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Why does the West even have hockey?
- Thread starter westscout
- Start date
PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
Yea they've done that a lot in the past 15 years...
Yea they've done that a lot in the past 15 years...
Matthew Webb
Whiner.
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
Of course. Besides, life would be far less entertaining without it.
Do we have hear this same old ***** every year?
Of course. Besides, life would be far less entertaining without it.
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
MW4Bucky&SNC
Done with Winter
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
I said I was done complaining a couple of days ago and I want to make it clear I am. This isn't a complaint, but just thinking things thru and having a moment of clarity about the NCAA setup for D3 hockey.
I was thinking about who SNC should be mad at for getting the shaft. The answer is simple...themselves. I don't believe Gustavus was the last Pool C, so if SNC had just tanked against River Falls they would have gotten a Pool C and likely bumped an Eastern team. Then we would have had 6-5, SNC still would have been the top seed in the West, and they would have played tonight's West play-in winner on Saturday. It cracks me up that they would have been better of losing. This is somewhat tongue in cheek obviously, but I honestly think this is the scenario. Of course the NCAA probably would have send Adrian East in that case and done a play-in with the two MIAC schools and two NCHA schools anyway.
I said I was done complaining a couple of days ago and I want to make it clear I am. This isn't a complaint, but just thinking things thru and having a moment of clarity about the NCAA setup for D3 hockey.
I was thinking about who SNC should be mad at for getting the shaft. The answer is simple...themselves. I don't believe Gustavus was the last Pool C, so if SNC had just tanked against River Falls they would have gotten a Pool C and likely bumped an Eastern team. Then we would have had 6-5, SNC still would have been the top seed in the West, and they would have played tonight's West play-in winner on Saturday. It cracks me up that they would have been better of losing. This is somewhat tongue in cheek obviously, but I honestly think this is the scenario. Of course the NCAA probably would have send Adrian East in that case and done a play-in with the two MIAC schools and two NCHA schools anyway.
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
Both Bowdoin and Plattsburgh tie on primary criteria totals, and we saw ample demonstration again this year that it's impossible to overestimate the emphasis placed on SOS. I think Plattsburgh clearly beats them out, and Bowdoin, while a tougher call, still has both the crucial SOS and a comparable ranked opponents mark. Plus, if they decided it was close enough to bring in the secondaries, Bowdoin actually managed an even more impressive late-season drive than the Gusties. All-in-all, if I were you I wouldn't worry myself over the repercussions of a win.
It's an interesting thought, but:
Code:
Bowdoin vs Gustavus Adolphus
WIN 0.7174 0 0.7500 1
OWP 0.5184 1 0.5121 0
OOP 0.5157 1 0.4949 0
H2H 0- 0- 0 0 0- 0- 0 0
COP 0- 0- 0 0 0- 0- 0 0
RNK 6- 3- 1 0 5- 2- 0 1
============================================
PTS 2 2
============================================
PWR 10 3
Gustavus Adolphus vs Plattsburgh
WIN 0.7500 1 0.7407 0
OWP 0.5121 0 0.5892 1
OOP 0.4949 0 0.5063 1
H2H 0- 0- 0 0 0- 0- 0 0
COP 0- 0- 0 0 0- 0- 0 0
RNK 5- 2- 0 1 2- 5- 3 0
============================================
PTS 2 2
============================================
PWR 14 10Both Bowdoin and Plattsburgh tie on primary criteria totals, and we saw ample demonstration again this year that it's impossible to overestimate the emphasis placed on SOS. I think Plattsburgh clearly beats them out, and Bowdoin, while a tougher call, still has both the crucial SOS and a comparable ranked opponents mark. Plus, if they decided it was close enough to bring in the secondaries, Bowdoin actually managed an even more impressive late-season drive than the Gusties. All-in-all, if I were you I wouldn't worry myself over the repercussions of a win.
imagemangler
New member
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
Don't you mean rob Plattsburgh of a bye?
Why would Oswego, who won the SUNYACs, beat the Cards for it at that, had a better record than the Cards, were #1 in the country for many weeks, NOT get a bye, yet Plattsburgh would get one?
The NCAA committee may be questionable but I highly doubt they'd be THAT crooked.
Don't you mean rob Plattsburgh of a bye?
Why would Oswego, who won the SUNYACs, beat the Cards for it at that, had a better record than the Cards, were #1 in the country for many weeks, NOT get a bye, yet Plattsburgh would get one?
The NCAA committee may be questionable but I highly doubt they'd be THAT crooked.
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
Welcome to the board...
