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Wednesday Women is back!

Re: Wednesday Women is back!

TonyTheTiger20 said:
I have to say, I think it is very, very, very unlikely that Wisconsin gets the CHA team this year.

EDIT: ARM had my back haha
Click to expand...

So, in the case that Minn doesn't make the tournament, why would it be 'likely' that Ohio State comes to Madison? That isn't 'bus trip' distance. Once you're on a plane, does the distance of the flight matter to the pairings? Why wouldn't it be Clarkson and Colgate host Cornell and St Lawrence (again, assuming no Minnesota, and otherwise taking the current top seven), and then Wisconsin and BC get OSU and the CHA winner? Robert Morris or Mercyhurst, et al, aren't 'bus trip' distance to Boston, so if Wisconsin is still #1, why wouldn't they get the CHA winner?

(See, this is why we needed a Pairwise Powerpoint yesterday!)

Put maybe more briefly: If somebody is flying to Madison, and Robert Morris/Mercyhurst is flying somewhere, why wouldn't they be flying to Madison?
 
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Re: Wednesday Women is back!

robertearle said:
So, in the case that Minn doesn't make the tournament, why would it be 'likely' that Ohio State comes to Madison? That isn't 'bus trip' distance. Once you're on a plane, does the distance of the flight matter to the pairings? Why wouldn't it be Clarkson and Colgate host Cornell and St Lawrence (again, assuming no Minnesota, and otherwise taking the current top seven), and then Wisconsin and BC get OSU and the CHA winner? Robert Morris or Mercyhurst, et al, aren't 'bus trip' distance to Boston, so if Wisconsin is still #1, why wouldn't they get the CHA winner?

(See, this is why we needed a Pairwise Powerpoint yesterday!)

Put maybe more briefly: If somebody is flying to Madison, and Robert Morris/Mercyhurst is flying somewhere, why wouldn't they be flying to Madison?
Click to expand...

Yeah if the Gophers don't make it, it's likely (but not certain) that Ohio State goes to Madison. Ohio State is a flight anywhere, and the other matchups would all be bus trips.

The only exception to this is if Mercyhurst (or Lindenwood, a bus to Madison) wins. Mercyhurst is also a flight anywhere. Robert Morris, on the other hand, is a bus to both Clarkson and Colgate. The others in the CHA are also a bus trip to at least one other top 4 school.
 
Re: Wednesday Women is back!

TonyTheTiger20 said:
I have to say, I think it is very, very, very unlikely that Wisconsin gets the CHA team this year.

EDIT: ARM had my back haha
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but if it's Mercyhurst they fly anyway. That was the rationale two years ago when BC had the top seed, yet played Northeastern, and Mercyhurst played Wisconsin, while Clarkson got Quinnipiac and Minnesota got Princeton.

I don't think OSU would go to Madison; they have to fly anyway, and they'll probably keep them in the East, maybe facing no. 3 seed Clarkson, assuming that the Buckeyes don't lift their PairWise high enough to be a home ice team.
 
Re: Wednesday Women is back!

TonyTheTiger20 said:
Mercyhurst is also a flight anywhere. Robert Morris, on the other hand, is a bus to both Clarkson and Colgate. The others in the CHA are also a bus trip to at least one other top 4 school.
Click to expand...

Isn't Mercyhurst closer to Colgate than Robert Morris is to Colgate? And isn't Robert Morris much farther than 'bus trip' to Clarkson?

Ugh! I hate this. Finishing first should matter; it should come with *some* advantage over finishing fourth. That goes for all the possibilities: a #1 BC should not get stuck having to play a #5 Northeastern (when that happens next year). It isn't fair to the #1 team, and it isn't fair to the #5 team.
 
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Re: Wednesday Women is back!

Arafel said:
I don't think OSU would go to Madison; they have to fly anyway, and they'll probably keep them in the East, maybe facing no. 3 seed Clarkson, assuming that the Buckeyes don't lift their PairWise high enough to be a home ice team.
Click to expand...
OSU would likely go to Madison if the CHA team can be bused somewhere in the East. If the Buckeyes have to fly no matter where they go, then the committee will pick one flight over two and not care about bracket integrity.

robertearle is correct, but bracket integrity hasn't trumped flight reduction since 2006. Now if someone were to win the lottery and bequest a fortune to the NCAA Women's Ice Hockey Tournament with stipulations that must be met ... :)
 
Re: Wednesday Women is back!

robertearle said:
.......
Ugh! I hate this. Finishing first should matter; it should come with *some* advantage over finishing fourth. That goes for all the possibilities: a #1 BC should not get stuck having to play a #5 Northeastern (when that happens next year). It isn't fair to the #1 team, and it isn't fair to the #5 team.
Click to expand...

I don't like it either but if you are the #1 seed on your home ice you should be able to beat any of the #5 thru 8, no matter who you play and if you don't win then you did not deserve to go to the Frozen 4. (Ducks behind the couch awaiting the daggers).
 
