PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Don't count out your chances in the Friday night game against UNH! I'm 1-0-1 at UVM games and ill be there that night!
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Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
- Thread starter UVM Cat in Texas
- Start date
Don't count out your chances in the Friday night game against UNH! I'm 1-0-1 at UVM games and ill be there that night!
jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
Here's the deal from my perspective,
Sneddon is under contract until Dec 31, 2014. He has basically two more full seasons.
Sneddon is only the 3rd coach in UVM (at least for D1) history.
Gilligan had many more seasons that are worse then the current spell Sneddon has going and was never fired.
Sneddon has sent UVM to the NCAA's twice and has had at least 8 players sign NHL contracts.
Considering those points it is almost assuredly UVM does not fire him anytime in the next few years. As much as I think his time has come I just don't see it happening. However... there is one key point that may prove me wrong and that would be the plans for the new arena. The simple fact is this, attendance is down, ticket sales are down, and season tickets (once impossible to get) are not in demand. The University wants to build a new arena and certainly should, however a new arena with an extra 2000-2500 seats is going to necessitate better attendance by the fans, which translates into ON ICE RESULTS. The University has been talking about the new arena and I do believe we will be seeing one relatively soon, they are going to want the team playing well and tickets in demand when that happens. It maybe they decide to get a new coach in and the rebuilding started to generate interest while the arena is in the works. Similar to hiring Sneddon prior to the switch to HE gave him some time to get the team going before jumping into a new league.
If I were a betting man, I'd still put my money on Sneddon staying on, but there is a shot he goes...
Here's the deal from my perspective,
Sneddon is under contract until Dec 31, 2014. He has basically two more full seasons.
Sneddon is only the 3rd coach in UVM (at least for D1) history.
Gilligan had many more seasons that are worse then the current spell Sneddon has going and was never fired.
Sneddon has sent UVM to the NCAA's twice and has had at least 8 players sign NHL contracts.
Considering those points it is almost assuredly UVM does not fire him anytime in the next few years. As much as I think his time has come I just don't see it happening. However... there is one key point that may prove me wrong and that would be the plans for the new arena. The simple fact is this, attendance is down, ticket sales are down, and season tickets (once impossible to get) are not in demand. The University wants to build a new arena and certainly should, however a new arena with an extra 2000-2500 seats is going to necessitate better attendance by the fans, which translates into ON ICE RESULTS. The University has been talking about the new arena and I do believe we will be seeing one relatively soon, they are going to want the team playing well and tickets in demand when that happens. It maybe they decide to get a new coach in and the rebuilding started to generate interest while the arena is in the works. Similar to hiring Sneddon prior to the switch to HE gave him some time to get the team going before jumping into a new league.
If I were a betting man, I'd still put my money on Sneddon staying on, but there is a shot he goes...
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
Not according to my math.
Gilligan UVM Career Totals: 279 289 .491 (Including the post hazing scandal years that were understandably dismal)
Sneddon: UVM Career Totals: 143 169 .458
Not only that moving to Hockey East was supposed to upgrade the program. Look at Sneddon's record at Union as well. It steadily goes downhill.
Not according to my math.
Gilligan UVM Career Totals: 279 289 .491 (Including the post hazing scandal years that were understandably dismal)
Sneddon: UVM Career Totals: 143 169 .458
Not only that moving to Hockey East was supposed to upgrade the program. Look at Sneddon's record at Union as well. It steadily goes downhill.
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
I'm not sure what happened during the Gilligan tenure is relevant. There was a different AD, administration, and philosophy in place back then. UVM coaches were dismally underpaid (Tom Brennan used to say he made more money from his radio show than from coaching the men's basketball team) and were not given the tools and resources needed to consistently succeed. Most teams didn't get the full complement of scholarships allowed by the NCAA (I’m unsure if that was the case for hockey or not). Anyway, given that the school did not give the coaches what they needed to win consistently they couldn't, or wouldn't, fire them for losing.
Things are different now. UVM coaches are compensated more competitively (although still less than their peers) and given more of the resources needed to succeed than they did in the 10+ years ago. I would think with that comes more accountability for winning and the possibility of being fired for constantly losing.
No matter how much I agree with what has been posted, and how desperately I want to see the team start to win, I simply can't hope for a person to be fired. Losing a job is a terrible thing for a person and his/her family to have to go through. That being said I will be very surprised if Sneddon is the coach next season.
I'm not sure what happened during the Gilligan tenure is relevant. There was a different AD, administration, and philosophy in place back then. UVM coaches were dismally underpaid (Tom Brennan used to say he made more money from his radio show than from coaching the men's basketball team) and were not given the tools and resources needed to consistently succeed. Most teams didn't get the full complement of scholarships allowed by the NCAA (I’m unsure if that was the case for hockey or not). Anyway, given that the school did not give the coaches what they needed to win consistently they couldn't, or wouldn't, fire them for losing.