Cards said it correctly. Giving SNC a bye would have robbed Oswego of a bye. If SNC gets a bye, the entire west has to get a bye, thus Bowdoin, Platty, Middlebury, and Oswego would NOT get those byes.
It's not as simple as giving SNC a bye and taking away one bye from the East. Everything has a trickle down effect.
Cards is not saying Platty deserves a bye over Oswego at all.
Welcome to the board...
Cards said it correctly. Giving SNC a bye would have robbed Oswego of a bye. If SNC gets a bye, the entire west has to get a bye, thus Bowdoin, Platty, Middlebury, and Oswego would NOT get those byes.
It's not as simple as giving SNC a bye and taking away one bye from the East. Everything has a trickle down effect.
Cards is not saying Platty deserves a bye over Oswego at all.
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
Exactly.
Did St. Norbert deserve a bye? Absolutely.
Did Plattsburgh deserve a bye? No way.
Did Oswego Deserve a bye? Is that even a question?
But here's the kicker:
Did St. Norbert deserve the bye more than Oswego? IMHO, absolutely not.
Thus, SNC did not get a bye.
Exactly.
Did St. Norbert deserve a bye? Absolutely.
Did Plattsburgh deserve a bye? No way.
Did Oswego Deserve a bye? Is that even a question?
But here's the kicker:
Did St. Norbert deserve the bye more than Oswego? IMHO, absolutely not.
Thus, SNC did not get a bye.
93GreatLaker
Registered User
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
--wherever there is injustice, you will find us. --wherever there is suffering, we'll be there. --wherever liberty is threatened, you will find...THE THREE AMIGOS!!!
Bruce Delventhal is Norm's "El Guapo".
--wherever there is injustice, you will find us. --wherever there is suffering, we'll be there. --wherever liberty is threatened, you will find...THE THREE AMIGOS!!!
Bruce Delventhal is Norm's "El Guapo".
norm1909
Larry Normandin
imagemangler
New member
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
Thanks for the clarification above. I'm still a bit confused by some of the decisions of who going to the big dance that was made. Then I get depressed trying to navigate the official NCAA site which treats DIII hockey, and DIII in general, like the redheaded bastard stepchild to everything DI, truly feels like they don't care and want all the attention to be on DI schools. Sad.
Thanks for the clarification above. I'm still a bit confused by some of the decisions of who going to the big dance that was made. Then I get depressed trying to navigate the official NCAA site which treats DIII hockey, and DIII in general, like the redheaded bastard stepchild to everything DI, truly feels like they don't care and want all the attention to be on DI schools. Sad.
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
They don't care about d-3 and they certainly don't want to spend any money on d-3. The easterners know this and use this to their advantage.
As for criteria, it is a croc of poop. They don't use them. If they had, CSS would have been in the tourney and we would have a 6-5 split. CSS was screwed as well. They deserved to be in as well and were punished because STU happened to win the league. If STU would have lost the West would have had three teams, even more of a screw job. They system needs to change, because right now, it is the EIT....Eastern Invitational Tourney.
Westscout
They don't care about d-3 and they certainly don't want to spend any money on d-3. The easterners know this and use this to their advantage.
As for criteria, it is a croc of poop. They don't use them. If they had, CSS would have been in the tourney and we would have a 6-5 split. CSS was screwed as well. They deserved to be in as well and were punished because STU happened to win the league. If STU would have lost the West would have had three teams, even more of a screw job. They system needs to change, because right now, it is the EIT....Eastern Invitational Tourney.
Westscout
PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
You're living in a fantasy land of perceived western domination. 17-5-6 is not getting CSS - or anyone - a Pool C bid. Plattsburgh got a Pool C at 18-5-4, but they played a monster schedule, with most of the tough ones on the road.
You're living in a fantasy land of perceived western domination. 17-5-6 is not getting CSS - or anyone - a Pool C bid. Plattsburgh got a Pool C at 18-5-4, but they played a monster schedule, with most of the tough ones on the road.
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
Had CSS finished 3-1 instead of 0-2-2, they'd be in. I saw with my own eyes how they struggled with teams like UWEC, UWS, and UWRF at the worst time in the season. Record wise, they were close to the tourney. Playing-wise, they just deteriorated the last weekend and into playoffs, and in my opinion, did not earn a ticket to the big dance.
