Who should South Korea fear Most

[Jon]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

Who should North Korea fear?

My cat.

Or the PGA's impending investigation of how Our Dear Leader can shoot a hole in one in every hole.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

And what can we do to get them to do a little house cleaning?

Give them speaking tours?

Honestly, that's a real problem. Imagine a reunified Korean peninsula or even a peaceful NK-SK relationship. You don't need a (holy crap, one-fifth of the entire male population -- in peacetime! 1M standing 8M reserve!) enormous military under those conditions, so the military structure and prestige would be greatly reduced.

It might be cost-effective to do what city states used to do -- literally bribe away the entire high command to behead their military, and then just walk in. 500 generals at $10M per head is a one-time $5B cost. (Even more effective, how about 50,000 field commanders at $100K per head.) How much have we spent in SK since the truce (although arguably some part of that has really been spent against the PRC)?

 

[pirate]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

GODZILLA!!!!!!

(Oh wait a minute. That's Japan. Sorry)

Were you watching The Hangover on HBO last night too?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

Pardon me for going all Kepler PALIN PALIN PALIN PALIN PALIN on you, but...

http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/sarah-palin-confuses-whos-on-our-side-in-northsouth-korea/

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

Seriously? I don't get why the US and China seem to have such a vested interest on a pair of countries so insignificant it's just a pimple on the earth. What does china have to gain by backing a country that can't even feed its own people?

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

S Korea is 15th in GDP - which rates better than most of the EU nations. To call them insignificant is an insult both to them and to common sense.

 

[Sloe Gin]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

Seriously? I don't get why the US and China seem to have such a vested interest on a pair of countries so insignificant it's just a pimple on the earth. What does china have to gain by backing a country that can't even feed its own people?

the United States of America has very few allies in the world that would have our backs in the event of a total world crisis. Great Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Kuwait, Poland, Georgia, Israel, and South Korea are the only countries that come to mind. The South Koreans are one of two countries in the North Pacific that we are allied with. Yeah, China ain't got our backs, none of them do. But South Korea will be there. Yeah, I think I want them on our side.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

the United States of America has very few allies in the world that would have our backs in the event of a total world crisis. Great Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Kuwait, Poland, Georgia, Israel, and South Korea are the only countries that come to mind. The South Koreans are one of two countries in the North Pacific that we are allied with. Yeah, China ain't got our backs, none of them do. But South Korea will be there. Yeah, I think I want them on our side.

Point taken.

 

[pardonme]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

And China cares because NK gives them a bit of a buffer in the direction of Japan and SK. It means they have to do a bit less to worry about that area of their border.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

Turns out NK fired over 200 shells into SK. Wow. And SK only had 6 pces of artillery on the island. For SK to just sit back and take that was quite impressive, though their defence minister quit/got fired. Hopefully the new guy isn't a hot head. On top of thier destroyer getting sunk last year by NK, they have shown great restraint.

I agree NK and SK are insignificant. I don't see SK sending more than a handful of troops to a US foreign hotzone with the present state of war with NK.

I don't see why China gives a crap about NK either, other than they send hundred of thousands of their own men to die there during the war. If China cut ties with NK, what would NK do? Attack China? Then we'd do a Hitler/Stalin Poland agreement with China to clean house and divy up the country.

A NK and SK that were united as a democratic country would pose no military threat to China. In fact, it would probably enhance their ecnomy.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

When we had a unipolar world it made geopolitical sense for secondary powers to keep the water boiling in different places. There was no way to challenge to US other than to let us overextend and bankrupt ourselves trying to hold down a global empire. If China really does mature into the Other Great Power, they'll want stability and there will come a time when they withdraw support from NK. The price to us will be a Chinese Monroe Doctrine to establish a real politik rationale to keep us out of their sphere of influence, a Chinese NATO to establish military hegemony in their region, and a Chinese Marshall Plan to structure the economies of their vassal states the way that is most advantageous to them.

 

[Patman]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

I wonder if the Norks are going to run into the same problem OBL did in overreading the US. Al-Qaeda had a very strong generalist view of the world in alignment with their own thoughts, but they over-read the failure in Somalia and the otherwise general retreat into believing that the US are a fundamentally weak nation at that time in history. While the ability is there, the will is not, thus a paper tiger. Now, the AQ world condition document demonstrated that they aren't idiots... but they're susceptible, just as we are, to misread towards our own prejudices. In that they launched the 9/11 attacks and reaped the whirlwind. They ended up with a massive loss of life, a destruction of the movement (no more OBL fetishment as existed in the late 90s and early 2000s... already forgotten... can't lead when you're dead and didn't die a heroes death), and it turned the attention of many of the west to the active islam supremacy movements.

