Wacky Bloomberg

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Wacky Bloomberg

So the new mayor claims to be the protector of the poor and downtrodden, he harps on his "tale of two cities" theme...

What do minorities want more than anything else?

A good education for their children!


Who is threatening to shut down schools that demonstrably provide excellent results for minority children?


Why, the new mayor.


It was amusing to see the governor call him out on this "inconsistency" publicly. There were two rallies in Albany earlier this week. One attended by over ten thousand parents and students, was in favor of charter schools. The governor spoke there and publicly expressed strong, unequivocable support for charter schools, including an offer to find state funding*.

The other, one thousand five hundred union members, wanting higher NYC taxes to fund pre-K even though the governor already promised funding for statewide pre-K without higher taxes.







* Even though no public school pays rent to use the school building, the mayor wants charter schools to pay rent when they use city buildings, even though charters serve mostly minorities. Go figure.

Schools are a problem. The biggest problem is somehow we've created a situation where the best school for our kids isn't in the neighborhood anymore. People love to solve the problem of charter this and voucher that but that really doesn't solve the problem of getting all the kids to a school that isn't in their neighborhood.

There are costs associated with that I hope you agree.

And instead of being able to fix the neighborhood school we move further and further down the path of everyone having to go to a school far far away. People think that's a great thing. I don't.

Either way I'm getting to the point (last kid has 3+ years of High School left) where I just won't give a crap anymore. You want vouchers fine. You want unionless teachers fine. You want to destroy the concept of neighborhood schools (my city just did that in their city by busing kids all over the place to disperse the minority population which had nothing to do with Charter or choice) fine.

I don't care anymore.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Wacky Bloomberg

Schools are a problem. The biggest problem is somehow we've created a situation where the best school for our kids isn't in the neighborhood anymore. People love to solve the problem of charter this and voucher that but that really doesn't solve the problem of getting all the kids to a school that isn't in their neighborhood.

There are costs associated with that I hope you agree.

And instead of being able to fix the neighborhood school we move further and further down the path of everyone having to go to a school far far away. People think that's a great thing. I don't.

Either way I'm getting to the point (last kid has 3+ years of High School left) where I just won't give a crap anymore. You want vouchers fine. You want unionless teachers fine. You want to destroy the concept of neighborhood schools (my city just did that in their city by busing kids all over the place to disperse the minority population which had nothing to do with Charter or choice) fine.

I don't care anymore.

As someone who went to a private school for a few years over 30 miles from where I lived because of the level of education and decided to go to the local school come 9th grade (where my graduating class of two towns was 31), I am understanding of the issues. The concept of the charter schools is very much capitalistic; go where you get the most bang for your buck. For years in Northern NY, parochial schools under the Diocese of Ogdensburg relaxed the religious overtones at the elementary and middle school levels (although it still existed) in order to offer an alternative to the severely lacking public education, and made out very well. Sadly, the union does create a lot of issues with the public system in this state because after three years, there is no incentive (aside from personal satisfaction) to continue to work hard because you cannot be released from your job on the basis of merit.

The state has tried to encourage use of the public system and weed out the charters, though, through this little thing called the Board of Regents. They create standardized final exams for core subjects and foreign language electives. Therefore, why travel when your curriculum will be the same? This is exactly why I chose as I did in 9th grade, also because the physical travel does take its toll on you, and is a reason why I am against the busing of kids to different districts. By the way, the federal Department of Education has come to understand this reasoning as well, through the adoption of Common Core and its attempt to attach it to the mandates of compulsory education.

 

[jmh]

Re: Wacky Bloomberg

Schools are a problem. The biggest problem is somehow we've created a situation where the best school for our kids isn't in the neighborhood anymore. People love to solve the problem of charter this and voucher that but that really doesn't solve the problem of getting all the kids to a school that isn't in their neighborhood.

There are costs associated with that I hope you agree.

The problem, as it seems to be put by charter school opponents here in NYC, is that the charter schools accomplish these "demonstrably... excellent results" through weeding out weaker students in a manner that would be impermissible for public schools, and that these demonstrably better results are therefore based on a skewed playing field. Realistically, the issue of the teachers union is a strong behind-the-scenes motivator as well.

The other, one thousand five hundred union members, wanting higher NYC taxes to fund pre-K even though the governor already promised funding for statewide pre-K without higher taxes.

Again, the DINO governor's promise is worthless unless and until he identifies where he thinks the money for statewide pre-K is going to come from. What is he going to cut, if the funding is going to come without higher taxes? Everyone loves to hear the government say "you're going to get X and you're not going to have to pay for it". So either he's going to cut something else, but he hasn't identified what because he's pandering in an election year and doesn't want to tell anyone anything they won't want to hear, or he's going to borrow to pay for it (like he is with poorly-thought-out vanity bridge project) and kick the can down the years to future New Yorkers. At least De Blasio is being honest about raising money to pay for something he wants to pay for. Cuomo is full of crap.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wacky Bloomberg

The problem, as it seems to be put by charter school opponents here in NYC, is that the charter schools accomplish these "demonstrably... excellent results" through weeding out weaker students in a manner that would be impermissible for public schools,

said claims which are always debunked. That's a myth. Show me one reputable study that supports your assertion. The data from multiple controlled studies show otherwise.