Things are different now. UVM coaches are compensated more competitively (although still less than their peers) and given more of the resources needed to succeed than they did in the 10+ years ago. I would think with that comes more accountability for winning and the possibility of being fired for constantly losing.
No matter how much I agree with what has been posted, and how desperately I want to see the team start to win, I simply can't hope for a person to be fired. Losing a job is a terrible thing for a person and his/her family to have to go through. That being said I will be very surprised if Sneddon is the coach next season.
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
For reference at comparable institutions:
Kevin Sneddon: $200,000
Dick Umile: $224,000
Tim Whitehead: $190,000
For reference at comparable institutions:
Kevin Sneddon: $200,000
Dick Umile: $224,000
Tim Whitehead: $190,000
jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
With all due respect your math is wrong. Career totals are much different then season totals. Regardless, the point was Gilligan had at different points the bottom dweller in the ECAC. Sneddon has UVM heading there as well, Gilligan didn't get fired, I doubt that Sneddon gets fired either. Maybe his contract isn't renewed, but that's a few years away.
With all due respect your math is wrong. Career totals are much different then season totals. Regardless, the point was Gilligan had at different points the bottom dweller in the ECAC. Sneddon has UVM heading there as well, Gilligan didn't get fired, I doubt that Sneddon gets fired either. Maybe his contract isn't renewed, but that's a few years away.
jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
You have a point about the differences between Gilligans tenure and Sneddon's. My point was that UVM has been consistently loyal to their coaches...
You have a point about the differences between Gilligans tenure and Sneddon's. My point was that UVM has been consistently loyal to their coaches...
jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
This brings up a good point, Maine won't buy out Timmay's contract of 190K after years and years of mediocre play. Is UVM really going to buy out two remaining season's on Sneddon's contract...especially while trying to raise funds for a new arena. That would cause a bit of a **** storm to spend $300-400K extra to get rid of Sneddon while crying too poor to build a new arena.
I'm all for getting someone new to reboot the program. I just don't believe it will happen.
This brings up a good point, Maine won't buy out Timmay's contract of 190K after years and years of mediocre play. Is UVM really going to buy out two remaining season's on Sneddon's contract...especially while trying to raise funds for a new arena. That would cause a bit of a **** storm to spend $300-400K extra to get rid of Sneddon while crying too poor to build a new arena.
I'm all for getting someone new to reboot the program. I just don't believe it will happen.
hckygoalie31
Registered User
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
Willingly give up 200k? I know from experience the devil's lettuce up at groovy uvy is strong but what pipe are you hitting?
Willingly give up 200k? I know from experience the devil's lettuce up at groovy uvy is strong but what pipe are you hitting?
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
If this season goes where it looks like its going, this will be the 3rd straight season with single digit wins. There aren't many situations where a coach will survive that. 1-2 seasons like that can be explained as rebuilding or maybe having some bad luck with recruiting or injuries, but 3 in a row has to get the AD wondering if the coach has lost the confidence of the players and do you risk letting the ship sink deeper. Even with the hazing incident Gilligan never had 3 seasons in a row this bad.
That being said, the problems with the program are deeper than just Sneddon and signs of the program slipping have been ignored by the admin for too long. In certain ways it feels to me that UVM runs all their athletic programs like its 1950 - you hire a coach with a handshake and step back & let them run things until they want to retire. I admire that way of doing things when it works, but D-1 athletics is a cut-throat business these days (esp. in HE) and the school has to make the commitment with resources, facilities, and coaching/support staff to attract the caliber of players you need to be successful.
If this season goes where it looks like its going, this will be the 3rd straight season with single digit wins. There aren't many situations where a coach will survive that. 1-2 seasons like that can be explained as rebuilding or maybe having some bad luck with recruiting or injuries, but 3 in a row has to get the AD wondering if the coach has lost the confidence of the players and do you risk letting the ship sink deeper. Even with the hazing incident Gilligan never had 3 seasons in a row this bad.
That being said, the problems with the program are deeper than just Sneddon and signs of the program slipping have been ignored by the admin for too long. In certain ways it feels to me that UVM runs all their athletic programs like its 1950 - you hire a coach with a handshake and step back & let them run things until they want to retire. I admire that way of doing things when it works, but D-1 athletics is a cut-throat business these days (esp. in HE) and the school has to make the commitment with resources, facilities, and coaching/support staff to attract the caliber of players you need to be successful.
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jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
Its all about the money. College hockey is an arms race and UVM cant compete unless they are sold out and people are buying everything in site. There is a bad vibe around the program. My guess is that they move him out of the head coach but keep him on in some administrative role. recruiting goes out the window if he doesn't get a contract extension, so I think the decision is mad in April or May.
