Russell Jaslow
Registered User
Utica College is no longer part of Syracuse University. So, no. And besides, it wouldn’t be Utica going D1…
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Utica College: The gang's all here.
- Thread starter Fishman'81
- Start date
Utica College is no longer part of Syracuse University. So, no. And besides, it wouldn’t be Utica going D1…
SHUCrosscheck
Registered User
Russell-
There is a vote before the NCAA this January to waive the D1 scholarship play up rule. If the vote goes through teams that have 1 sport playing up at a D1 level will be able to offer scholarships on par with current rules. This rule was sponsored by RIT, Union and Utica...... so you tell me
bakdraft21
Well-known member
wow The U has a few good seasons and there's talk of going D1......
IceKnights20
Member
Using RIT as a comparison and ignoring whether or not it is even possible, moving to D1 would probably be a mistake. RIT was a perennial favorite at the D3 level, 9 NCAA appearances in the last 17 years as a D3 program, and after 17 years as a D1 program has made the NCAAs all of 3 times. They are at best a middle of the road D1 program recruiting the same kids as the top tier D3 programs. Isn’t being a winning D3 program better?
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Russ, you know how to do "dick" better than I do. You might even have invented it, old bud. (But I'm taking notes. Always striving to be the best I can be.)
Yet, yeah, I had my venues mixed-up. I'm old and have been to a lot of arenas, and I forget shit...
The place I was describing was in ROCHESTER! Don't remember its corporate branding at that time (mid 2000's, sometime) and I blew that one. I get the Buffalo and Rochester exits confused at times. The monotonous middle section of the Thruway has a mind-numbing effect as one travels West from Utica. I just exit when The Warden tells me to.
In any case, it's fun to see this thread as active as it is. Keep on commenting, you all. I readily admit that (generally) D-3 posters are more interesting than the D-1 peeps.
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Pioneer247
Member
It's more than the hockey in this case though in my opinion. You would be bringing to Division 1: one of the best venues in college hockey (in my humble opinion), a fanbase that would be #20 in D1 attendance using current numbers from this year (and would be #1 in the Atlantic), the to-be-finished Nexus Center right next door, which will end up being a top tier training facility for hockey in New York State, and most importantly, a city that believes and supports their hockey programs.
It's not an inconceivable thought to have UC in Division 1. Will they be going to the tournament year one? Absolutely not. But it's a program that has the tools to be successful and a venue where D1 teams want to play in
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Pretty sure that it's close to impossible to go D-1 in just one sport, still.
And even if that could happen despite the silly NCAA rules, I'm not at all convinced that replacing an elite D-3 team with a bottom-feeder D-1 team makes any sense here, in the first place. (See RIT.)
Yeah, The Aud is a fancy venue, but try to recruit at Utica for top-shelf D-1 talent. Good luck with that!
Utica is right where it needs to be, IMO.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
20+ years ago. I haven't seen it since then.
Can you link us to the proposal for said rule change?
NCAA rules aside - because the vote IS 100% happening within a few months.
To your other point I disagree. The Utica community likes their hockey. Its not just another Atlantic Hockey school, hoping the college students come to the game tonight. Utica is an immediate contender in the AHA.
Recruits want to go where they are treated well. From a hockey standpoint they would get treated the best in Utica over any other AHA school
Russell Jaslow
Registered User
That is correct. January 22 is the vote.
However that is ONLY for those schools that were at the time allowed to play one team up but were not allowed to offer scholarships anymore, because they missed the grandfather clause timing. It has NOTHING to do with future programs, because the NCAA has banned the one play up rule, and therefore doesn't have to worry about this scholarship exception ever again. (BTW, there are a lot of D3 schools sponsoring this, stating they are okay with these last remaining D3 play up schools to offer scholarships for their D1 programs.)
Which is why this talk of Utica makes no sense, unless the entire school moves to D1.
Russell Jaslow
Registered User
The publicity and interest from potential students RIT got when they made the Frozen Four was astounding. Talk to anyone in the marketing and recruiting departments at RIT. RIT has definitely made out being D1 without needing to be a national power.
Having said that, you are correct, that doesn't work for everyone.
