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WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

Shirtless Guy said:
10 games in 5 years pretty much all against BGSU (I have to assume) isn't really a great indicator of anything...
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8 games against BG (5-2-1) and 2 against Bemidji (1-0-1). Probably the only reason they're playing Bowling Green at all is due to their connection with the Mid-American.

Western, to their credit, appears to have played games against most of the conference, albeit in showcases and tournaments.
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

purpleinnebraska said:
Miami is still getting highly regarded recruits and producing NHL players. Miami is also 6-2-2 against the WCHA since the forming of the NCHC, and they've made the NCAA tournament in that period. In other words, they're a better program than almost everyone in the WCHA.
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Miami had a better team than most of the old CCHA before the landscape was shook up too. They were perennial NCAA tournament team from 2006-2013, losing to BU in the 2009 championship game.
 
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Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

I only speak for myself, but I'm perfectly happy with MSU staying in the WCHA.
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

I think everyone understands that Mankato is leaving as soon as they can. If I was them i'd go too.They have reasons that make sense to them. Will they continue to get bids. Sure, but not as many as now, it just stands to reason. And another thing that the NCHC might not have thought about. Let's say they do take both ASU and Mankato. What does that do to their pairwise numbers as a league. In other words, won't it lower them down somewhat and make it so that possibly fewer teams get in than do now? I would think they would regress more towards the mean.
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

Yes and No. MSU wouldn't hurt the NCHC. Average Pairwise rankings since NSIC was formed, MSU 14 (Highest 1, Lowest 28), ASU (3 years) 52 (Highest 44). ASU would hurt the conference, and that's another reason that I don't think the NCHC is interested in ASU.
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

Iwearpurple said:
Yes and No. MSU wouldn't hurt the NCHC. Average Pairwise rankings since NSIC was formed, MSU 14 (Highest 1, Lowest 28), ASU (3 years) 52 (Highest 44). ASU would hurt the conference, and that's another reason that I don't think the NCHC is interested in ASU.
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Its not that easy, it all depends on how they do in NC against whoever they would decide to play after joining and then not completely sucking in the new league.
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

Shirtless Guy said:
Its not that easy, it all depends on how they do in NC against whoever they would decide to play after joining and then not completely sucking in the new league.
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I think that we would certainly hold our own in the NCHC. Our record against NCHC opponents in the last 4 years are: 17-18 (2W-2L), 16-17 (2W-0L), 15-16 (0W-5L), and 14-15 (2W-2L). We certainly don't schedule any patsies for our non-conference schedule. This year, we were 4-2 in non-conference. All 3 of our opponents made the NCAA - Boston University, St. Cloud and UMD. Next year we have play Boston University, North Dakota, Minnesota and 2 opponents in Arizona State's tournament.

I never said that it would be easy for us, but clearly it would be easier to recruit top players if we were in the NCHC rather than the WCHA. Again, no disrespect for the WCHA, but the reality is, it is only the 5th best conference in the country.
 
Iwearpurple said:
I think that we would certainly hold our own in the NCHC. Our record against NCHC opponents in the last 4 years are: 17-18 (2W-2L), 16-17 (2W-0L), 15-16 (0W-5L), and 14-15 (2W-2L). We certainly don't schedule any patsies for our non-conference schedule. This year, we were 4-2 in non-conference. All 3 of our opponents made the NCAA - Boston University, St. Cloud and UMD. Next year we have play Boston University, North Dakota, Minnesota and 2 opponents in Arizona State's tournament.

I never said that it would be easy for us, but clearly it would be easier to recruit top players if we were in the NCHC rather than the WCHA. Again, no disrespect for the WCHA, but the reality is, it is only the 5th best conference in the country.
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Which is, IMHO, the biggest key. Getting even more talent in Mankato is the best way to stop the streak of first round NCAA losses, and bringing better talent in is easier as an NCHC member, particularly when recruiting MN is key to your program’s success.
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

MavHockey14 said:
Which is, IMHO, the biggest key. Getting even more talent in Mankato is the best way to stop the streak of first round NCAA losses, and bringing better talent in is easier as an NCHC member, particularly when recruiting MN is key to your program’s success.
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Im sorry, but most of this just feels like a giant overreaction to some bad luck in the NCAAs.
 
Shirtless Guy said:
Im sorry, but most of this just feels like a giant overreaction to some bad luck in the NCAAs.
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I guess I set the bar at what UMD and SCSU do and believe that Minnesota State should be able to be on par with them. The amount of NHL picks playing in the NCHC is 35, compared to 8 in the WCHA this year, as I previously mentioned. (With the WCHA having 2 more teams.)

St. Cloud State has 4 draft picks, 3 from Minnesota.

Minnesota Duluth has 5 draft picks, 5 from Minnesota.

Minnesota State has 1 draft pick, 1 from Minnesota.

When recruiting those types of players, it’s an easier sell to say you’re going to play in a league littered with draft picks, etc. compared to one where a guy here or there is drafted in your league.

Yes the WCHA, and Minnesota State, has guys like Daniel Brickley who are coveted NHL free agrents, but the NCHC has guys like that as well, and those guys are in addition to the NHL draft picks, etc.

Not to mention, the NCHC has consistently been the top conference, or in the top 2 conferences in the country. In addition to a league with more talent, do you want to play where there’s a track record of consistent success in non conference play vs. the majority of the country and every team in the league is a top half of D1 team, or in a league where half the teams are in the bottom 15 of NCAA teams?

All this said, these are the questions recruits considering UMD and MSU, or SCSU and MSU, are weighing. To take the next step, I think it’s imperative to start bringing in that kind of talent, particularly when a lot of these kids are within easy driving distance of the campus in Mankato.
 
