What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

[Patman]

It's not our fault you westerners have an issue with traveling to the east at even keeling. Even a former Denver assistant has called you out on it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>6 WCHA teams that qualified for NCAAs played 35 non conference games at home and only 10 on road thats a joke/criteria needs adjusting</p>— Seth Appert (@SethAppert) <a href="https://twitter.com/SethAppert/status/317764636436996098">March 29, 2013</a></blockquote>
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Home ice is worth between a net of .18 and .30 goals a game... While its a advantage it is not mind blowing. The bigger issue is attendance and $ disparity induced by these arrangements

Edit: some adjustment factor is coming... Question is how strong?

Edit #2: it might be worth some while to try to do some ad hoc analysis of RPI under configurations w and w out home ice.... Calibration may be with something to stop the NCAA from doing something kinda dumb

 

[Bale]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

It's very simple for Minnesota - every home game they give up costs the program over $350K, and that's just tickets. Throw in concessions and parking and it's close to $500K. Since they are the third largest revenue sport the school has (and most profitable in % terms), they need to generate as many dollars as they can to support the other non-rev sports, of which Minnesota has many. I vaguely remember they carry more sports teams than any other school in the Big 10 but couldn't find any validation. Throw in that the athletic department is self sufficient and receives no $$$ from the school or state, and you have the current recipe for home vs. road. It's likely the reason the FB and BB teams play a very tilted home non-con schedule as well.

Regardless, they need the money, that's why they don't travel often. I personally loved the years when they had the shared schedule with the HE and we would see a couple of teams from that league every year, but that ended about 15 or 20 years ago.

With all due respect, I get that the hockey program needs to help fund other programs, but can you explain how that's different than anyone else? Most of the schools that support D1 hockey make money. In fact, it's probably MORE important for them to have home games simply due to the fact that they need to keep their programs profitable and not lose money. I'm not saying MN is bad, I'm not into bashing the Gophers as some people are, but let's just admit what it is. It's a power-play-money-grab. They can get away with it because some smaller schools are willing to bump their revenue once every 3-4 years.

 

[Bale]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

As for who is going to be good, from a WCHA standpoint I would be both shocked and disappointed if MSU wasn't in the top 2 teams. We've got the chance to compete in the national tourney and should win the conference. We've lost our leading scorer, but most of the offense is back as well as this year's top goalie in the conference.

 

[burd]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

No Chit!!!!
If Yale hadn't gotten those 2 cream puffs in the regional, they never would have made it to the Frozen Four.
Lucky bahstahds.

Luck and bad ice.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

...but let's just admit what it is. It's a power-play-money-grab.

Isn't that exactly how he described it? Sadly, were it up to the fans (and I suspect the players and coaches would agree) the NC schedule would have been different the past decade.

The good news is that the NC road schedule is going to be more robust starting this season.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

With all due respect, I get that the hockey program needs to help fund other programs, but can you explain how that's different than anyone else? Most of the schools that support D1 hockey make money. In fact, it's probably MORE important for them to have home games simply due to the fact that they need to keep their programs profitable and not lose money. I'm not saying MN is bad, I'm not into bashing the Gophers as some people are, but let's just admit what it is. It's a power-play-money-grab. They can get away with it because some smaller schools are willing to bump their revenue once every 3-4 years.

I don't think he's suggesting that it's different with everyone else.

But it isn't the UMN's job to worry about everyone else. Their job is to worry about their school, and hockey within the state as a whole to some extent.

And again, when a team like BC or BU comes West to play at Bemidji, Mankato, or Michigan Tech, then I'll start listening to the complaints about the big schools out West not traveling East enough.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

Home ice is worth between a net of .18 and .30 goals a game... While its a advantage it is not mind blowing. The bigger issue is attendance and $ disparity induced by these arrangements

Edit: some adjustment factor is coming... Question is how strong?

Edit #2: it might be worth some while to try to do some ad hoc analysis of RPI under configurations w and w out home ice.... Calibration may be with something to stop the NCAA from doing something kinda dumb

Don't get me started with how Big 10 teams gets biased refs that do almost anything to ensure that home team wins. 2007 Icebreaker and 2009 GLI (although not quite successful) come to mind.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

I don't think he's suggesting that it's different with everyone else.