At least De Blasio is being honest about raising money to pay for something he wants to pay for.

There is a huge difference between "raising money" and "raising tax rates." De Blamio won't be able to raise anywhere near the money he thinks. NY state already keeps losing moderate-income residents year after year, as they migrate to NC and FL and similar places. Every single time rax rates are increased, the expected revenue never materializes, because people change their behavior to avoid the tax. Alex Rodriguez' suspension alone will cost NYC about $700,000 in city income tax revenue. The big investment banks keep cutting staff; more mid-size brokerage firms are following their clients and leaving the city to relocate to Florida. There won't be the revenue you expect if tax rates are increased.


Finally, minority parents in the city are clamoring for charters. the waiting lists are extensive. they are all dupes, right?

are you on the teachers' union payroll as a spokesperson or something?

 

[jmh]

Re: Wacky Bloomberg

said claims which are always debunked. That's a myth. Show me one reputable study that supports your assertion. The data from multiple controlled studies show otherwise.

It's not my assertion. I'm just saying that that's what charter school opponents are saying; I haven't read enough into it to know what the studies say, though I'd be curious to see the ones that you mention.

There is a huge difference between "raising money" and "raising tax rates." De Blamio won't be able to raise anywhere near the money he thinks. NY state already keeps losing moderate-income residents year after year, as they migrate to NC and FL and similar places. Every single time rax rates are increased, the expected revenue never materializes, because people change their behavior to avoid the tax. Alex Rodriguez' suspension alone will cost NYC about $700,000 in city income tax revenue. The big investment banks keep cutting staff; more mid-size brokerage firms are following their clients and leaving the city to relocate to Florida. There won't be the revenue you expect if tax rates are increased.

Finally, minority parents in the city are clamoring for charters. the waiting lists are extensive. they are all dupes, right?

are you on the teachers' union payroll as a spokesperson or something?

I've heard of the Laffer Curve, and I'm aware that higher tax rates don't always translate to higher revenues. This doesn't in any way address the fact that you're claiming "the governor already promised funding for statewide pre-K without higher taxes" but that he hasn't given any detail because he's engaging in standard election year politics of promising something for nothing. Maybe De Blasio's proposed tax increase won't result in the revenue he's claiming it will, but it's still a better bet to raise at least some money than Cuomo's unsupported "I'll find the money somewhere" promise.

Based on this discussion, it seems just as likely that you're on the payroll of Cuomo's re-election campaign as it is that I'm on the payroll of the UFT. Which I'm not. I think the merits of universal pre-K are debatable and both of them are skipping that debate on the merits because both of them want the UFT's votes (or, if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, because both of them think pre-K is worthwhile). I just think De Blasio is more honest about how he thinks it should be paid for. He may be wrong, but he's honest and Cuomo is obfuscating.

The A-Rod thing is a tabloid-worth irrelevant red herring because it has nothing to do with him or anyone "changing behavior to avoid taxation."

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wacky Bloomberg

Cuomo is full of crap.

Does this mean you'll be supporting Astorino for Governor then?

What is he going to cut, if the funding is going to come without higher taxes?

All he needs to do is announce that his 18-month "study" of hydraulic fracturing has been completed, and the scientific evidence and experience of Pennsylvania (heavily Democrat state, btw) demonstrate that it is acceptably safe, and so he will allow it. If De Blasio really, truly wanted a secure and reliable revenue stream to fund pre-K, he'd be agitating for hydraulic fracturing as well. He's just a poseur, saying one thing and doing another....just like any other career politician. Tell the people what you think they want to hear while you merrily along doing whatever you feel like, no matter how vast the inconsistency between your words and your behavior.


BTW, I do agree with you that Cuomo's actions seem a lot more like election-year posturing than any real commitment. It looks like he is trying to isolate De Blasio on the fringe so that Cuomo looks reasonable by comparison. He can then raise gobs of money from NY City rich folk by pretending to be their protector against the dangerous Sandinista-lite mayor.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wacky Bloomberg

The A-Rod thing is relevant ...because[?]

because it shows how dangerous it is to rely on "the rich" for 40% of your budget. It was merely presented to show how ONE PERSON makes such a substantial difference.

Now, turn that into several hundred people, and your budget is wildly unstable ($700,000 x 200 = $140 million!)...as we've already seen from the down years in the stock market. Wall St. has a bad year, bonuses are down, the city budget immediately goes into a huge deficit. That is about as unreliable as you can get.