Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

[dave1381]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

Another reason to be bitter with Chu/Harvard/Stone is that Chu could have possibly taken Pankowski's spot on the Olympic team seeing as Chu was only spotted icetime and not running a regular shift. Plus Stone deprived UW of Pankowski's services this year, and clearly UW's issue this year is lack of firepower. Yes, I am bitter. UW better make them pay.

Seriously? First, Chu was a regular part of the PK. Second, did you really want to have an Olympic team with zero veterans who'd been to more than one Olympics? Chu was not the marginal player on the roster.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

On paper, a lot going for UW in this matchup. Maschmayer was benched in the ECAC quarterfinals, Harvard plays that infamous short bench that Katey Stone employed in the Olympics and it's even shorter since they're missing Mary Parker to a concussion. Parker might be back this weekend, but their three lines to Wisconsin's four and Wisconsin's fitness has to play to Wisconsin's favor.

Katey Stone's infamous short bench that Canada also employed? And not to mention in the 2010 Olympics, it wasn't like the 4th line got a ton of playing time (8 min) -- and it was Canada's 4th line that beat the U.S. 4th line. So all this railing against "short benches" here is just nonsense.

As for Harvard this season, yes, they have three lines of forwards, just like Cornell. And with Mary Parker out, they effective play more like 8 forwards rather than 3 lines. Most of the season, they played three lines rather evenly. That is what is happening, if anyone cares to be accurate.

I'm not sure why you would argue Wisconsin has better "fitness" but I agree that 4 lines can be better rested than 3 lines or 2 2/3 lines. So yes, that forward depth could be an advantage for Wisconsin.

 

[granddaddyscout]

Seriously? First, Chu was a regular part of the PK. Second, did you really want to have an Olympic team with zero veterans who'd been to more than one Olympics? Chu was not the marginal player on the roster.

Have to disagree on two fronts; 1. There are probably a dozen players that would have been better selections than Chu, the roster clearly had a heavy Harvard tilt. Stone controlled the entire process and felt she was walking in the footsteps of Herb Brooks. She made many comparisons of that nature. She lost and he won, so she should step aside and acknowledge that her plan failed. 2. Given that the woman's game is all about the Gold and that means beating Canada Olympic experience beyond "one Olympic Games" isn't all that critical. There are at least a dozen players that are younger, faster, and more skilled that have played 10 or more games against Canada.
They didn't lose because of Chu, they lost because the other team was better. Better prepared, better assembled, and better veteran contributions. Canada had seasoned veterans on their top lines getting lots of minutes.

 

[robertearle]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

The particular clip in the video does make it look like Chu is maybe 'getting up' but starts too late to see more, so maybe...

I will point out that Zaugg at 6'1 is much taller than Chu, and that sometimes make 'contact' between players look worse than it really is.

A little longer version of the video clip (newly posted at YouTube), where you can see Chu going down. But still can't really see what causes her to go down. She's maybe chasing Bauer, and Zaugg knocks her off her skates as they cross?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU39ZJwlRwQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[WiscDC]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

They didn't lose because of Chu, they lost because the other team was better. Better prepared, better assembled, and better veteran contributions. Canada had seasoned veterans on their top lines getting lots of minutes.

It really wasn't that overwhelming. In fact, most members of the Canadian hockey media were basically thinking, "hey, it's great that they tied it and forced OT...now the US is going to win it." (The consensus was that on a big sheet of ice 4-on-4, Team USA would take advantage of their superior speed, and it almost worked right out of the gates. Then the penalty happened and the rest is history.)

It was pretty even, many (including Canadians) thought that the US was slightly better, and over a long series of games, it would be very even. Oh, wait, they did play a long series of games, and it was very even. One of the games they lost was the gold medal game, and it was the closest hockey game that didn't end in a tie or shootout I've seen in a long time, or possibly ever.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

Katey's marginal selections had a Harvard tilt, just like Mark Johnson's roster marginal selections had a Wisconsin tilt. Fry and Pucci were Harvard selections who in the end barely played in the gold medal game, and those are worthy of scrutiny.

Chu may not have gotten a regular shift but she set the screen that led to the first US goal in the gold medal game. It was like in 2010 when it looked like Botterill had hardly justified her selection to Team Canada (0 points entering Gold medal game) and she set up MPP for the first Canada goal. We've seen the veterans have a huge impact on these games. So to repeat, Chu was not the first player you would bump from the US roster -- there were those who barely played at all, while Chu played and made a significant contribution to the US lead.

At the end of the day, both teams primarily played 9 F and 6 D. I'm not so convinced doing a better job selecting skaters #16-18 would have made a huge difference.

