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UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

jcarter7669 said:
I post less frequently because I've got too many other things to do... unfortunately. That said, I was a Sneddon defender for a while, but there are things I just can't get over....

Is the program worse off or better off then before he took over?
- We are in HE which is an improvment.
- We have gone to the Tourney a few times
- When we are good we tend to be good...but when we are bad we tend to be really bad.

- When we suck we really suck. Every 3-4 years we are terrible.
- Attendence is horrendous, Sneddon has squandered a 10 year wait list to empty seats.
- Enthusiasm is down. Even with the students there its not the same. Students want to go watch squeeky ball.
- To support Sneddon you must believe that UVM can only ever be a mid tier team. That's what Sneddon can do and hes been behind the bench long enough to show that's all he can do.

There is no reason that with the right staff/coach and support from the school that the Cats can not develop into a top tier team. Had Jim Montgomery came to UVM instead of going to Denver 2 years ago this team would not have the record it does... We are here, because this is where Sneddon led us. Does UVM lack the support? Their financial support is waning... but thats because of the on ice product. People want to see year over year success. Not up down up down down down up down up up down down down years. I doubt it is now, but for a while UVM was one of the few profitable men's hockey programs.

Sneddon has actually declined the program... there is less demand, less enthusiasm, and less profitability then there was before he came, in exchange for a very mild bump in success. The Gutt used to rock and it was the ticket to have on a winter weekend. Now its just ho hum, why do I keep paying more and more for season tickets when I can just buy them for whatever games I want to actually sit through.

When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. Schuleman needs to hit the recruiting trail and find a new coach for the new building. This will be his legacy... do you eliminate that last excuse and get upgraded facilities only to continue with the mediocre teams we have been accustomed to, or do you seize the opportunity to create a top tier program, with top tier facilities AND a top tier coach to lead it?

If Bazin can do it at UMLOL then someone can do it at UVM...
If Leahman can do it at PC then someone can do it at UVM...
UConn...
heck, even UMass has more upside potential...

Its not that UVM can not be a top program, it just isn't. And that requires a change at the helm.
If Bazin can do it at UMLOL then someone can do it at UVM...
If Leahman can do it at PC then someone can do it at UVM...
UConn...
heck, even UMass has more upside potential...

Its not that UVM can not be a top program, it just isn't. And that requires a change at the helm.
Click to expand...

Yeah as a student I can confirm that enthusiasm is down. The student section has been so deflated most of this season. I've been trying but it's hard to care about this year's team tbh, especially with basketball being as good as it is.

One thing that should be noted - Sneddon is in a contract year. He signed a three year extension after 2014-15, with options for 2018-19 and 2019-20. So if Schulman wanted to, he could let him walk for free.
 
Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

jcarter7669;6559299 There is no reason that with the right staff/coach and support from the school that the Cats can not develop into a top tier team. Had Jim Montgomery came to UVM instead of going to Denver 2 years ago this team would not have the record it does... We are here said:
Not only that Bob Corran hired Sneddon over Jeff Jackson!! Man won 2 national title at Lake Superior State and at the time did not have a job after working with a OHL team and is now at Notre Dame and been to what 3 frozen fours and multiple NCAAs. I believed in Sneddon until about 2012 when I started getting concern and thought maybe after those really bad years they were turning a corner recruiting and win wise because they were getting guys who they had on their best teams but now we can see it just isnt there! 15 years is a long time and eventually time runs out! People are seeing the light and I hope Schuman does too I simply do not get fans who act like everything is fine and UVM just supposed to accept where they are! People wake Up! UMAss getting more talent to Amherst and if they pass UVM and Maine takes a step forward you're only looking at Merrimack behind you that where you really want to Be? hell no!!!!
Click to expand...
 
Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

GreenCat said:
Looks like Sneddon is on year two of a two year extension with 2 option years. So technically the school would not be on the hook contract wise after this season. I never like to see someone fired but it is time for a change.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/sports/college/2015/05/01/uvm-hockey-coach-kevin-sneddon-signs-contract-extension/26696063/
Click to expand...

Also, UVM will no longer be paying Lori McBride's buyout (women's basketball coach who was fired in 2016 with two years remaining).
 
Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

TovarishchLisa said:
Yeah as a student I can confirm that enthusiasm is down. The student section has been so deflated most of this season.
Click to expand...

What's worse is it doesn't even compare to 10-15 years ago. I mean St. Louis / Perrin et al. were a once in a lifetime duo to come through and things were rocking as one would expect, but even the Strong / Lenes teams had the Gutt wild. But it has just been a steady decline through much of Sneddon's tenure. And the ticket sales are probably the most telling... I signed up as a student for season tickets, at the time it was estimated at 8 years. But it's free to get on the wait list so great. Sometime 5-6 years later I was finally called. Now, you can buy them today if you wanted. The product isn't worth the costs anymore to people. Even more... UVM had a 70+ game sold out streak going at one point and that only ended because of a Sunday game when the Pats were in the mix for a Super Bowl. Now I'd be surprised to muster a 10 game sold out streak.


