US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

[unofan]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

The IOC may not like it, but hockey is (literally) the bread and butter of the winter Olympics.

the figure skaters and their audiences probably disagree with that statement...

 

[BUT09]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

If lacrosse were an Olympic sport and we made it to the gold medal game, I'd watch and really want us to win, but it's very unlikely that I'd continue to be interested beyond the closing ceremonies.

Good point. I would feel the same.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

If lacrosse were an Olympic sport and we made it to the gold medal game, I'd watch and really want us to win, but it's very unlikely that I'd continue to be interested beyond the closing ceremonies.

I don't think I'd watch it...yeah, I'd want the US to win, just to help the medal count, but if I'm not interested in the sport I'm not going to watch just because there is a medal at stake. I watched skiing, speed skating, curling and hockey because I think that they are entertaining, I avoided the figure skating because, frankly, figure skating sucks. It didn't matter that the US had a chance to medal.

On the other hand, if it were soccer, I'd hope for the US to lose, the last thing we need is for that godawful sport to get more popular here.

 

[blockski]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

the figure skaters and their audiences probably disagree with that statement...

I'm speaking of tickets sold, which is how the actual event organizers (VANOC, in this case) make their money to cover costs - they don't see any of the TV revenue.

Figure skating may be very popular, but you've got a very limited number of events. You've got a grand total of 10 events that you can sell tickets to. Men's Hockey has 30, and will draw just as big of a crowd.

It's already not easy (financially speaking) for a city to host the Olympics, and hockey is one of those sports that enables you to cash in.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

Hard to imagine the Olympics ever caving in to a pro sports league and coughing up any money, just for the precedent.

I'm guessing this has more to do with snapping the players into line at the next collective bargaining agreement.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

Excellent post. But at least we had the country's attention for a couple of weeks. It was a magnificant tournament and being a avid hockey fan, yesterday was fantastic even tho the result wasn't what we hoped. Honestly, I haven't been that excited and anticipated a hockey game that much in years. I can't remember the last time I literally jumped up out of my seat like I did when the US tied it up. Good stuff. Wish I could experience that feeling every time I sat down to watch any sport.

Me too. It was great stuff and it sucks that it had to end.

That's why losing this Olympic game will leave a huge missed opportunity void in hockey in America for another 10 years. We may never have a larger national audience for hockey that what we just watched yesterday. We may have inspired some new viewers and few thousand new players yesterday with a silver, but a US gold medal may have inspired millions of viewers and players.

We needed a shot in the arm. Our sport is not growing. College hockey is losing programs, and not gaining them. Youth wise, we're picking up some elite players in new states due to NHL expansion, but some of our core development areas are declining (e.g. New England, Michigan) in registrations, leaving the game's growth stagnant, and the increasing cost of hockey combined with a growth of other sports doesn't bode well for us. Gold medals are the only time average Americans care about hockey beyond our core base of hockey fans, and the opportunities to bring them into the fold are fleeting and rare. At the same time, the NHL's innability to stay on ESPN has crushed the growth of the sport in the mainstream sports media.

One more American goal yesterday could have made a world of difference on a huge stage. But now, it's back to waiting in the wings for our next opportunity and I think 10 years from now, we're going to look back on this 2010 loss as perhaps the key milestone in the long decline of hockey in the USA.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

I think 10 years from now, we're going to look back on this 2010 loss as perhaps the key milestone in the long decline of hockey in the USA.

It became obvious this week hockey is declining in key European countries at a similar rate as the US for probably the same reasons (cost, time, internet, X-game activities). Surprising that the Finns, Swedes, Czechs featured so few young stars.

Perhaps we've seen the peak of European hockey in 2000 and it will decline over the next few years.

Europeans drafted in NHL Draft.
http://www.nhl.com/futures/europe.html

Year  	Int'l  	Total Int'l%
1969 	1 	84 	1.2
1970 	0 	115 	0.0
1971 	0 	117 	0.0
1972 	0 	152 	0.0
1973 	0 	168 	0.0
1974 	6 	247 	2.4
1975 	6 	217 	2.8
1976 	8 	135 	5.9
1977 	5 	185 	2.7
1978 	16 	234 	6.8
1979 	6 	126 	4.8
1980 	13 	210 	6.2
1981 	32 	211 	15.2
1982 	35 	252 	13.9
1983 	34 	242 	14.0
1984 	40 	250 	17.6
1985 	31 	252 	12.3
1986 	28 	252 	11.1
1987 	38 	252 	15.1
1988 	39 	252 	15.5
1989 	38 	252 	15.1
1990 	53 	250 	21.2
1991 	55 	264 	20.8
1992 	84 	264 	31.4
1993 	78 	286 	27.3
1994 	80 	286 	27.9
1995 	69 	234 	29.5
1996 	58 	241 	24.0
1997 	63 	246 	25.6
1998 	75 	258 	29.0
1999 	94 	272 	34.5
2000 	123 	293 	42.0
2001 	119 	289 	41.1
2002 	110 	290 	37.9
2003 	93 	292 	31.8
2004 	88 	291 	30.2

 

[Husky4Life]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

Very bummed obviously that we lost the game yesterday, but on a bigger picture . . . Hockey won, and that is great for the sport I love so much.

