Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

[Puck Swami]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

I think the new arena will really upgrade the image of the sport at Notre Dame. They will draw.

 

[IrishHockeyFan]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

After their seeing the Sat. night game against NMU, I don't know if this is the case.... I know it's just a single game, but many of the fans there seemed to be relatively new to the hockey thing... Yea, they were at the game, but they seemed somewhat uninterested... Right now they draw 2700, according to USCHO... Is there really that much more growth out there for a team that might not stay on a national level?

I understand the "Football" name, but I really don't know if there is much more room for hockey to grow if ND stumbles on the national level in the next few years... I don't see them suddenly drawing 6,000 people per game just because a new arena is built... I really feel that there is still a lot of bandwagon type of fans following ND, and if they don't produce on a national level, those fans are gone...

You're making this statement based on one game, a game where we spent 40-50 minutes chasing our tails around, eventually trailing 3-0, and a game where our students had to choose between a hockey game and a men's basketball game against Gonzaga going on next door. And of course the fans seemed "disinterested" when a .500 team pushes us around for most of the night. I was in Yost a couple of years ago when Notre Dame manhandled them 7-3. Place was pretty quiet and some of the fans there seemed uninterested, but I don't think anyone is really going to claim a Michigan crowd is uninterested or made up of fans who don't know the game. Notre Dame has developed a better than average base of fans and as long as the program is competitive it will draw well in the new building. I'm not sure who you were around, but there are long time, diehard fans in all sections of the building who know the game and have been around it for 10, 20, or 30 years. Or in my case nearly 40.

No one draws well consistently if the program is uncompetitive. Heck, look at Michigan State. Up until 5 or 6 years ago 6000+ was the typical crowd. A couple of seasons where expectations fail to be met and now they can't get the place 2/3 full most nights.

Some years ago after a Final Four and a national championship some people wondered if our women's basketball team could keep drawing well. Last Saturday, on a day with a men's basketball game AND the hockey game, the women drew 8500 for a game against a mediocre Creighton team.

All "name brand" schools (ND, Texas, UM, Duke) have bandwagon fans. Its how they can draw 100,000 people to their stadiums every game. Notre Dame is no different. We do draw 2700 every game, because that's what the building will hold. Conservative estimates say we could triple the student turnout if we had the space, and that's nearly another 1000 people right there. And after 6 years does anyone need any more proof that Jeff Jackson has actually BUILT a program here?

 

[pinch]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

Lots of talk of the commitment that Notre Dame and Miami have made and that they will want/ need to be part of a better league etc than a revamped CCHA.... Miami certainly built a nice rink and is on a steady run.... but the Notre Dame investment is really Jeff Jackson--- the University isn't paying for that rink correct?

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

Lots of talk of the commitment that Notre Dame and Miami have made and that they will want/ need to be part of a better league etc than a revamped CCHA.... Miami certainly built a nice rink and is on a steady run.... but the Notre Dame investment is really Jeff Jackson--- the University isn't paying for that rink correct?

This is a Wall Street Journal article which is not concerned with poorly named teams or leagues, or even transitory won-lost records.
Follow the money. It will show you where college hockey is going.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

This is a Wall Street Journal article which is not concerned with poorly named teams or leagues, or even transitory won-lost records.
Follow the money. It will show you where college hockey is going.

China?

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

China?

No. Space. As is obvious, money powers college hockey programs to build larger and larger stadiums. Osorojo has shrewdly pointed this out. Based on that conclusion, stadiums will only grow larger and larger until ultimately a stadium is built so tall that it reaches space. As a result, we should start recruiting aliens and Martians, and others that are accustomed to being/playing in space. Many believe that Ralph Engelstad passed away, but in reality, he is a part of a super-secret program to find hockey players in space.