Re: Wednesday Women is back!

vicb said:
I don't like it either but if you are the #1 seed on your home ice you should be able to beat any of the #5 thru 8, no matter who you play and if you don't win then you did not deserve to go to the Frozen 4. (Ducks behind the couch awaiting the daggers).
Click to expand...

But the #5 shouldn't have to play #1 to get their shot at a Final Four. They earned a shot at #4.
 
robertearle said:
But the #5 shouldn't have to play #1 to get their shot at a Final Four. They earned a shot at #4.
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Well, of course, but that's the stupid rules we're given :mad:

As for flight/bus -- that's actually set in stone. Anything under 400 miles on the NCAA's online tool is a bus, anything longer is a flight. https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles

Directive #1 is minimize flights, #2 is preserve bracket integrity as long as it doesn't add additional flights.
 
Re: Wednesday Women is back!

robertearle said:
Isn't Mercyhurst closer to Colgate than Robert Morris is to Colgate? And isn't Robert Morris much farther than 'bus trip' to Clarkson?

Ugh! I hate this. Finishing first should matter; it should come with *some* advantage over finishing fourth. That goes for all the possibilities: a #1 BC should not get stuck having to play a #5 Northeastern (when that happens next year). It isn't fair to the #1 team, and it isn't fair to the #5 team.
Click to expand...

Well, remember, one way the Committee gets around this is not seeding teams 5-8. Only the first four are seeded, and their myopic view, which is clearly influenced by "Why do we need to hold a women's tournament in the first place?" is that any seeded team should beat any non-seeded team.
 
Re: Wednesday Women is back!

robertearle said:
But the #5 shouldn't have to play #1 to get their shot at a Final Four. They earned a shot at #4.
Click to expand...

We have dealt with this in the WCHA for years. As much as I hate UND I have to admit they often had teams better than some in the final 4 but had their season ended at Ridder. One time in triple OT. This is crappy but unless and until the NC$$ makes money on the thing it is the curse of women's hockey.
 
Robert Morris to Colgate is 402 miles the slightly faster way but 396 miles the slightly slower way...lol
 
Re: Wednesday Women is back!

KTDC said:
Robert Morris to Colgate is 402 miles the slightly faster way but 396 miles the slightly slower way...lol
Click to expand...
Did you measure rink-to-rink distance? The city-to-city numbers are so close to the 400 mile threshold, it might actually make the difference!

Even more amusing: Since the Pittsburgh airport is quite a ways West of the City, it's possible that the distance by air is over 400 miles, while the distance by bus is less than 400 miles. What then? Half the team has to fly, while the other half of the team has to travel by bus?:eek::D
 
pgb-ohio said:
Did you measure rink-to-rink distance? The city-to-city numbers are so close to the 400 mile threshold, it might actually make the difference!

Even more amusing: Since the Pittsburgh airport is quite a ways West of the City, it's possible that the distance by air is over 400 miles, while the distance by bus is less than 400 miles. What then? Half the team has to fly, while the other half of the team has to travel by bus?:eek::D
Click to expand...

Distance between schools for NCAA purposes is determined using this link:

https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles
 
Re: Wednesday Women is back!

robertearle said:
Robert Morris to Colgate = 403
Robert Morris to Clarkson = 494

So, Robert Morris is a flight to any of the top four.

Mercyhurst to Colgate = 372
Mercyhurst to Clarkson = 282

(Done by 'institution name' radio button)
Click to expand...

You have Mercyhurst to CCT/Colgate bass ackwards

Mercyhurst to Colgate = 282
Mercyhurst to Clarkson = 372
 
Re: Wednesday Women is back!

TonyTheTiger20 said:
Distance between schools for NCAA purposes is determined using this link:

https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles
Click to expand...
Appreciate the link. Since we're stuck with the "stupid rules," having a tool to settle mileage disputes is a good idea.

I went ahead and used the tool to calculate the distance from Robert Morris to Colgate. It gave me the result I expected. That pairing is a flight, but just barely. Mileage was the same as robertearle reports, who presumably used the tool as well.

You kind of missed my drift, however. My real intent was to gently disrespect the process. The actual answer was secondary in this case.
 
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Re: Wednesday Women is back!

TonyTheTiger20 said:
Yeah if the Gophers don't make it, it's likely (but not certain) that Ohio State goes to Madison. Ohio State is a flight anywhere, and the other matchups would all be bus trips.

The only exception to this is if Mercyhurst (or Lindenwood, a bus to Madison) wins. Mercyhurst is also a flight anywhere. Robert Morris, on the other hand, is a bus to both Clarkson and Colgate. The others in the CHA are also a bus trip to at least one other top 4 school.
Click to expand...


TTT, I seem to remember 2 HE teams getting screwed a couple of years back. #1 should have gotten #8 but the geniuses...including the Wisco coach, send #5 to #1 and #2 (wicso I believe...could be wrong) got #8.

#5 actually got more screwed than # 1 did that year. Imagine if OSU had to go to WI? Watt's the reward for WI being #1? they get #5? Worse, how could #5 OSU get that screwed having to play #1?

hopefully Mr. Wisco coach is consistent. I doubt he will be when his team is adversely affected.
 
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