Hell, I think that game might have stopped ESPN from showing college basketball for a minute or two and talk hockey.

 

[Yelnick]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

Very bummed obviously that we lost the game yesterday, but on a bigger picture . . . Hockey won, and that is great for the sport I love so much.

Hell, I think that game might have stopped ESPN from showing college basketball for a minute or two and talk hockey.

But only for a minute or two. Not being able to show moving highlights (only pictures) really limited the time they spent on the game.

 

[MadCityRich]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

May I rant a little? Sunday AM I was listening to ESPN radio. Some hack (cannot remember his name *EDIT* John Kincaid) was pleading with NBC NOT to compare this game to 1980, NOT to mention Eruzione, Johnson, Brooks, etc., NOT to show any video, NOT to overblow the game.

Now, I realize this game wasn't even close to what happened in Lake Placid in '80, but it was for the Gold Medal and....

AT LEAST NBC HAD HOCKEY ON TV unlike ESPN, you hack!

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

One more American goal yesterday could have made a world of difference on a huge stage. But now, it's back to waiting in the wings for our next opportunity and I think 10 years from now, we're going to look back on this 2010 loss as perhaps the key milestone in the long decline of hockey in the USA.

I disagree with your pessimistic assessment here. Sure, a gold is better than a silver, but hockey got exposure and the US team did not look outclassed. Whether the US wins gold or silver yesterday, it's still a rough stretch for youth hockey in this country due to the overall economic climate (especially in places like Michigan) and the economics of the game itself.

I know we all want to see hockey, especially youth and college hockey, expand to other markets, but this is not likely to happen even if Team USA does happen to pick up the occasional gold medal on the world stage. It's a sport primarily played in the Upper Midwest and the Northeast, and as long as the rest of the country obsesses over football, basketball, and non-sports such as NASCAR, it's pretty much going to stay that way.

 

[TimU]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

For what it's worth, from ESPN's front page.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

That's why losing this Olympic game will leave a huge missed opportunity void in hockey in America for another 10 years. We may never have a larger national audience for hockey that what we just watched yesterday. We may have inspired some new viewers and few thousand new players yesterday with a silver, but a US gold medal may have inspired millions of viewers and players.

Maybe I'm just too cynical, but I can't see how winning the gold would have made all that difference. Are you saying that because we lost, little Jimmy isn't going to want to play hockey where he otherwise would have based on watching this one game?

Winning yesterday wouldn't have changed any of the factors that make hockey the distant fourth most popular sport. It wouldn't have built a rink in Alabama, it wouldn't have made ice fees less, it wouldn't have put the NHL on ESPN or college hockey on a station where anybody could find it, it wouldn't have created a generation of adults who played and now have their kids play, it wouldn't have eliminated football, basketball, baseball, lacrosse, soccer, video games, pot and all the other things that kids do instead of hockey.

I can't believe that you'd attach that much significance to one game. I come from a non hockey family and my parents watched the game yesterday. I've taken them to more than a few Badger games over the years, but they're not gonna tune in to see how this NHL season turns out based upon the USA Hockey team winning a gold medal or not.

For non hockey Americans, the game yesterday was an event because of the stage it was on. It wasn't gonna be a life changer based upon winning or losing. If some kid got the bug during these games, I find it hard to believe that it would disappear because we lost in O.T.

Oh yeah, and Julia Mancuso is still HOT, even though she only took the silver medal. I'm still inspired.

 

[bronconick]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

So wait. American teams have won 16 straight Stanley Cups, including teams in California and Florida. Attendance this year is down to 93% from 97% across the NHL this year. The NCAA Frozen Four routinely sells out 16-20,000 seat arenas. We won the U-17, U-18, WJC, beat Canada in Canada, and lost in the gold medal game in overtime and American hockey is on the decline?

When the hell was it at an apex, then?

The Olympics aren't that important after they're done. People watch stuff for two weeks that they don't plan to for another few years because it's a national pride thing. You don't see track, swimming, even with Michael Phelps, or figure skating as huge TV shows, despite the fact that the latter was the first thing to beat American Idol, ever.

Things aren't growing in this country because the economy sucks. Wayne State and Findlay didn't fold because there aren't enough hockey players. They did it because there isn't any money.