 

[granddaddyscout]

Katey's marginal selections had a Harvard tilt, just like Mark Johnson's roster marginal selections had a Wisconsin tilt. Fry and Pucci were Harvard selections who in the end barely played in the gold medal game, and those are worthy of scrutiny.

Chu may not have gotten a regular shift but she set the screen that led to the first US goal in the gold medal game. It was like in 2010 when it looked like Botterill had hardly justified her selection to Team Canada (0 points entering Gold medal game) and she set up MPP for the first Canada goal. We've seen the veterans have a huge impact on these games. So to repeat, Chu was not the first player you would bump from the US roster -- there were those who barely played at all, while Chu played and made a significant contribution to the US lead.

At the end of the day, both teams primarily played 9 F and 6 D. I'm not so convinced doing a better job selecting skaters #16-18 would have made a huge difference.

You can't compare the process under MJ or the selections. MJ allowed the committee to select the team which included his now daughter in law being cut. In addition the UW selections under him played significant roles and had histories of success including NCAA Championships. The insiders I spoke with commented that the US team seemed tired late in the game and having a capable 4th line that could be counted on "might" have made a difference.

 

[NMH]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

Katey Stone's infamous short bench that Canada also employed? And not to mention in the 2010 Olympics, it wasn't like the 4th line got a ton of playing time (8 min) -- and it was Canada's 4th line that beat the U.S. 4th line. So all this railing against "short benches" here is just nonsense.

As for Harvard this season, yes, they have three lines of forwards, just like Cornell. And with Mary Parker out, they effective play more like 8 forwards rather than 3 lines. Most of the season, they played three lines rather evenly. That is what is happening, if anyone cares to be accurate.

I'm not sure why you would argue Wisconsin has better "fitness" but I agree that 4 lines can be better rested than 3 lines or 2 2/3 lines. So yes, that forward depth could be an advantage for Wisconsin.

The fact that Harvard's three line system wasn't exposed during the regular season - mostly because Yale, Cornell and others also play three lines - doesn't mean that it won't be an issue against Wisconsin. I try very hard to not be a "west vs east" snob, but I think it's incredibly naive to say "it worked all season" and think that means it will be effective here. The game on Saturday will be very different from any either team has played all season and they both have to be prepared to adjust styles somewhat.

Wisconsin's third line is incredibly strong and the fourth line is no slouch. Wisconsin plays a fast, open game. They use the whole sheet and can wear the other team down. Often the third period is where they pull away. This is why I mentioned fitness. I think that, as you said, Harvard plays 8 forwards, and when it comes to the end of the game and they are in need of defensive help from their offensive players, the short bench might become an issue.

Mentioning that Harvard plays a short bench and that people like to talk about it is not "railing against it" though clearly you're quite sensitive about it.

 

[NMH]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

Chu may not have gotten a regular shift but she set the screen that led to the first US goal in the gold medal game.

She also stood around waiting for the pass that was picked off and put in the back of the net for the second Canada goal. Which is not to harp on that but to say that it's not right to pick one particular play and ignore all the rest.

I definitely thought her pick on this team was largely ceremonial. I wouldn't have gone as far as to say that she took anyone's place, but I thought there was never a question she was making the roster, regardless of the rest of the talent or competition at camp. I also thought it was incredibly telling about USA Hockey's thoughts on her effectiveness and role when they took the C from her and gave it to Duggan. Chu was there to be veteran leadership and then they didn't even think she was doing that well? There was clear passing of the torch. In the end, the interviews were all Knight and Duggan. Chu is a spectacular ambassador for the sport. Clearly she's great in front of the camera and sponsors, USA Hockey and Team USA love her. In the end, I thought she was on the team for those reasons much more than her skating.

 

[robertearle]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

Wisconsin's third line is incredibly strong and the fourth line is no slouch.

(I've been thinking a little about next year: with only Packer from the front-liners graduating and Pankowski and two? others arriving, ice-time for some of them is gonna get awfully hard to come by. A nice problem to have, but still...)

 

[rangersrule]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

I expect the 2014 incoming class of forwards to be impact players for the UW program. Cianfirano (NSA) and Wellhausen (SSM) have been the best forwards at their respective prep programs over the last 2 years. They both were members of the USA U-18 team last year in Finland at the World Championships and are members of this years team as well headed to Hungary in a couple of weeks. Emily Clark as well was a 2-time Gold Medal winner with the Canadien U-18 team. Pankowski will be a dominating force immediately at the college level. These four forwards are ALL offensively talented -- something Wisconsin is missing depth wise this season. I see these girls being definate impact players beginning next season.