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Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

MavHockey14 said:
I guess I set the bar at what UMD and SCSU do and believe that Minnesota State should be able to be on par with them. The amount of NHL picks playing in the NCHC is 35, compared to 8 in the WCHA this year, as I previously mentioned. (With the WCHA having 2 more teams.)

St. Cloud State has 4 draft picks, 3 from Minnesota.

Minnesota Duluth has 5 draft picks, 5 from Minnesota.

Minnesota State has 1 draft pick, 1 from Minnesota.

When recruiting those types of players, it’s an easier sell to say you’re going to play in a league littered with draft picks, etc. compared to own where a guy here or there is drafted in your league.

Yes the WCHA, and Minnesota State, has guys like Daniel Brickley who are coveted NHL free agrents, but the NCHC has guys like that as well, and those guys are in addition to the NHL draft picks, etc.

Not to mention, the NCHC has consistently been the top conference, or in the top 2 conferences in the country, consistently. In addition to a league with more talent, do you want to play where there’s a track record of consistent success in non conference play vs. the majority of the country, or in a league where half the teams are in the bottom 15 of NCAA teams?

All this said, these are the questions recruits considering UMD and MSU, or SCSU and MSU, are weighing, particularly kids that are within easy driving distance of the campus in Mankato.
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There is little doubt that the NCHC top to bottom is a better league and I understand wanting to be with UMD, SCSU, UND but I also like winning. MSU seems even less able to handle falling into mediocrity than MTU. NCHC is a meat grinder and as much as I would like to know just how good MTU is, I'm quite happy getting home Ice regularly and making the NCAA 3 of 4 years...It might be a little more difficult to make the NCAAs out of the WCHA, but as long as a team focuses on themselves, I don't see any reason the WCHA can't win another title, just need to find a way to get over the hump in the NCAAs...
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

I feel quite confident that we can make it into the tournament on our record, whether we are in the WCHA or the NCHC. And based on the fact that in the 3 of 5 last years, we were in the tournament whether or not we won our league championship, based on our Pairwise.

Secondly, it is clear that is where Coach Hastings wants to be, and I believe the majority of our fans would rather be. We have done a good job of increasing our attendance, but that is due to having a team with a winning record. But I feel it would be great to have to sell SRO tickets for many of our home games.
 
bigblue_dl said:
There is a better chance that moving to the NCHC turns Mankato into a doormat, ala Miami, than there is that the move turns them into a title contender. In fact, I'd say it is a much, much better chance.
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Miami, CC, and Western are learning the harsh lesson that when there is no minnow for you to pick on, you are the minnow.
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

Jimjamesak said:
Miami, CC, and Western are learning the harsh lesson that when there is no minnow for you to pick on, you are the minnow.
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And if you read their message boards (Miami State and Western), half their posters are screaming for their coaches heads while a quarter are screaming to get out of the Nachos and in with us.

I think being in Minnesota gives Mankato an edge over those three in recruiting and travel. However, I can't ever see a situation where Miami State and Western ever agree to another Minnesota based team getting in without some sort of concessions (whatever they may be). If Mankato does get in, it'll be over K'zoo's and Oxford's dead bodies.
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

TalonsUpPuckDown said:
And if you read their message boards (Miami State and Western), half their posters are screaming for their coaches heads while a quarter are screaming to get out of the Nachos and in with us.

I think being in Minnesota gives Mankato an edge over those three in recruiting and travel. However, I can't ever see a situation where Miami State and Western ever agree to another Minnesota based team getting in without some sort of concessions (whatever they may be). If Mankato does get in, it'll be over K'zoo's and Oxford's dead bodies.
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it makes too much sense to swap BSU and MSU for Miami and WMU...but I'm not sure WMU and Miami can swallow their pride on that...I'd hate it personally because the closest games would be in Houghton for me...granted that would probably mean more NC games with NCHC since they would have no shorter road trips than MTU other than UW and Minny.
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

Shirtless Guy said:
it makes too much sense to swap BSU and MSU for Miami and WMU...but I'm not sure WMU and Miami can swallow their pride on that...I'd hate it personally because the closest games would be in Houghton for me...granted that would probably mean more NC games with NCHC since they would have no shorter road trips than MTU other than UW and Minny.
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Which means you would end up with the following:

Nacho =oWCHA - (B1G + Tech + UAA)
nWCHA = CCHA + Tech + UAA + UAH - B1G

Seems like a lot of hullabaloo for very little gain. Would have saved everyone time and energy if oWCHA went to Tech and UAA and said GTFOOH. We'd be right where you propose we should be. But then we'd have nothing to debate and the last 5 years would have been boring.
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

Well to me Mankato will be a bit above omaha. I still say they would make the tournament a good bit ,but not as often as now. I think it might make it marginally better to get players but only marginally.I think the biggest plus for them is less travel. However, having said that, they only get in with ASU if you ask me, and that means trips to Michigan, Ohio, Denver and Phoenix. Plus with so many teams you won't get 4 games vs all the in state teams every year. So suddenly there will be almost as much travel and maybe fewer in state games than you want.
I didn't know that about the two schools near BG. I doubt Miami is happy with their decision to jump. And i'm sure WMU is questioning it.
It's one thing to go when you like who you are with and get along and work together. But when the others in your group are arrogant jerks, and basically shove it up you at every opportunity, it makes it more difficult to swallow.I'm looking at you Denver.
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

Jimjamesak said:
Miami, CC, and Western are learning the harsh lesson that when there is no minnow for you to pick on, you are the minnow.
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It's as if they all went into this thinking, "Somebody's got to finish last, but it won't be me."
 
Re: WCHA Season Thread 2017-18: In Which We Try For Two Bids

WCHA has the MacNaughton, hence, will always be cooler than everyone but the NHL.
 
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