But it isn't the UMN's job to worry about everyone else. Their job is to worry about their school, and hockey within the state as a whole to some extent.

And again, when a team like BC or BU comes West to play at Bemidji, Mankato, or Michigan Tech, then I'll start listening to the complaints about the big schools out West not traveling East enough.

Maybe the other schools should then just flat out refuse to play you until you actually start traveling. We have 46-50 other teams we can play.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Maybe the other schools should then just flat out refuse to play you until you actually start traveling. We have 46-50 other teams we can play.

And how many of those 46-50 teams don't travel to play various other teams? Or is this just about who does and does not travel to play the teams you care about?

 

[goblue78]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

Edit: some adjustment factor is coming... Question is how strong?

Edit #2: it might be worth some while to try to do some ad hoc analysis of RPI under configurations w and w out home ice.... Calibration may be with something to stop the NCAA from doing something kinda dumb

Working on it right now, once I put the finishing touches on my RPI vs. PWR paper

 

[JoeGopher]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

Maybe the other schools should then just flat out refuse to play you until you actually start traveling. We have 46-50 other teams we can play.

That's fine, but it's kind of a Catch-22, isn't it? Smaller schools want to play the larger schools, regardless of location, because it's good for their program and good for recruiting. Plus, it's usually good for their RPI which can help them at some point.

Bottom line is hockey is just like Football and basketball in many respects. Can you imagine Alabama traveling to Northern Illinois to play a game, or Louisville playing at Princeton? It's roughly the same thing as Michigan playing at Robert Morris, or BC playing at Bemidji State. Now the reverse in location can, and does happen, usually to the benefit of the smaller schools.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

That's fine, but it's kind of a Catch-22, isn't it? Smaller schools want to play the larger schools, regardless of location, because it's good for their program and good for recruiting. Plus, it's usually good for their RPI which can help them at some point.

Bottom line is hockey is just like Football and basketball in many respects. Can you imagine Alabama traveling to Northern Illinois to play a game, or Louisville playing at Princeton? It's roughly the same thing as Michigan playing at Robert Morris, or BC playing at Bemidji State. Now the reverse in location can, and does happen, usually to the benefit of the smaller schools.

I don't have to imagine. The arrogance of SU basketball fans around this area rivals that of B1G hockey. Some RPI fans remember when you guys used to travel out to Troy. Obviously I can understand if you would rather see schools with the smaller arenas have the games be held in larger ones, like Sacred Heart does with Harbor Yard, RIT does with BCA, heck Union could probably pull it off with the TUC. It's sad that we have to put up with your refs putting a team in the box for an entire third period because they can't bear to see that Big 10 team even have the possibility of losing a game.

 

[Bale]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

That's fine, but it's kind of a Catch-22, isn't it? Smaller schools want to play the larger schools, regardless of location, because it's good for their program and good for recruiting. Plus, it's usually good for their RPI which can help them at some point.

Bottom line is hockey is just like Football and basketball in many respects. Can you imagine Alabama traveling to Northern Illinois to play a game, or Louisville playing at Princeton? It's roughly the same thing as Michigan playing at Robert Morris, or BC playing at Bemidji State. Now the reverse in location can, and does happen, usually to the benefit of the smaller schools.

Difference with the football and basketball is that Alabama and Louisville pay a hefty price to bring those schools to them. Northern IL and Princeton don't go get slaughtered for free. I will say I think there is going to be a bit more push back against certain programs. I think more and more schools are seeing that unless the larger programs pay close to what the gate would be for a home game at the smaller school. There just isn't really any incentive to travel across the country without a return trip and financial gain later on.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

I don't have to imagine. The arrogance of SU basketball fans around this area rivals that of B1G hockey. Some RPI fans remember when you guys used to travel out to Troy. Obviously I can understand if you would rather see schools with the smaller arenas have the games be held in larger ones, like Sacred Heart does with Harbor Yard, RIT does with BCA, heck Union could probably pull it off with the TUC. It's sad that we have to put up with your refs putting a team in the box for an entire third period because they can't bear to see that Big 10 team even have the possibility of losing a game.

