What's new
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

I don't think EVERYONE whose team is going to the BTHC is reacting as though their team will be seeing a dramatic increase in revenue. The Gophers were doing just fine from a revenue standpoint before the formation of the BTHC was announced. In fact, I don't think Minnesota will nearly as big of a revenue increase as some of the other teams joining the BTHC.

Each team in the BTHC will most certainly see an increase in revenue and BTN revenue is equally distributed among member schools. While the UMN is less dependent on central funding today than 5 years ago, athletic dept. revenue at the UMN is not "doing just fine" and are still operating in the red. The increase in BTN revenue is one of the main reasons the NCHC was formed to financially compete with the BTHC by seeking a similar "cash cow" in NBC/Versus.
 
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

Each team in the BTHC will most certainly see an increase in revenue and BTN revenue is equally distributed among member schools. While the UMN is less dependent on central funding today than 5 years ago, athletic dept. revenue at the UMN is not "doing just fine" and are still operating in the red. The increase in BTN revenue is one of the main reasons the NCHC was formed to financially compete with the BTHC by seeking a similar "cash cow" in NBC/Versus.


They already broadcast football and basketball on the BTN, so that revenue is already shared. In terms of hockey, yes, Minnesota is doing more than fine in the revenue department. I would say $4+ million a year on it's men's program, and $3+ million for men's and women's combined is pretty darn good, especially considering that not one other program joining the BTHC made money (on both men's and women's hockey combined) last year. Since 2003, Minnesota has made over $27 million on it's hockey programs. The next closest school in the soon to be BTHC in that same period was Michigan, who made less that $3 million.

http://www.mnhockeycentral.webs.com/bigtennumbers.jpg

If you want an explanation for why Minnesota may be operating in the red, look at the money Joel Maturi is pumping into non-revenue generating sports. Hockey has NOTHING to do with it.

And I would argue that, by splitting revenue from hockey broadcasts on the BTN, Minnesota may actually be giving up some of the revenue that it already earns from a lucrative state-wide TV contract with FSN that shows practically every game and gets a pretty good viewership. I don't have the details on how much revenue from the BTN will increase with the added hockey broadcasts, but I find it hard to believe it will increase enough for Minnesota to see much of an increase. Now Ohio State, which has been hemorrhaging money on its hockey programs, is another story.

And try as they might, I don't think the NCHC schools will ever be able to compete with the BTHC schools in terms of revenue. Most don't have the football and basketball programs to fall back on, which are much larger revenue sports than hockey.
 
Last edited:
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

They already broadcast football and basketball on the BTN, so that revenue is already shared. In terms of hockey, yes, Minnesota is doing more than fine in the revenue department. I would say $4+ million a year on it's men's program, and $3+ million for men's and women's combined is pretty darn good, especially considering that not one other program joining the BTHC made money (on both men's and women's hockey combined) last year. Since 2003, Minnesota has made over $27 million on it's hockey programs. The next closest school in the soon to be BTHC in that same period was Michigan, who made less that $3 million.

http://www.mnhockeycentral.webs.com/bigtennumbers.jpg

If you want an explanation for why Minnesota may be operating in the red, look at the money Joel Maturi is pumping into non-revenue generating sports. Hockey has NOTHING to do with it.

And I would argue that, by splitting revenue from hockey broadcasts on the BTN, Minnesota may actually be giving up some of the revenue that it already earns from a lucrative state-wide TV contract with FSN that shows practically every game and gets a pretty good viewership. I don't have the details on how much revenue from the BTN will increase with the added hockey broadcasts, but I find it hard to believe it will increase enough for Minnesota to see much of an increase. Now Ohio State, which has been hemorrhaging money on its hockey programs, is another story.

And try as they might, I don't think the NCHC schools will ever be able to compete with the BTHC schools in terms of revenue. Most don't have the football and basketball programs to fall back on, which are much larger revenue sports than hockey.

You appear to be very naïve and a bit ignorant on how things work. Read at your own risk.:p

1) The reason for UMN operating in the red is not due to Maturi "pumping into non-revenue generating sports" (show me the data). The reason is simply due to outstanding liabilities and reduced funding which has substantially offset school revenue (I've documented this a number of times in previous posts...I won't do again here though).

Program expenses over the last two fiscal years have risen (I've also documented these statistics in the recent past), while state funding has dropped significantly to less than 15%. That comes to a drop of over $80M/year which translates into painfully forced spending cuts and staff relocations that are projected at roughly $90M ranging from facilities management to class scheduling.

The UMN athletic budget is currently $72M. As stated by the AD finance administrator last year, without BTN money to bail them out over the past couple years, the UMN would NOT have been able to sustain their debt repayment schedule (i.e. TCF, general fund loans, etc.) forcing them to go back to the general fund or look for other immediate sources of emergency revenue.