Having said that
I actually think Utica would work as a D1 hockey program. If they can offer scholarships, I think they have a very good recruiting tool with their arena, support, and facilities. Just look at how AIC improved immensely with a new arena and the right commitment from the school and coaching staff. I can see Utica being an almost instant contender in AHA and someone not to be taken lightly by the rest of the country. And that could be good enough for what Utica would want to get out of the venture.Hockeyguy1424
New member
The only reason I made reference to RIT was as I can remember them being the last college to make the jump from D3 hockey to D1. All other sports stayed D3 and they moved from the Empire 8 (or whatever the league was called then to Liberty)
Looking over the Liberty league and you have a couple of schools that are D1 hockey and the rest of their athletic teams are still D3.
RPI, Union, St. Lawrence and Clarkson to name a few. This was MY reasoning as to why I thought they would possibly move to Liberty league. Taking into account some schools have football some don’t. As well as other sports. And we can’t forget the womens sports as well. I don’t have time to look and compare whom has what and what level they are playing at.
This jumping to D1 hockey isn’t because Utica has had a few good season in hockey. I had heard the rumors a season or two before Covid hit, I think with Covid hitting obviously slowed or stopped whatever talks were going on at the time. I would much rather see Utica stay D3, but the UCHC unfortunately is not a strong conference and that may have something to do with the hockey move. I know a couple years back of talks that Utica wanted to join the SUNYAC, that fell apart rather quickly. We will all soon find out what’s happening. The campus is a buzz with something, to which I talked to a few people that were tight lipped.
Looking over the Liberty league and you have a couple of schools that are D1 hockey and the rest of their athletic teams are still D3.
RPI, Union, St. Lawrence and Clarkson to name a few. This was MY reasoning as to why I thought they would possibly move to Liberty league. Taking into account some schools have football some don’t. As well as other sports. And we can’t forget the womens sports as well. I don’t have time to look and compare whom has what and what level they are playing at.
This jumping to D1 hockey isn’t because Utica has had a few good season in hockey. I had heard the rumors a season or two before Covid hit, I think with Covid hitting obviously slowed or stopped whatever talks were going on at the time. I would much rather see Utica stay D3, but the UCHC unfortunately is not a strong conference and that may have something to do with the hockey move. I know a couple years back of talks that Utica wanted to join the SUNYAC, that fell apart rather quickly. We will all soon find out what’s happening. The campus is a buzz with something, to which I talked to a few people that were tight lipped.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
(The above.) There is really no point in discussing Utica being a hockey-only D-1 program. Can't happen at this juncture.
And, ya know, there is very scant evidence of that sort of thing working, anyway. RIT had a tournament run once, but conferences like the AHA don't recruit well and all those teams end-up as 15-16 seeds at best, most years. And almost EVERY year, the AHA gets a bid only on the basis of a silly AQ, not on the basis of actual merit.
Furthermore, UC is in no way, shape, or form going to win in D-1 level with its current roster, as good as it is at the D-3 level. Top-shelf D-1 teams would absolutely hammer a UC, a Geneseo, a Norwich, etc., every night of the week and twice on Tuesdays. There's a good reason these guys were overlooked by D-1 in the first place, and it's telling that multiple D-1 cast-offs often excel in D-3.
I'm fine with Utica staying put and being a biggish fish in a small pond. I like going to The Aud and seeing UC win all the time. And I like D-3 hockey in general. I wouldn't change a thing right now.
Russell Jaslow
Registered User
Yes. But as members of the ECAC. And only Union didn’t offer scholarships.
SHUCrosscheck
Registered User
Thanks!
I find it interesting that the SUNYAC is also one of the sponsors of this rule. I know that in the distant past Oneonta was D-2 and then D-1 in soccer and dropped back to D-3 (in 2006?) after the last vote on play-up school scholarships. Any body know if they are interested in going back (if that was even possible) to D-1 if this passes? If not what is the angle for the SUNYAC schools?
While nothing surprises me, I would find it strange that UC would pass on the tuition money generated by the hockey team (more students and more tuition money is why we expanded our athletic offerings 20 years ago).
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Didn't Union disguise scholarships as "grants in aid"?
That used to be a common work-around for the ECAC as a whole, and the Ivies in particular.
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Russell Jaslow
Registered User
Yes, but you have to make sure they are evenly distributed amongst the student population. Otherwise, you get into the situation which got schools like Geneseo, Potsdam, Buffalo State, and most recently Elmira into trouble.
The Ivies are a peculiar situation. By the NCAA rules, they have every right to offer scholarships. They are full fledged D1 members. It is their own institutional and league decision to not offer scholarships. So, how they police that is entirely up to them. The NCAA has nothing to do with that.