What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Why does the West even have hockey?

Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

joeyc3402 said:
People are mad - I get that. However, how many people are mad enough to start a lynch mob to demand answers besides yourself?

We know the NCAA is all about money. By not making public statements saying "we proposed it, but the NCAA shot it down," I would argue that the committee as a whole is performing a more admirable action by taking the blame, something that "cowards" wouldn't do.

But if you don't believe the "hearsay," then contact the committee yourself. Start an online petition. Make a blog posting. Contact Mitch Albom and have him demand answers. There are many more ways to waste your time on this issue.
Click to expand...

I feel I owe a reply to those who reply :cool:

As for the committee "taking the blame" - let them at least do that - let them publicly state - "the NCAA is all about money" - and we are the NCAA. No, their actions (in action) make them look like cowards, standing in front of their mirrors like the queen in Snow White.

Sometimes justice takes time - but it usually wins.
 
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

joeyc3402 said:
We know the NCAA is all about money. By not making public statements saying "we proposed it, but the NCAA shot it down," I would argue that the committee as a whole is performing a more admirable action by taking the blame, something that "cowards" wouldn't do.
Click to expand...

We all know the NCAA is about money, it will be interesting to see what they do next year, or would have done this year if the Final Four was in the West. Would they have had 2 western teams in the Final Four, my guess is yes. Next year, what will they do?
 
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

norm1909 said:
As for the committee "taking the blame" - let them at least do that - let them publicly state - "the NCAA is all about money" - and we are the NCAA. No, their actions (in action) make them look like cowards, standing in front of their mirrors like the queen in Snow White.
Click to expand...

OK - you lost me here.

The committee submitted a proposal that the NCAA shot down.

The committee is a group designated by the NCAA to select the teams for the NCAA to invite. The NCAA can approve or reject those selections. In this case, the NCAA rejected the selections.

Again - the committee IS NOT the NCAA. They don't owe anyone an apology or an explanation, because right now, they're essentially taking the hit for the NCAA, who is the group that forced the committee to take away SNC's rightful bye. If you want them to stick to their principles and resign, great.

It's their job to pick a tournament bracket and participating teams according to the NCAA's guidelines. To set aside their duty for personal beliefs would be absolutely selfish, and THAT should require official "public" statements and explanations. Luckily for us, the committee accepted their hand and finished their job that they were tasked with.

Like I said, though, if you want actual change or explanations, call them yourselves. Otherwise, quit going on about how they owe all of us an explanation, because - guess what? - it's not coming.
 
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

joeyc3402 said:
OK - you lost me here.

The committee submitted a proposal that the NCAA shot down.

The committee is a group designated by the NCAA to select the teams for the NCAA to invite. The NCAA can approve or reject those selections. In this case, the NCAA rejected the selections.

Again - the committee IS NOT the NCAA. They don't owe anyone an apology or an explanation, because right now, they're essentially taking the hit for the NCAA, who is the group that forced the committee to take away SNC's rightful bye. If you want them to stick to their principles and resign, great.

It's their job to pick a tournament bracket and participating teams according to the NCAA's guidelines. To set aside their duty for personal beliefs would be absolutely selfish, and THAT should require official "public" statements and explanations. Luckily for us, the committee accepted their hand and finished their job that they were tasked with.

Like I said, though, if you want actual change or explanations, call them yourselves. Otherwise, quit going on about how they owe all of us an explanation, because - guess what? - it's not coming.
Click to expand...

The issue is, in part, the statements in bold. although I have mentioned it myself, Norm is right to call it hearsay. There is no proof of this occurring.

Also, NCAA (in this alleged occurrence), did not reject team selections, as your post seems to imply (unless I'm misreading it). They (allegedly) rejected the (allegedly) proposed tournament bracket, because there was an alternative with fewer flights (something the NCAA Championships Handbook specifically calls for).

The rest of this post I have no quarrel with.
 
