do great things. Former Harvard player Sam Reber has had great success at Edina HS, winning MN state titles in all three of her seasons. But IMO, the objective of hiring a female head coach only proves successful when she is also a great candidate, not just the best of the female coaches currently available.

 

[Lindsay]

While on a certain level I agree with you, I'm not sure how legal that type of an approach is. It also depends on the feeder system. Results over the years haven't been great when a program decides to hire a female head coach who lacks the experience for the job.

Through Shannon Miller's last championship in 2010, Mark Johnson was the only male to coach his team to a national title. Excepting 2014 when the Desrosiers were co-head coaches, no female coach has won NCAAs since then. Too often when female coaches are given chances, it is at programs that are struggling and the results are predictable. Nadine Muzerall and Cara Morey have done very well, and Maura Crowell and Cassandra Turner have at least kept their teams relevant, but for quite a while now it has mostly just been Katey Stone and Katie Crowley in terms of female coaches of contending teams.

Maybe the trend will change. I think that Morey can do great things. Former Harvard player Sam Reber has had great success at Edina HS, winning MN state titles in all three of her seasons. But IMO, the objective of hiring a female head coach only proves successful when she is also a great candidate, not just the best of the female coaches currently available.

ARM there are a ton of women who have the qualifications to coach a women’s college hockey team. IBrianna Deckers qualifications right now are probably similar to what Johnson had when he got the women’s job.

But beyond that, I don’t know why you assume I am suggesting unqualified women be given jobs. In this day, probably all coaches are qualified but I hardly think undeserving women receive coaching jobs at a higher rate than undeserving men.

For the purposes of a convo about coaching staffs at the best resourced women’s programs in the country, it is appropriate to point out that they should strive to progress from the top two paid positions being men. I’ll let it go, don’t want to high Jack a thread but I think it’s a fair point.

 

[robertearle]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

Brianna Deckers qualifications right now are probably similar to what Johnson had when he got the women’s job.

Decker is obviously one of my all-time favorite UW players - probably the best hands on a UW player ever; watch the video below - but what you say here is just not remotely close to true.

(Any excuse to watch this one again )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jIoir_MifA

 

[Lindsay]

Decker is obviously one of my all-time favorite UW players - probably the best hands on a UW player ever; watch the video below - but what you say here is just not remotely close to true.

(Any excuse to watch this one again )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jIoir_MifA

Hah. Yea she’s awesome. Like I said not looking to fight, and I have respect for the contributions of the many great coaches male and female to the women’s game. But...what was Johnson’s coaching experience before taking over the women’s program? I thought he had some USA hockey coaching experience at the asst coaching level? Was full of potential as a coach, an obvious hire, but not proven?

Edit: ok I see he was asst coach on the men’s team for several years. My apologies. That part is different. But note that asst men’s coach to head coach on women’s team is not a feeder path that exists much if at all for women right now. Just some food for thought Wisconsin fans.

 

[ARM]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

I don’t know why you assume I am suggesting unqualified women be given jobs.

I'm not saying that you are and am sorry if that is how it came across. I just feel that there have been hires over the years when some program has decided "we need to hire a woman" and wound up picking somebody who lacked sufficient experience, maybe because she had starred for the program recently. Those hires don't seem to serve anyone well.

As for Johnson vs Decker, I guess the difference in experience would be based on how much value one places on NHL experience as a player and being the son of someone who was both a college and NHL coach. Coaches kids often look at the game differently from young on. Johnson was about a dozen years older, with more hockey seasons behind him, than Decker is now.

 

[robertearle]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

Hah. Yea she’s awesome. Like I said not looking to fight, and I have respect for the contributions of the many great coaches male and female to the women’s game. But...what was Johnson’s coaching experience before taking over the women’s program? I thought he had some USA hockey coaching experience at the asst coaching level? Was full of potential as a coach, an obvious hire, but not proven?

Six years as an assistant with the UW men's team.

 

[Lindsay]

Seven years as an assistant with the UW men's team.

Yes I see that now! Revised my comment. My apologies, didn’t know that part of his bio. Still sticking to my original point, but you are right in that he
Came from feeder system that doesn’t really exist for women coaches. Just my 2 cents, and Koch is the likely and deserving future successor, but just some food for thought that I hope we’ll see more and more qualified women getting these jobs, especially the best ones in the country.

 

[Lindsay]

I'm not saying that you are and am sorry if that is how it came across. I just feel that there have been hires over the years when some program has decided "we need to hire a woman" and wound up picking somebody who lacked sufficient experience, maybe because she had starred for the program recently. Those hires don't seem to serve anyone well.

As for Johnson vs Decker, I guess the difference in experience would be based on how much value one places on NHL experience as a player and being the son of someone who was both a college and NHL coach. Coaches kids often look at the game differently from young on. Johnson was about a dozen years older, with more hockey seasons behind him, than Decker is now.

It’s all good ARM, appreciate the thoughtful response. You know I am just passionate about seeing deserving candidates get great opportunities, and anxious to see change. I always want the best candidate to get a job, but passionately believe there are more qualified women out there who could do a great job and literally be the best candidate.

 

[robertearle]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

Yes I see that now! Revised my comment. My apologies, didn’t know that part of his bio. Still sticking to my original point, but you are right in that he
Came from feeder system that doesn’t really exist for women coaches. Just my 2 cents, and Koch is the likely and deserving future successor, but just some food for thought that I hope we’ll see more and more qualified women getting these jobs, especially the best ones in the country.

There are a number of former UW players who are coaching or have coached at NCAA schools: Jinnelle Zaugg is currently at St Cloud and before that was at Robert Morris (I think), Meghan Duggan at Clarkson, Kelly Nash at Princeton; also Carla Macleod at a college (or two?) in Canada as well as an assistant for the Japanese Olympic team. Probably others I am missing.

(There's a Kelly Nash highlight that I love, and Gophers fans hate, but I'll hold off posting that one. A Jinnie Zaugg one as well, but I'll hold that one too)

 

[Still Eeyore]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

I'm not saying that you are and am sorry if that is how it came across. I just feel that there have been hires over the years when some program has decided "we need to hire a woman" and wound up picking somebody who lacked sufficient experience, maybe because she had starred for the program recently. Those hires don't seem to serve anyone well.

My problem with this line of argument is that it is never deployed the other way around. No one ever says that a terrible hire of a man to coach a men's team is because they were specifically trying to hire a man, even though that is 100% true of every single time a man is hired to coach a men's team, even if the hiring party rarely says that explicitly to themselves.

 

[ARM]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

No one ever says that a terrible hire of a man to coach a men's team is because they were specifically trying to hire a man, even though that is 100% true of every single time a man is hired to coach a men's team...

This is the women's forum, so I don't post much about men's teams. It's not my fault if you don't like what you read on some other forum. Let's look at Penn State women's team. Just about any female coach would have been a better option as the program's first coach. But was the problem that the AD hired a man or that the AD hired a poor coach for the position?

Most of the people that I promote to leadership positions at my workplace tend to be women, but that is because there are more qualified female candidates. I find it to be limiting to say than any hire has to be of a certain gender, because the job requirements are a set of skills, not physical attributes.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2019-2020 Season Thread

(Any excuse to watch this one again )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jIoir_MifA

Ha! Love that highlight. I had just reminded my son of that play before the faceoff that lead to the SS OT winner. Awesome.

A coach should be hired solely on their ability to do the job and nothing else.