I also believe this is where Osorojo came from. Only a true space being would have had knowledge of this super-secret plan.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

No. Space. As is obvious, money powers college hockey programs to build larger and larger stadiums. Osorojo has shrewdly pointed this out. Based on that conclusion, stadiums will only grow larger and larger until ultimately a stadium is built so tall that it reaches space. As a result, we should start recruiting aliens and Martians, and others that are accustomed to being/playing in space. Many believe that Ralph Engelstad passed away, but in reality, he is a part of a super-secret program to find hockey players in space.

I also believe this is where Osorojo came from. Only a true space being would have had knowledge of this super-secret plan.

DI college football has evolved into games played in large, domed, and publicly funded stadiums. Same thing for DI basketball. Check and see. In the case of DI hockey, as in other sports, "the strong" are the teams with the biggest stadiums and the biggest profits. They can afford the best players, regardless of their academic abilities.

As is always the case in a capitalist enterprise, only the strong survive. This is particularly true when large capital outlays are involved, as is patently the case in conducting an ice hockey program. Small school basketball programs will continue to have moments of glory, but small school hockey programs are destined for obscurity. Ask the Wall Street Journal.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

DI college football has evolved into games played in large, domed, and publicly funded stadiums. Same thing for DI basketball. Check and see. In the case of DI hockey, as in other sports, "the strong" are the teams with the biggest stadiums and the biggest profits. They can afford the best players, regardless of their academic abilities.

As is always the case in a capitalist enterprise, only the strong survive. This is particularly true when large capital outlays are involved, as is patently the case in conducting an ice hockey program. Small school basketball programs will continue to have moments of glory, but small school hockey programs are destined for obscurity. Ask the Wall Street Journal.

Only 3 FBS teams playing "domed" indoor stadiums: Tulane, Syracuse, and Idaho. Get your your facts straight if you expect to ever get anything resembling credibility around here.

 

[komey1]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

Only 3 FBS teams playing "domed" indoor stadiums: Tulane, Syracuse, and Idaho. Get your your facts straight if you expect to ever get anything resembling credibility around here.

That's a tall order.

 

[IrishHockeyFan]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

Lots of talk of the commitment that Notre Dame and Miami have made and that they will want/ need to be part of a better league etc than a revamped CCHA.... Miami certainly built a nice rink and is on a steady run.... but the Notre Dame investment is really Jeff Jackson--- the University isn't paying for that rink correct?

The rink was paid for by donations from interested alums and other friends of the program. I'm hoping for a suitable location for naming rights, perhaps the IHF Urinal...

 

[NMU8405]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

Same thing for DI basketball. Check and see.

Can you name any D1 Basketball programs that play outdoors? Any D2 or D3 for that matter?

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

Only 3 FBS teams playing "domed" indoor stadiums: Tulane, Syracuse, and Idaho. Get your your facts straight if you expect to ever get anything resembling credibility around here.

Programs with large venues are more successful than programs in little venues. The great majority of large arenas and stadiums are built with public money. The programs with the biggest budgets are generally the most successful; Yankee baseball and Badger hockey, for example. Size matters. Money matters even more. Denial doesn't matter at all. Take away one generous donation and where would Sioux hockey be today?
Tell us again why money doesn't matter.

 

[IrishHockeyFan]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

Programs with large venues are more successful than programs in little venues. The great majority of large arenas and stadiums are built with public money. The programs with the biggest budgets are generally the most successful; Yankee baseball and Badger hockey, for example. Size matters. Money matters even more. Denial doesn't matter at all. Take away one generous donation and where would Sioux hockey be?
Tell us again why money doesn't matter.

Yeah, North Dakota never won anything before the Ralph was built except for about 7 lousy NCAA championships. Like THOSE matter. But size certainly does matter. I lost count of how many World Series championships the Cleveland Indians won playing in 80,000 seat Municipal Stadium.

 

[komey1]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

Ohio State and UNO have the highest capacity in DI - don't recall seeing them in the NCAAs last year. They certainly aren't teams you see mentioned as championship contenders.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

They can afford the best players, regardless of their academic abilities.