Its all about the money. College hockey is an arms race and UVM cant compete unless they are sold out and people are buying everything in site. There is a bad vibe around the program. My guess is that they move him out of the head coach but keep him on in some administrative role. recruiting goes out the window if he doesn't get a contract extension, so I think the decision is mad in April or May.
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
Just curious if any the bellyachers on the thread actually contribute $$$$ to UVM athletics and UVM hockey specifically? If not, maybe you should in order to make this program better.
Just curious if any the bellyachers on the thread actually contribute $$$$ to UVM athletics and UVM hockey specifically? If not, maybe you should in order to make this program better.
UVM Cat in Texas
Now UVM Cat in Georgia
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
I hate to think what this is doing in terms of getting a new facility. I think we'll eventually get one whether the team's winning games or not, but right now there's not a lot to get fired up about. The time to get it done would have been right after our Frozen Four appearance but, alas, we didn't have our ducks in a row. Now that we're actually starting to get things lined up, the team sucks. Go figure.
Agree that things are considerably different now than when Gilligan was coaching at UVM. I remember around the time I attended UVM (class of 1987) someone had written a book called "The Public Ivies." As I recall, the book featured about 10-12 schools, including UVM, where you could supposedly get an "ivy-like" education at a public school price. UVM lapped up the publicity generated by that book like it was cherry Kool Aid, and fancied itself a somewhat elite educational institution. Accordingly, they could have cared less about the success of the hockey team, or any of the other sport for that matter. After a while someone finally figured out UVM was "just" a state university (a good one, but a state U nonetheless), and I thought the decision to move to Hockey East was recognition of that fact, and a commitment to have the hockey team compete, year in and year out, on a national level. With an increase in the level of commitment, I would hope there'd be a commensurate increase in the level of expectation. Thus, I don't think Sneddon should get a free pass when he's putting a lousy product on the ice. I gave Sneddon the benefit of the doubt for the last 2 seasons (based on his previous success), but not for this one. If the administration and AD find it acceptable, we might as well return to the ECAC or, worse yet, see if Atlantic Hockey will have us.
I hate to think what this is doing in terms of getting a new facility. I think we'll eventually get one whether the team's winning games or not, but right now there's not a lot to get fired up about. The time to get it done would have been right after our Frozen Four appearance but, alas, we didn't have our ducks in a row. Now that we're actually starting to get things lined up, the team sucks. Go figure.
UVM Cat in Texas
Now UVM Cat in Georgia
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
FYI, you can add Colgate to the growing list of schools that seem able to put together the funding for a new on-campus rink.
That's got to be about 15 schools just in the last three years.
http://www.uscho.com/2013/02/08/colgate-eyeing-new-37-8-million-on-campus-rink/
FYI, you can add Colgate to the growing list of schools that seem able to put together the funding for a new on-campus rink.
That's got to be about 15 schools just in the last three years.http://www.uscho.com/2013/02/08/colgate-eyeing-new-37-8-million-on-campus-rink/
jcarter7669
Registered User
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
I've watched them from time to time online, it's a decent feed for the most part. The game will also be on WCAXtra channel 3.2, which is available over the air and also on Comcast I believe.
I've watched them from time to time online, it's a decent feed for the most part. The game will also be on WCAXtra channel 3.2, which is available over the air and also on Comcast I believe.
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
Well we pay $20 a ticket for a single digit win team in a old building with lines at the bathroom. You seem to think we are millionaires and have
a mill or two lying around.
Well we pay $20 a ticket for a single digit win team in a old building with lines at the bathroom. You seem to think we are millionaires and have
a mill or two lying around.
UVM Cat in Texas
Now UVM Cat in Georgia
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013
I know I said I'd like to see the team lose out, but Sneddon's our coach for the foreseeable future, and a strong finish to the season would help in terms of building for next year. For me, that would mean a win tonight, a win in one of the two games next weekend at NU, and two wins in our killer six game stretch to end the season, or at least a win and a tie.
Regarding tonight, Maine seems to have finally gotten their act together and right now they're playing like one the better teams in HE. Although we really need this one bad, I see it as a close loss--maybe 4-2 with an empty net goal to ice it for Maine.
I know I said I'd like to see the team lose out, but Sneddon's our coach for the foreseeable future, and a strong finish to the season would help in terms of building for next year. For me, that would mean a win tonight, a win in one of the two games next weekend at NU, and two wins in our killer six game stretch to end the season, or at least a win and a tie.
Regarding tonight, Maine seems to have finally gotten their act together and right now they're playing like one the better teams in HE. Although we really need this one bad, I see it as a close loss--maybe 4-2 with an empty net goal to ice it for Maine.