In all fairness, Maturi has actually done a superb job with balancing the AD budget. In fact, he has been commended recently for reducing expenses, and reliance upon the general fund IIRC to 3%/yr, while inching the athletic dept. closer to becoming financially self sustaining.

2) In addition to current income of $232M/yr, as the BTN broadens its footprint over the next five years, current projections indicate it could generate substantially more than a quarter of a billion dollars a year for the Big Ten conference. That would more than double aggregate revenue distribution to member schools to $16M (I have also provided actual breakdowns of these numbers as well in previous posts). BTN revenue distribution is based upon all sports not just hockey, but indeed hockey will play a significant role and sweeten the pot.

While I agree with you that the NCHC will not come close to matching BTN revenues for member schools, in essence they're not trying to match it. In response to the projected increase in BTN revenue to member schools, they're simply trying to focus their energies on their own media deal to help sustain and expand their athletic programs in general, not just hockey, which IIRC is the only major revenue generating sport for every member school of the NCHC thus far.

Regarding FSN, it only reaches at best 3 million potential viewers in a regional market of Iowa, Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Wisconsin. UMN charges a licensing fee to a regional sports network (RSN) like FSN to broadcast their games…that’s it. That is essentially pocket change to the UMN compared to carriage and advertising revenue generated and in part distributed to Big Ten schools by the BTN national market which covers over 35% of the US alone. To give an example of how little licensing fees amount to with an RSN, the Twins signed with FSN a few years ago to broadcast 105 or so games/yr until 2012 for only $12M. UMN’s contract with FSN to broadcast about 28 games/yr or so is substantially less than that.

The BTN footprint already reaches 14 times the amount of households in the US and Canada than FSN, and is positioned to increase that by 60% over the next five years. Multiply that by a few cents increase in carriage fees/household, include a projected ad revenue increase of over $80M, and school revenue kickbacks from the BTN will by far exceed the relatively stagnant revenue growth potential of any local RSN.
 
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

You appear to be very naïve and a bit ignorant on how things work. Read at your own risk.:p

1) The reason for UMN operating in the red is not due to Maturi "pumping into non-revenue generating sports" (show me the data). The reason is simply due to outstanding liabilities and reduced funding which has substantially offset school revenue (I've documented this a number of times in previous posts...I won't do again here though).

Program expenses over the last two fiscal years have risen (I've also documented these statistics in the recent past), while state funding has dropped significantly to less than 15%. That comes to a drop of over $80M/year which translates into painfully forced spending cuts and staff relocations that are projected at roughly $90M ranging from facilities management to class scheduling.

The UMN athletic budget is currently $72M. As stated by the AD finance administrator last year, without BTN money to bail them out over the past couple years, the UMN would NOT have been able to sustain their debt repayment schedule (i.e. TCF, general fund loans, etc.) forcing them to go back to the general fund or look for other immediate sources of emergency revenue.

In all fairness, Maturi has actually done a superb job with balancing the AD budget. In fact, he has been commended recently for reducing expenses, and reliance upon the general fund IIRC to 3%/yr, while inching the athletic dept. closer to becoming financially self sustaining.

2) In addition to current income of $232M/yr, as the BTN broadens its footprint over the next five years, current projections indicate it could generate substantially more than a quarter of a billion dollars a year for the Big Ten conference. That would more than double aggregate revenue distribution to member schools to $16M (I have also provided actual breakdowns of these numbers as well in previous posts). BTN revenue distribution is based upon all sports not just hockey, but indeed hockey will play a significant role and sweeten the pot.

While I agree with you that the NCHC will not come close to matching BTN revenues for member schools, in essence they're not trying to match it. In response to the projected increase in BTN revenue to member schools, they're simply trying to focus their energies on their own media deal to help sustain and expand their athletic programs in general, not just hockey, which IIRC is the only major revenue generating sport for every member school of the NCHC thus far.

Regarding FSN, it only reaches at best 3 million potential viewers in a regional market of Iowa, Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Wisconsin. UMN charges a licensing fee to a regional sports network (RSN) like FSN to broadcast their games…that’s it. That is essentially pocket change to the UMN compared to carriage and advertising revenue generated and in part distributed to Big Ten schools by the BTN national market which covers over 35% of the US alone. To give an example of how little licensing fees amount to with an RSN, the Twins signed with FSN a few years ago to broadcast 105 or so games/yr until 2012 for only $12M. UMN’s contract with FSN to broadcast about 28 games/yr or so is substantially less than that.