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

joeyc3402 said:
...
The committee submitted a proposal that the NCAA shot down...
Click to expand...

What is the source of this comment?

joeyc3402 said:
... If you want them to stick to their principles and resign, great...
Click to expand...

IF they had honorable principles - they would have resigned.

joeyc3402 said:
... It's their job to pick a tournament bracket and participating teams according to the NCAA's guidelines. To set aside their duty for personal beliefs would be absolutely selfish, and THAT should require official "public" statements and explanations. Luckily for us, the committee accepted their hand and finished their job that they were tasked with....
Click to expand...

I don't see that as their primary task - I see their primary task as supporting good sportsmanship - at that they failed. To put ones desire to have the status of a "committee member" or "committee chair" above ethics is selfish. Unfortunately for us, we are victims of at least the majority of the committee (I have to believe that some members resisted).

joeyc3402 said:
...Like I said, though, if you want actual change or explanations, call them yourselves. Otherwise, quit going on about how they owe all of us an explanation, because - guess what? - it's not coming.
Click to expand...

I agree, it is not coming - because there is no excuse for what they did, so of course they have nothing to say.
 
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

norm1909 said:
What is the source of this comment?
Click to expand...

The committee members who spoke off the record and wished to remain anonymous. If you choose not to believe it, then that's your prerogative.

To flip the coin on you, prove to me that the committee willingly screwed over St. Norbert with no help from the NCAA. Unless you provide a source and a quote, I won't believe you.

norm1909 said:
IF they had honorable principles - they would have resigned.

I don't see that as their primary task - I see their primary task as supporting good sportsmanship - at that they failed. To put ones desire to have the status of a "committee member" or "committee chair" above ethics is selfish. Unfortunately for us, we are victims of at least the majority of the committee (I have to believe that some members resisted).
Click to expand...

Personal beliefs above duty? Seriously?

Their duty is to serve the D-III hockey community by going through the crap of dealing with the NCAA and selection criteria. The NCAA followed a guideline that has been in place since before many of the committee members were a part of the committee. They joined the committee knowing full well what the rules were. It's not like the NCAA strayed wildly away from their normal guidelines, and it's not like the NCAA made up the rules as they went along. They followed the guidelines that were already in place.

Based on that, it would be absolutely childish to put your "principles" ahead of the rules and one ruling.

As far as the "some members resisted," yes - they in fact voted NOT to have Adrian go to St. Norbert... but you can keep on not believing that.

...and I won't even comment on "their primary task is to promote good sportsmanship." What is the source of this comment?
 
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

Oh I'm sorry ,I thought this was the------ why does the ECAC West even have hockey thread,anyway the ncaa is a joke.
 
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

joeyc3402 said:
The committee members who spoke off the record and wished to remain anonymous. If you choose not to believe it, then that's your prerogative.
Click to expand...

Did they speak to you?

joeyc3402 said:
To flip the coin on you, prove to me that the committee willingly screwed over St. Norbert with no help from the NCAA. Unless you provide a source and a quote, I won't believe you.
Click to expand...

No, I do agree the NCAA is the source of the problem, my problem with the committee, is that as you noted, the problem has existed for longer than most of them have been members. That said, that fact doesn't mean it no longer is a problem, in fact, IMO, it increases the burden on them to do something about it - at least publicly recognize it is wrong and start towards a solution.

joeyc3402 said:
Personal beliefs above duty? Seriously?
Click to expand...

You are right again, to expect them to put their duty (to promote good sportsmanship and serve in the best interest of the sport) above their Personal beliefs (egotist), is unrealistic.

joeyc3402 said:
Their duty is to serve the D-III hockey community by going through the crap of dealing with the NCAA and selection criteria. The NCAA followed a guideline that has been in place since before many of the committee members were a part of the committee. They joined the committee knowing full well what the rules were. It's not like the NCAA strayed wildly away from their normal guidelines, and it's not like the NCAA made up the rules as they went along. They followed the guidelines that were already in place.