It would be one thing if there just wasn't any talent on the team, but that's not the case. This is on the coaching staff. It's time for Sneddon to go.
 
Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

jcarter7669 said:
What's worse is it doesn't even compare to 10-15 years ago. I mean St. Louis / Perrin et al. were a once in a lifetime duo to come through and things were rocking as one would expect, but even the Strong / Lenes teams had the Gutt wild. But it has just been a steady decline through much of Sneddon's tenure. And the ticket sales are probably the most telling... I signed up as a student for season tickets, at the time it was estimated at 8 years. But it's free to get on the wait list so great. Sometime 5-6 years later I was finally called. Now, you can buy them today if you wanted. The product isn't worth the costs anymore to people. Even more... UVM had a 70+ game sold out streak going at one point and that only ended because of a Sunday game when the Pats were in the mix for a Super Bowl. Now I'd be surprised to muster a 10 game sold out streak.


It would be one thing if there just wasn't any talent on the team, but that's not the case. This is on the coaching staff. It's time for Sneddon to go.
Click to expand...

I think more than anything UVM needs a culture change. Since Sneddon's last extension, we've gone 38-44-8, had a hazing scandal, and lost quite a few players to transfers or cuts (off the top of my head: Stenerson, Daigle, Lee, Kearley, Irwin, Ferguson, Klein, Munson...Abramson, I guess too? even though it seems he's pursuing a career outside hockey). That to me makes it smell like there's something up. I get that overrecruitment at UVM is an issue that people have talked about to death, and not every transfer is hockey-related, but still.

And honestly I hate talking bad on Sneddon, from interacting with him as media he's a genuinely nice guy. But this program seems to be stuck in neutral as a number of programs in Hockey East move forward (Northeastern comes to mind, hell even UMass is showing a pulse). The only coaches that have been around longer than him in HE are York and Umile, and both of those guys have won quite a few trophies, whether national or conference.

I think the likeliest scenario is Schulman gives him the first option year, but doesn't give him the second if there's not significant improvement. He has shown that he is willing to go outside the university to replace head coaches if he feels that's the right move, and I do think it's important to get a new culture in.

Anywho, there's a game tonight down at Dartmouth...I'd be lying if I said I didn't completely forget. Been too focused on the women's hockey and basketball tournaments at UVM this weekend
 
UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

TovarishchLisa said:
I think more than anything UVM needs a culture change. Since Sneddon's last extension, we've gone 38-44-8, had a hazing scandal, and lost quite a few players to transfers or cuts (off the top of my head: Stenerson, Daigle, Lee, Kearley, Irwin, Ferguson, Klein, Munson...Abramson, I guess too? even though it seems he's pursuing a career outside hockey). That to me makes it smell like there's something up. I get that overrecruitment at UVM is an issue that people have talked about to death, and not every transfer is hockey-related, but still.

And honestly I hate talking bad on Sneddon, from interacting with him as media he's a genuinely nice guy. But this program seems to be stuck in neutral as a number of programs in Hockey East move forward (Northeastern comes to mind, hell even UMass is showing a pulse). The only coaches that have been around longer than him in HE are York and Umile, and both of those guys have won quite a few trophies, whether national or conference.

I think the likeliest scenario is Schulman gives him the first option year, but doesn't give him the second if there's not significant improvement. He has shown that he is willing to go outside the university to replace head coaches if he feels that's the right move, and I do think it's important to get a new culture in.

Anywho, there's a game tonight down at Dartmouth...I'd be lying if I said I didn't completely forget. Been too focused on the women's hockey and basketball tournaments at UVM this weekend
Click to expand...

I would prefer to keep it too the stats - as I really think that is where the underlying story is at - and quite frankly supports the direction that Sneddon MUST GO.

However a point I overlooked that you raise is the number of top players that have been shuffled out the door - while under scholarship. Of greater concern, that seems to be something that as a new recruit you would consider before accepting anything with this coaching staff (which I would think will ultimately continue to drag the program down).

Losing players Stenerson, Irwin, Abramson, as well as the others raises a question of some ethics. If I recall, Stenerson was one of our top leading scorers - then the next year, he’s gone??

Does anyone know more of the facts on these guys leaving??? Were they just dusted to the side? Were scholarships forfeited? NCAA governs this I would assume, but there seems to be some very questionable ethics under Sneddon (clearly the hazing incident). Wonder if he did the same at Union? Schulman needs to step in soon.

Sneddon must go - back to the stats though. Let’s see what more we can draw on after the game tonight.
 
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Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

David Pecan was another, although I think his departure was for some sort of violation of team rules. And, of course, let's not forget Wahs Stacey just up and quitting during his senior season. I believe he was the team's leading scorer that season when he quit.
 
Re: UVM 2017/18: A Gutt Check

UVM Cat in Texas said:
David Pecan was another, although I think his departure was for some sort of violation of team rules. And, of course, let's not forget Wahs Stacey just up and quitting during his senior season. I believe he was the team's leading scorer that season when he quit.
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I was trying to keep it since the last contract extension Sneddon got which was after the 2014-15 season. But yeah it seems to be a problem.
 
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