 

[ARM]

She also stood around waiting for the pass that was picked off and put in the back of the net for the second Canada goal. Which is not to harp on that but to say that it's not right to pick one particular play and ignore all the rest.

Chu is not alone in blame on that play, either, so it is a bit unfair IMO to lay it all on her. I've always been a huge fan of Jessie Vetter, but I have no idea of what she was attempting to do when she guided the puck from the side of the net to the doorstep for Poulin. Bellamy chose to chase behind the goal when Marvin was already in the corner, leaving no D in front of the net. The center usually covers when that happens, but Stack was at the side of the goal covering nobody, and likely wondering what Vetter was doing with the puck. Duggan was a step slow on Poulin. When mistakes are made, a teammate has to step up; nobody did.

I believe the saying, "Win as a team, lose as a team," is true in any team sport. They'd have won the gold medal as a team. As it was, they instead wound up with silver, and I believe they did that as a team as well. It wasn't one or two people responsible for the difference.

 

[jen]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

Question - I haven't been to LaBahn before, but I assume parking is the same as the Kohl Center. So it's basically going to be a nightmare on Saturday, right?

 

[NMH]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

Chu is not alone in blame on that play, either, so it is a bit unfair IMO to lay it all on her. I've always been a huge fan of Jessie Vetter, but I have no idea of what she was attempting to do when she guided the puck from the side of the net to the doorstep for Poulin. Bellamy chose to chase behind the goal when Marvin was already in the corner, leaving no D in front of the net. The center usually covers when that happens, but Stack was at the side of the goal covering nobody, and likely wondering what Vetter was doing with the puck. Duggan was a step slow on Poulin. When mistakes are made, a teammate has to step up; nobody did.

I believe the saying, "Win as a team, lose as a team," is true in any team sport. They'd have won the gold medal as a team. As it was, they instead wound up with silver, and I believe they did that as a team as well. It wasn't one or two people responsible for the difference.

All true. It's a 60 minute game, so no one play is to blame. It's too simple to say all those other things wouldn't have mattered if she'd have stepped to the puck. The final few minutes were a letdown of epic proportions across the board. She's taken the brunt of my need to have some outlet for the complete ridiculous turn of emotions and she's been a good scapegoat, but by no means do I blame the loss on her individually. To some extent it's tongue in cheek side-elbowing in the on-going east vs west. OF COURSE I'd blame a non-UW/UM player.

Like I said, wasn't trying to harp on one play (or person) but to (more simply) state similarly to you that one play isn't the whole story. Just as you can't say she was worth putting on the team because she set a pic for the first goal, you can't say she wasn't because of not stepping up to receive the pass.

 

[NMH]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

Question - I haven't been to LaBahn before, but I assume parking is the same as the Kohl Center. So it's basically going to be a nightmare on Saturday, right?

Yes, especially because there's some state HS tournament happening at the Kohl (I don't remember which and don't care enough to look it up).

I wonder if any of the bars will be running their shuttles. Those are the best bet for men's games. Worth a phone call.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

The fact that Harvard's three line system wasn't exposed during the regular season - mostly because Yale, Cornell and others also play three lines - doesn't mean that it won't be an issue against Wisconsin. I try very hard to not be a "west vs east" snob, but I think it's incredibly naive to say "it worked all season" and think that means it will be effective here. The game on Saturday will be very different from any either team has played all season and they both have to be prepared to adjust styles somewhat.

I'm actually in complete agreement. Mentioning the other schools, I was making the point it was more of an Ivy thing than a Harvard thing.

Wisconsin's third line is incredibly strong and the fourth line is no slouch. Wisconsin plays a fast, open game. They use the whole sheet and can wear the other team down. Often the third period is where they pull away. This is why I mentioned fitness. I think that, as you said, Harvard plays 8 forwards, and when it comes to the end of the game and they are in need of defensive help from their offensive players, the short bench might become an issue.

Ok, if by fitness you just mean their performance at the end of the game given the higher workload, then I agree. I was wondering if you meant general strength & conditioning throughout the season.

Mentioning that Harvard plays a short bench and that people like to talk about it is not "railing against it" though clearly you're quite sensitive about it.

Ok, but most people who mention it are railing against it, even if you haven't done so explicitly.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

I expect the 2014 incoming class of forwards to be impact players for the UW program. Cianfirano (NSA) and Wellhausen (SSM) have been the best forwards at their respective prep programs over the last 2 years. They both were members of the USA U-18 team last year in Finland at the World Championships and are members of this years team as well headed to Hungary in a couple of weeks. Emily Clark as well was a 2-time Gold Medal winner with the Canadien U-18 team. Pankowski will be a dominating force immediately at the college level. These four forwards are ALL offensively talented -- something Wisconsin is missing depth wise this season. I see these girls being definate impact players beginning next season.