The BTN footprint already reaches 14 times the amount of households in the US and Canada than FSN, and is positioned to increase that by 60% over the next five years. Multiply that by a few cents increase in carriage fees/household, include a projected ad revenue increase of over $80M, and school revenue kickbacks from the BTN will by far exceed the relatively stagnant revenue growth potential of any local RSN.

Yeah, you clearly know more than I do about the operating costs\expenses for athletics at the University in general. As I said in my post, I'm not clear as to how much of an increase in advertisting revenue adding the extra hockey games to the BTN programming will bring, but if it is as significant as you make it sound, then I agree with you that even Minnesota may see an increase of revenue. I do remain somewhat skeptical that adding hockey will increase the advertising revenue all that much, but I guess we'll see.

I would like to see some projections, but I'm not sure any are available for public consumption at this time. I do stand by my point that the Gophers are in a far better position than the other schools in the BTHC in terms of the revenue generated by it's hockey program. If the increase in revenue generated by adding hockey to the BTN programming isn't as significant as you suggest, then the Gophers stand to gain far less than the other programs in the BTHC.

You bring up an excellent point in the # of households reached and how even a small increase in carrying fee will generate a signficant revenue increase, so I guess I will take your word for it until I see differently. Thanks for the explanation :)
 
Last edited:
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

It's been said earlier, but the fears is that the NCHC, Big Ten, Hockey East will get all the coverage and choke the life out the ECAC and the remnants of the WCHA, CCHA, Atlantic Hockey, etc. I love that there will be more coverage, but there are some pretty good matchups in the other conferences. (Clarkson-SLU, Yale-Harvard to name a few.) I understand that the big names will get the lion's share, but the other guys need some run too.
 
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

Yeah, you clearly know more than I do about the operating costs\expenses for athletics at the University in general. As I said in my post, I'm not clear as to how much of an increase in advertisting revenue adding the extra hockey games to the BTN programming will bring, but if it is as significant as you make it sound, then I agree with you that even Minnesota may see an increase of revenue. I do remain somewhat skeptical that adding hockey will increase the advertising revenue all that much, but I guess we'll see.

I would like to see some projections, but I'm not sure any are available for public consumption at this time. I do stand by my point that the Gophers are in a far better position than the other schools in the BTHC in terms of the revenue generated by it's hockey program. If the increase in revenue generated by adding hockey to the BTN programming isn't as significant as you suggest, then the Gophers stand to gain far less than the other programs in the BTHC.

You bring up an excellent point in the # of households reached and how even a small increase in carrying fee will generate a signficant revenue increase, so I guess I will take your word for it until I see differently. Thanks for the explanation :)

There are significant BTN revenue projections out there, which as many pundits have pointed out is the main reason why Nebraska...a huge national brand, was clamoring for an invitation to the Big Ten gravy train and after finally getting the nod, signed happily on the dotted line. Adding Nebraska means the BTN has the potential to essentially run track from the Atlantic to the Pacific with even the potential to increase license fees above their current average of $.88/household and rake in outlandish profits in the millions. Adding hockey will obviously be challenging in some respects, but remember marketing today surfs the wave of branding, and the Big Ten brand will draw reasonable to high ratings for hockey based upon that alone. Add strategic program scheduling, demographic specific advertising and historic rivalries between Ohio State-Penn State, Minnesota-Wisconsin, etc. and ratings will most likely be favorable in many national media markets in the US and Canada.

According to the BTN, 60% of their revenue is derived from advertising. They will most likely bundle sponsorships with programming based upon demographic research for college hockey, but no doubt marketers will stand in line to buy airtime simply because it's the Big Ten. In fact, advertising revenue has steadily increased since it's inception in 2007 (last year 30%) and will most definitely continue to escalate with or without hockey.

Peace!:)

Even after paying its guaranteed rights fees to the conference of more than $60 million last year, the network was so profitable that the Big Ten's share amounted to an additional $66 million, which each school shared in equally. "We hoped it would be profitable eventually. But it turned a profit in, what, its second year?" said Minnesota athletic director Joel Maturi, whose athletic budget reaped an estimated $22 million in TV rights (including ABC, CBS and ESPN contracts) alone. "I don't believe anyone truly expected to be this successful this quickly. It's absolutely remarkable."
 
Last edited:
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

It's been said earlier, but the fears is that the NCHC, Big Ten, Hockey East will get all the coverage and choke the life out the ECAC and the remnants of the WCHA, CCHA, Atlantic Hockey, etc. I love that there will be more coverage, but there are some pretty good matchups in the other conferences. (Clarkson-SLU, Yale-Harvard to name a few.) I understand that the big names will get the lion's share, but the other guys need some run too.