The Norks may walk the same line... they see a weak human, Barack Obama, and they might just overreach thinking that Obama will avoid war at all costs. In the end though, that mismeasures the American people and their stomach for such overreaches that may be made by the Norks. While we may be somewhat fearful of their possession of nuclear weapons, we, as a society, do not exactly like harm done to those whom we consider human (for instance, Afghan women have not been human to those on the American left since 9/12/2001). They don't realize that whatever Obama may think, he's toast if he doesn't respond to large salvo from the North Koreans. We can let ourselves or our allies be openly pushed around in such a direct manner or else we know that we'll lose what we've gained at a real physical level and not some ethereal pride level. I'm hoping the Norks don't push those "buttons" but with an insular culture build on a nationalistic fetish, it may only be a matter of time as they won't be able to stop the inertia of their own ginned up culture against the South Koreans and the Americans. In a lot of ways, they may reap their own whirlwind and it may only be a matter of time.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

we, as a society, do not exactly like harm done to those whom we consider human (for instance, Afghan women have not been human to those on the American left since 9/12/2001).

Excuse me?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

Excuse me?

There's an Ignore button. It is your friend, like a spam filter.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

I wonder if the Norks are going to run into the same problem OBL did in overreading the US. Al-Qaeda had a very strong generalist view of the world in alignment with their own thoughts, but they over-read the failure in Somalia and the otherwise general retreat into believing that the US are a fundamentally weak nation at that time in history.

I don't think AQ/OBL were concerned about consequences of their actions. Just like any criminal, I don't think they thought at all about what if they get caught. But rather there was just enough desire to commit the crime.

In the end though, that mismeasures the American people and their stomach for such overreaches that may be made by the Norks. While we may be somewhat fearful of their possession of nuclear weapons, we, as a society, do not exactly like harm done to those whom we consider human (for instance, Afghan women have not been human to those on the American left since 9/12/2001). They don't realize that whatever Obama may think, he's toast if he doesn't respond to large salvo from the North Koreans.

Although some action is needed, IMO this is not just about Obama and the American people 'responding'. The dilemma is too great, the potential costs too high and the ramifications too wide. There are too many countries out there reaping the benefits of a stable international environment and economy...and its time the world take responsibility. Its about time that we prepare the UN and get them to take on the issue. But with that responsiblitity comes the tools and respect to get the job done.

A US war should be the very last resort...and that means, last resort.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

There's an Ignore button. It is your friend, like a spam filter.

I use it sparingly, and Patman posts good stuff in other threads. I assumed either I misread that line or he mistyped it. I can't imagine he'd be as callous as to suggest that those of us on the left think Afghan women are "not human" so he must have meant something else. Right?

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

The Norks may walk the same line... they see a weak human, Barack Obama....

So OBL viewed Junior as weak?

 

[walrus]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

So OBL viewed Junior as weak?

No, he viewed him like the rest of us, stupid

 

[Tundra]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

I wonder who's leaking all these government communication. maybe we need wikibusinessleaks on america to see what business executives are really saying about the taxcuts to stimulate the economy, bank bailouts, etc...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/29cables.html?no_interstitial

Gaming out an eventual collapse of North Korea: American and South Korean officials have discussed the prospects for a unified Korea, should the North’s economic troubles and political transition lead the state to implode. The South Koreans even considered commercial inducements to China, according to the American ambassador to Seoul. She told Washington in February that South Korean officials believe that the right business deals would “help salve” China’s “concerns about living with a reunified Korea” that is in a “benign alliance” with the United States.

And then China intercepting 15% of the world internet traffic recently including pentagon and other government agency. by a simple IP signal making it seem they had the fastest connection. But NSA does the same thing with all voice/data traffic that come thru USA network.

A global computer hacking effort: China’s Politburo directed the intrusion into Google’s computer systems in that country, a Chinese contact told the American Embassy in Beijing in January, one cable reported. The Google hacking was part of a coordinated campaign of computer sabotage carried out by government operatives, private security experts and Internet outlaws recruited by the Chinese government. They have broken into American government computers and those of Western allies, the Dalai Lama and American businesses since 2002, cables said.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Who should South Korea fear Most

No, he viewed him like the rest of us, stupid

Here is a place we can achieve bipartisanship. Dubya was weak and stupid.