Based on that, it would be absolutely childish to put your "principles" ahead of the rules and one ruling.

As far as the "some members resisted," yes - they in fact voted NOT to have Adrian go to St. Norbert... but you can keep on not believing that.

...and I won't even comment on "their primary task is to promote good sportsmanship." What is the source of this comment?
Click to expand...

Well, if their "primary task" is something other than "promote good sportsmanship", what is it - to be puppets - mouthpieces for the NCAA? If so, the problem is theirs.

I agree, "they joined the committee knowing full well what the rules were", that doesn't mean they have no obligation to try to create a better system, anyone can maintain the status quo, competent individuals can make it better.
 
Last edited:
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

Norm, I'm sure that if you ran the world it'd be full of rainbows and puppies and unicorns, and that everyone would be happy and do the right thing. Sadly this is not the case. I hate to be cynical but have you ever stopped to think that perhaps they don't want to change the system or perhaps that they are incapable of doing so? Do I think that something should be done? Yes. The truth of the matter is that only a miracle is going to bring such change about and that until such a time we are going to have to grin and bear it or else find a new sport to follow. For those who are fed up with hockey might I suggest the thrilling world of ribbon dancing?
 
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

He should stand by his convictions, and boycott the tournament.

Then even more people will be happY!
 
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

osuhockeyfan said:
Norm, I'm sure that if you ran the world it'd be full of rainbows and puppies and unicorns, and that everyone would be happy and do the right thing. Sadly this is not the case. I hate to be cynical but have you ever stopped to think that perhaps they don't want to change the system or perhaps that they are incapable of doing so? Do I think that something should be done? Yes. The truth of the matter is that only a miracle is going to bring such change about and that until such a time we are going to have to grin and bear it or else find a new sport to follow. For those who are fed up with hockey might I suggest the thrilling world of ribbon dancing?
Click to expand...

If I had seen ANY evidence of the Selection Committee EVER trying, I might believe "that they are incapable of doing so, but since I haven't, I believe "that perhaps they don't want to change the system" - that is my problem with them. While I am not amused by the talking heads of the NCAA, I find great amusement in the talents of the student athletes despite the best efforts of the NCAA to totally ruin it, yes Bruce has greatly diminished the sport, but he hasn't killed it yet.
 
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

norm1909 said:
If I had seen ANY evidence of the Selection Committee EVER trying, I might believe "that they are incapable of doing so, but since I haven't, I believe "that perhaps they don't want to change the system" - that is my problem with them. While I am not amused by the talking heads of the NCAA, I find great amusement in the talents of the student athletes despite the best efforts of the NCAA to totally ruin it, yes Bruce has greatly diminished the sport, but he hasn't killed it yet.
Click to expand...

I've seen no evidence showing that they haven't tried everything in their power to change things, so I'm going to say that they've tried to change the system.
 
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

joeyc3402 said:
I've seen no evidence showing that they haven't tried everything in their power to change things, so I'm going to say that they've tried to change the system.
Click to expand...

I believe SOME may have tried, but by now, they have to try harder (maybe a class from Avis ;) ).

What I have "seen" is a history of closed door meetings and secrets to reach decisions that the public, though state tuition assistance programs, PELL, GSL's, direct aid, research grants, the GI Bill, ROTC, tax-exempt status, etc have significantly funded. This isn't the board of Toyota, these are the people we trust to represent our student athletes; I find their public record a disgrace.
 
Re: Why does the West even have hockey?

jerrynu26 said:
Yet you continue to support them with money..................
Click to expand...

From post #35 above:
norm1909 said:
... While I am not amused by the talking heads of the NCAA, I find great amusement in the talents of the student athletes despite the best efforts of the NCAA to totally ruin it, yes Bruce has greatly diminished the sport, but he hasn't killed it yet.
Click to expand...

I do continue to state my thoughts on them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top