You keep fixating on the Big Ten and the Big Bad West (all 13 of us programs outside the Eastern Time Zone), so I'll repeat. Is this just about which schools will and will not travel to play against the teams you care about? Sure seems that way.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

You keep fixating on the Big Ten and the Big Bad West (all 13 of us programs outside the Eastern Time Zone), so I'll repeat. Is this just about which schools will and will not travel to play against the teams you care about? Sure seems that way.

This is not about teams playing teams that I care about. If it were, I would have called that out specifically. No, this is about schools that blatantly refuse to travel for whatever reason, or require NC series that are insanely IMBA. The fact that the Big Ten schools are some of the worst offenders may upset you, but the fact that none of these other teams are getting home games is just insane. Yes, I am aware that half of the teams playing on any given night are not going to be playing at home. One other thing I understand, especially after the hell that UAH had to go through for the last couple of years, is that the lack of home games causes an attendance problem in general.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

This is not about teams playing teams that I care about. If it were, I would have called that out specifically. No, this is about schools that blatantly refuse to travel for whatever reason, or require NC series that are insanely IMBA. The fact that the Big Ten schools are some of the worst offenders may upset you, but the fact that none of these other teams are getting home games is just insane. Yes, I am aware that half of the teams playing on any given night are not going to be playing at home. One other thing I understand, especially after the hell that UAH had to go through for the last couple of years, is that the lack of home games causes an attendance problem in general.

Yet you keep harping on the Big Ten and keep making generalizations about "the West" when you know full well that there are programs out East that don't travel to some of the smaller schools out West too.

Really doesn't help make your point.

 

[burd]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

West good. East bad.

Why complicate things?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

Yet you keep harping on the Big Ten and keep making generalizations about "the West" when you know full well that there are programs out East that don't travel to some of the smaller schools out West too.

Really doesn't help make your point.

Mostly because of return trips. Not to mention, having barely any NC games to speak of. It's fresh start time, though. Western league now have 8-14 NC games (Alaska only 6, I will actually forgive their desires to play at home because of the exemption that comes with it, thereby being able to schedule two more games). A fix has been put into place, and we shall see what the schedules look like this year.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Mostly because of return trips. Not to mention, having barely any NC games to speak of. It's fresh start time, though. Western league now have 8-14 NC games (Alaska only 6, I will actually forgive their desires to play at home because of the exemption that comes with it, thereby being able to schedule two more games). A fix has been put into place, and we shall see what the schedules look like this year.

Minnesota is going to play a large portion of it's non-conference schedule in-state, for good reason, so don't expect too may apologies for that. There is also a lot of pressure to get UND back on the schedule. The Gophers will be traveling to Notre Dame next season, and then to BC/BU/NU in the upcoming years. I'm sure they will continue to make trips out East (as Don Lucia has said that is a goal now with less conference games).

I'm just saying, it's really hard to take your complaints seriously when you pick and choose which programs to criticize.

 

[Bale]

Re: What teams will be strong in 2013-2014?

Minnesota is going to play a large portion of it's non-conference schedule in-state, for good reason, so don't expect too may apologies for that. There is also a lot of pressure to get UND back on the schedule. The Gophers will be traveling to Notre Dame next season, and then to BC/BU/NU in the upcoming years. I'm sure they will continue to make trips out East (as Don Lucia has said that is a goal now with less conference games).

I'm just saying, it's really hard to take your complaints seriously when you pick and choose which programs to criticize.

In fairness to MN, they have taken a pretty big step in what most would consider a positive direction. They have essentially committed to tying up 8 games each season for the next 4 years with in state teams. Including 2 on the road and giving up 2 homes games for the MN Cup and sharing the revenue. In a few years, they are also committing to play UND again which is 10 non-conference games locally which will be made up of 4 or 6 games at home (depending on the rotation with UND), 2 on neutral ice, and 2 or 4 on the road. MN has made concessions to help out other schools and travel a bit. It just may not be in the way that the eastern schools would like. I don't know what UND, Denver, WI and the like will do though.