Wait, when did Cam Newton start playing hockey?

Arena size, attendance, and revenue are certainly correlated with on-ice success, but which is the cause and which is the effect?

 

[Dirty]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

Take away one generous donation and where would Sioux hockey be today?

Grand Forks, ND.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

Grand Forks, ND.

Best answer hands down.

The "cause or effect" question is tougher. If building big stadiums is the effect of having a successful sports program then many professional team corporations, a bunch of colleges, and a a slew of municipalities have it backward and should have waited to build.
The previous example of Cleveland Municipal Stadium comes to mind, and the longevity of the Red Sox venue is explained.

 

[komey1]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

The "cause or effect" question is tougher. If building big stadiums is the effect of having a successful sports program then many professional team corporations, a bunch of colleges, and a a slew of municipalities have it backward and should have waited to build.
The previous example of Cleveland Municipal Stadium comes to mind, and the longevity of the Red Sox venue is explained.

Stadiums that get built by taxpayer dollars are often done so because the principal owner threatens to move otherwise in pro sports. Before the Tampa Bay Rays came into existance, several owners threatened to move their teams to St. Petersberg unless the cities gave them money for a new stadium.

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

I'd really like to know what 5 schools comprise Paul Kelly's list

"This unprecedented game comes at a time when the sport is already expanding beyond its traditional boundaries. Paul Kelly, the president of College Hockey Inc., the year-old marketing arm of NCAA hockey, estimated that up to five more schools may upgrade their club-hockey teams to varsity status in the next few years."

I'm thinking since he's trying to raise the profile of NCAA hockey and communicate w/NHL that Lindenwood is not a team he'd be including in this list. He seems to want to make a bigger splash than that. His statements have been vague but I'm guessing there are 2 Big 10 teams in that mix. the rest I couldn't guess. I'd never heard of Iowa State/Oklahoma initiating any moves to D1 hockey or desiring that.

Syracuse is talked up a lot but apparently they're not saying anything

Lindenwood is not the most well known but part of that is because it has been in the NAIA. Now with the school moving to the NCAA DII and rumors are eventually 10-15 years DI FCS the exposure should be expanded. Also they have been accepted into the MIAA, one of the most well respected NCAA DII conference (If that sounds familiar UNO plays in the MIAA)

Lindenwood has expanded athletic facilities and academic ones, and continues to grow, it's pushing 15,000 students with about 8,000 traditional students and the rest in adult/distant learning in the regional campuses and also wants to expand to 15,000-20,000 traditional students.

LU likes to build things and they've stated before that to move to NCAA hockey they would build a 5,000 seat ice arena on campus. But that was a few years ago and since then the UHL minor league moved out of St. Charles leaving the city of St. Charles with an empty Family Arena within a few miles from the main campus. It's newish and seats 9,000. They purchased an ice arena about 15 mins from the main campus for the ice hockey programs at the NAIA/ACHA level and it's 1,000 seat capacity is fine for women's hockey, which they're already moving to the NCAA.

I suspect within a year or two we’ll hear of the men’s program moving to the NCAA and either LU taking control of the Family Arena or building a new 5,000 seat arena on campus. And I suspect after they do move to the NCAA they’ll eventually be more of a Miami (OH) Denver, type program, a school with a well known within college hockey but not overall sports, combined with a winning tradition and good academics.

I'm not sure LU is on Paul Kelly's list, because his list includes team's he's been trying to convince to add hockey, not ones that probably will on their own. I suspect they are bigger named schools with at least 1-2 being Big Ten and probably another 1-2 being Big East schools. Hopefully URI and Navy are on that list, both would be welcome additions to NCAA Hockey. URI and Navy already have Atlantic Hockey-like facilities.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Re: Wall Street Journal Article About College Hockey

Good read...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-against-chl-in-border-battle/article1905238/