Atlantic Hockey barely gets any TV coverage at all - so I don't think it chokes any life out of them. At BEST, CBS Sports broadcasts 1 AHA game - last year RIT-Niagara was covered. I believe they did Air Force-Army once. But I think that is about it.
 
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

According to the BTN, 60% of their revenue is derived from advertising.

Harley, where did you get this number from? I saw a similar number floated around last year during the Big Ten expansion talks, but I thought it was debunked.

Also, the UM contingent seems to think that the Gopher games not televised on the BTN will be on FSN -- is this fact? I found this surprising since it sounded like the BTN was going to use hockey to bolster its online platform/presence (read: pay-per-view.) If games not being televised by the BTN will be made available to other outlets, I will be much happier.
 
Last edited:
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

Atlantic Hockey barely gets any TV coverage at all - so I don't think it chokes any life out of them. At BEST, CBS Sports broadcasts 1 AHA game - last year RIT-Niagara was covered. I believe they did Air Force-Army once. But I think that is about it.

Air Force has had 3 games broadcast by CBS sports during the past two seasons.
 
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

Harley, where did you get this number from? I saw a similar number floated around last year during the Big Ten expansion talks, but I thought it was debunked.

Also, the UM contingent seems to think that the Gopher games not televised on the BTN will be on FSN -- is this fact? I found this surprising since it sounded like the BTN was going to use hockey to bolster its online platform/presence (read: pay-per-view.) If games not being televised by the BTN will be made available to other outlets, I will be much happier.

Nothing has been disclosed as of yet, but I am fairly confident that FSN will pick up the Gopher games that aren't broadcasted by the BTN. Virtually all of our games are televised state-wide right now. I think you would see MAJOR unrest in our fanbase if they cut TV Coverage down to only the conference games televised by the BTN and made us pay for the other games.
 
Last edited:
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

The regulation and control of higher education in the U.S.A. is in the hands of the highest bidder. For example, the Economics Department of Florida State University is run by the Koch brothers - you can look it up. Control of a college hockey program is probably a more attractive target for big money than an economics department, especially if winning college hockey championships is a higher priority than academic excellence.

While government is cutting funds for higher education wealthy zealots are eagerly funding American colleges to sacrifice academic freedom and the pursuit of knowledge for ideological purity and the pursuit of sports trophies. We will reap what we sow.
 
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

Air Force has had 3 games broadcast by CBS sports during the past two seasons.

Not that they haven't deserved it, but I am surprised it was that much. I recall CBS and ESPNU carrying seperate games of an Air Force-Army series.
 
It's been said earlier, but the fears is that the NCHC, Big Ten, Hockey East will get all the coverage and choke the life out the ECAC and the remnants of the WCHA, CCHA, Atlantic Hockey, etc. I love that there will be more coverage, but there are some pretty good matchups in the other conferences. (Clarkson-SLU, Yale-Harvard to name a few.) I understand that the big names will get the lion's share, but the other guys need some run too.

You're making it sound like NBC/Versus will be the only station covering games. It's additional coverage. They have no obligation to show bad teams.
 
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

You're making it sound like NBC/Versus will be the only station covering games. It's additional coverage. They have no obligation to show bad teams.

Not saying that at all, but I just have a feeling that the NCHC and Big Ten will get the coverage and leave ECAC with nothing.
 
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

Nothing has been disclosed as of yet, but I am fairly confident that FSN will pick up the Gopher games that aren't broadcasted by the BTN. Virtually all of our games are televised state-wide right now. I think you would see MAJOR unrest in our fanbase if they cut TV Coverage down to only the conference games televised by the BTN and made us pay for the other games.

Any game the BTN doesnt want FSN has the right too show. It has been confirmed by a few sources that are rather trustworthy. I would bet you will see almost all of the non-con games on FSN.
 
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

Any game the BTN doesnt want FSN has the right too show. It has been confirmed by a few sources that are rather trustworthy. I would bet you will see almost all of the non-con games on FSN.

Excellent! Thanks Handy :)
 
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

Not saying that at all, but I just have a feeling that the NCHC and Big Ten will get the coverage and leave ECAC with nothing.

I don't even know the BHHC will be getting coverage. All the schools in that new league will be from small markets.
 
Re: Why the negativity towards more TV coverage?

I don't even know the BHHC will be getting coverage. All the schools in that new league will be from small markets.

Agreed. Boston College, Notre Dame and The B1G will have priority over just about everyone. It's not as though one game a week on Versus is going to elminate the need to still have internet subscriptions (All-Access, B2, ect.) So I don't really see the point of getting bent out of shape about who ends up on the broadcast. It will be nice to just have another game to watch every week.
 
Back
Top