Had CSS finished 3-1 instead of 0-2-2, they'd be in. I saw with my own eyes how they struggled with teams like UWEC, UWS, and UWRF at the worst time in the season. Record wise, they were close to the tourney. Playing-wise, they just deteriorated the last weekend and into playoffs, and in my opinion, did not earn a ticket to the big dance.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
Most of the games were on the road period
Only 11 regular season home games and 14 regular season away games - add in post season and it will be 12 regular season home games and at least 16 regular season away games (hopefully 18). Next year, however, will be much better, as Plattsburgh hosts the PrimeLink 
Most of the games were on the road period
Only 11 regular season home games and 14 regular season away games - add in post season and it will be 12 regular season home games and at least 16 regular season away games (hopefully 18). Next year, however, will be much better, as Plattsburgh hosts the PrimeLink
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?
My thoughts too. Bowdoin? Plattsburgh?
My analysis: Plattsburgh is clearly ahead of Bowdoin, so if only 1 of the 3 is out, it's not Plattsburgh. I say clearly because, while it was only a 3-2 split, and SOS categories were split, Plattsburgh's total SOS is miles ahead of Bowdoin, and Plattsburgh takes the WIN (which is typically viewed as an important category alongside SOS). So Plattsbrgh's in.
Plattsburgh-CSS was a tie, and the SOS categories were split, Plattsburgh still takes the overall SOS and the WIN. Again, Plattsburgh's in.
CSS-Bowdoin was a tie, and CSS did take both SOS categories by slim margins while Bowdoin took WIN by an even narrower margin, so the committee would have been able to justify their decision either way. I'll admit, $$ and flights probably came into the discussion, but for I'll sake, I'll delve into the secondary criteria to try to break this tie:
I'm interested to see the Overall DIII SOS metric (2/3 OWP, 1/3 OOP) I could calculate it, except that I would have to factor Salem State into CSS's numbers, and that would be a long process that I just don't have time for-sorry
But I don't think it much matters, since Bowdoin CLEARLY wins the secondary criteria battle. Thus, Bowdoin's in, CSS is out.
My thoughts too. Bowdoin? Plattsburgh?
Code:
Bowdoin St. Scholastica
WIN 0.7174 1 0.7037 0
OWP 0.5184 0 0.5408 1
OOP 0.5157 0 0.5413 1
H2H 0-0-0 0 0-0-0 0
COP 0-0-0 0 0-0-0 0
RNK 6-3-1 1 3-3-2 0
===========================================
PTS 2 2
Code:
Plattsburgh St. Scholastica
WIN 0.7407 1 0.7037 0
OWP 0.5892 1 0.5408 0
OOP 0.5063 0 0.5413 1
H2H 0-0-0 0 0-0-0 0
COP 0-0-0 0 0-0-0 0
RNK 2-5-3 0 3-3-2 1
===========================================
PTS 2 2
Code:
Bowdoin Plattsburgh
WIN 0.7174 0 0.7407 1
OWP 0.5184 0 0.5892 1
OOP 0.5157 1 0.5063 0
H2H 0-0-0 0 0-0-0 0
COP 3-3-1 0 4-2-2 1
RNK 6-3-1 1 2-5-3 0
============================================
PTS 2 3My analysis: Plattsburgh is clearly ahead of Bowdoin, so if only 1 of the 3 is out, it's not Plattsburgh. I say clearly because, while it was only a 3-2 split, and SOS categories were split, Plattsburgh's total SOS is miles ahead of Bowdoin, and Plattsburgh takes the WIN (which is typically viewed as an important category alongside SOS). So Plattsbrgh's in.
Plattsburgh-CSS was a tie, and the SOS categories were split, Plattsburgh still takes the overall SOS and the WIN. Again, Plattsburgh's in.
CSS-Bowdoin was a tie, and CSS did take both SOS categories by slim margins while Bowdoin took WIN by an even narrower margin, so the committee would have been able to justify their decision either way. I'll admit, $$ and flights probably came into the discussion, but for I'll sake, I'll delve into the secondary criteria to try to break this tie:
Code:
Bowdoin St. Scholastica
OORH2H 0-0-0 0 0-0-0 0
AD3WIN 0.7292 1 0.7143 0
COPND3 0-0-0 0 0-0-0 0
OVRRNK 6-3-1 1 3-3-2 0
OVRWIN 0.7500 1 0.7143 0
OVRCOP 0-0-0 0 0-0-0 0
OVRSOS ? ? ? ?
L25WIN 0.8571 1 0.500 0
===========================================
PTS 4? 0?I'm interested to see the Overall DIII SOS metric (2/3 OWP, 1/3 OOP) I could calculate it, except that I would have to factor Salem State into CSS's numbers, and that would be a long process that I just don't have time for-sorry
But I don't think it much matters, since Bowdoin CLEARLY wins the secondary criteria battle. Thus, Bowdoin's in, CSS is out.