Future.....UW needs more firepower to deal with the rodents and it looks like help is on the way, adding 4 top end players and losing only 1. Thanks for the insight into the incoming players. This is awesome news, I am really jacked up about nexy year.

Present.....I like UW's depth, but that depth is kind of a shallow depth with the lack of scoring. Those gals won't get outworked or outplayed, but they probably aren't going to score either. If UW gets behind, MJ probably will shorten the bench at some point, reducing the depth advantage for UW. Harvard does have silver bullet in their goalie. My worst fear is UW being down in the 3rd with Harvard just packing it in like Kato did with the seive cleaning up what gets through.

Random thoughts.....
UW needs to play a clean defensive game, not allowing oddwomen rushes, play tough in front of the net and close in on attacking players taking away time and space. I don't want to see any repeated mistakes like the ones we have seen in the last 3rd of the season.

UW does get the last change, so that will be a big factor.

I was elated and surprised ARD made the all rookie team. I thought she's get docked for only having like 12 starts.

Bummed UW got the 4 seed, I would have liked to dodge the rodents for 1 more game.

What's the prediction for attendance? Possbile sellout or will the higher prices keep some away?

Parking....I plan on parking in the lot off Regent street like I have been doing all year. It was been free to this point, even with the other events going on at the KC. It was even free for fill the bowl.

 

[NMH]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

I'm actually in complete agreement. Mentioning the other schools, I was making the point it was more of an Ivy thing than a Harvard thing.


Ok, if by fitness you just mean their performance at the end of the game given the higher workload, then I agree. I was wondering if you meant general strength & conditioning throughout the season.


Ok, but most people who mention it are railing against it, even if you haven't done so explicitly.

I think that Wisconsin's fitness/conditioning is better than most teams. It's a hypothesis. There's not much of a way to measure this, I just see that other teams fatigue and fade at the end of games in trying to keep up with their pace (meaning both speed of skating and speed of play). So it's a total "gut" thing. I think it's always a focus, but I think this year especially, this was a team that knew it had no superstar and knew it wasn't necessarily going to dazzle opponents as it had in year's past, but a thing they knew they could do is out-skate them. They might have gotten beaten by better players, but they were not going to get out-skated.

Who knows, I could be making that up. Just one of those things I took away after a bunch of games this season.

 

[robertearle]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

Yes, especially because there's some state HS tournament happening at the Kohl (I don't remember which and don't care enough to look it up).

I wonder if any of the bars will be running their shuttles. Those are the best bet for men's games. Worth a phone call.

Boys HS basketball - Division 2 championship game at 6:30 PM and Division 1 championship at 8:15 PM; about the worst conflict there could be. Parking willbe bad. (I take the city bus.)

 

[NMH]

Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2013-2014 Season

Future.....UW needs more firepower to deal with the rodents and it looks like help is on the way, adding 4 top end players and losing only 1. Thanks for the insight into the incoming players. This is awesome news, I am really jacked up about nexy year.

Present.....I like UW's depth, but that depth is kind of a shallow depth with the lack of scoring. Those gals won't get outworked or outplayed, but they probably aren't going to score either. If UW gets behind, MJ probably will shorten the bench at some point, reducing the depth advantage for UW. Harvard does have silver bullet in their goalie. My worst fear is UW being down in the 3rd with Harvard just packing it in like Kato did with the seive cleaning up what gets through.

This incoming freshman class is incredibly exciting. It's been difficult this season to not start looking ahead already. Nurse has been above average with flashes of brilliance and she and McKibbon are so well-matched. Knowing they'll only grow and then you add the girls coming in and it's hard not to want to just skip ahead to next year. Which is not meant as an offense to this team, but just shows how much potential there is.

As far as Maschmeyer as a silver bullet - I think that's up for debate. She's at least a question mark. She absolutely could be a wall - but she just as easily could not. Despite the Patty Top-10 nod, she didn't end the season as the top goalie in her own conference. She was third in GAA, 2nd in Save % (though by just .001) and a distant third in win percentage. She had a rough end of the season, getting benched in the early round of the conference tournament. She was back in the net for the final game of their season, but I think at this point (and a Harvard fan can give us perspective) they're not exactly sure which version will show up. Presumably she'll step it up for the big game, but I'm not ready to say she'll pull off a performance like Butters did.

Wisco's inability to score is obviously a concern, but I'd have to think Harvard is as afraid (likely moreso) of Rigsby.