An article last week implied that there are 19 NBA franchises in some sort of trouble. The NFL juggernaut has 3 teams (Buffalo, St. Louis, Jacksonville) that could be moving, despite a billion dollar TV contract. MLB is just a pile of crap, where most of the league is little more than feeder organization to a dozen or so franchises with more money than God, and those franchises give money back to the rest of the league that pockets it.

When (if ) the economy recovers, you'll see growth. But no, people aren't going to shell out $600 or whatever to sign their kid up to play hockey when they're scraping money together to pay the mortgage. And unless we were all going to get a chunk of gold because the US won yesterday, the outcome wouldn't have changed that.

 

[alfablue]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

Don't know if this was covered yet in this thread, but did it bother anyone else how only a few colleges were consistently named during the game?

Of course, we heard MSU and Miller, but we also heard Jack Johnson from Michigan, and the Miami player from Canada.

I don't recall any mention any of the other schools who were actually far better represented, at least with NBC's coverage.

Or did I not pay attention?

Granted, I'm a UM fan, and MSU is our rival, but I'm sure I would have noticed if they mentioned if someone was from another school....

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

Don't know if this was covered yet in this thread, but did it bother anyone else how only a few colleges were consistently named during the game?

Of course, we heard MSU and Miller, but we also heard Jack Johnson from Michigan, and the Miami player from Canada.

I don't recall any mention any of the other schools who were actually far better represented, at least with NBC's coverage.

Or did I not pay attention?

Granted, I'm a UM fan, and MSU is our rival, but I'm sure I would have noticed if they mentioned if someone was from another school....

I remember hearing Stastny from Denver, but I didn't hear anything about UND, Minnesota or Wisconsin. They did mention that Pavelski is from Wisconsin, but they weren't talking about the school, I don't think.

 

[Innova]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

I heard that Suter, Rafalski and Pavelski were all from UW at least a couple times. The funny thing was when they said Pavelski was from Stevens Point Area Senior High (correct) but then in the next breath said STASH (incorrect, should have been SPASH).

 

[streaker]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

I agree with you, Bronconick, except for one detail- those Stanley Cups won in American cities didn't consist completely of American players. Good maybe for the casual US fan to celebrate, but not much impact on comparing US hockey and Canadian hockey. Yeah, it rubs the Canadians that the Cup is trotted across the US- and certainly the Canadian media plays it up when teams like Calgary and Montreal etc. become Cup competitive, but it's not a real strong arguing point when comparing players from the two countries.

Yesterday's win by Canada set off an endless national holiday of celebrating- a win here and pockets of US fans would celebrate, but not fill the streets like fans of Cup winning NHL cities- which is really why Canadians feel there is such a gap between hockey in the US and hockey in Canada. 1980 was unique in that the political ramifications and amateur status of the Americans winning here set off a huge rally of national pride. I doubt that will ever happen beating Canada, but I would have loved to find out, if anything, just to reiterate all the fine points that Swami made about squashing their arrogant, elitist entitlement attitude.

 

[bronconick]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

I agree with you, Bronconick, except for one detail- those Stanley Cups won in American cities didn't consist completely of American players. Good maybe for the casual US fan to celebrate, but not much impact on comparing US hockey and Canadian hockey. Yeah, it rubs the Canadians that the Cup is trotted across the US- and certainly the Canadian media plays it up when teams like Calgary and Montreal etc. become Cup competitive, but it's not a real strong arguing point when comparing players from the two countries.

Yesterday's win by Canada set off an endless national holiday of celebrating- a win here and pockets of US fans would celebrate, but not fill the streets like fans of Cup winning NHL cities- which is really why Canadians feel there is such a gap between hockey in the US and hockey in Canada. 1980 was unique in that the political ramifications and amateur status of the Americans winning here set off a huge rally of national pride. I doubt that will ever happen beating Canada, but I would have loved to find out, if anything, just to reiterate all the fine points that Swami made about squashing their arrogant, elitist entitlement attitude.

The only thing I could point at is if a Gold medal is going to give a small nationwide bump, Cups won and competitive teams in non-northern markets might give small local bumps. I know San Jose and Dallas get credit for having stronger then average youth leagues that they help support.

Sharks Ice at San Jose is located at 1500 S. Tenth Street in San Jose, California, at the intersection of Alma and Tenth Street. We are the largest rink facility west of the Mississippi and is one of only seven rink facilities in the United States that currently operates at least four NHL-sized ice rinks

The nearly 170,000 square-feet facility accommodates ice hockey, figure skating, broomball, curling, speed skating, ice dancing, as well as public skating. Sharks Ice is the official practice facility of the NHL’s San Jose Sharks. Sharks Iceat San Jose, along with Sharks Ice at Fremont, currently holds the largest number of Adult USA Hockey participants (2,400) of any facility in the nation. We feature an in-house pro shop, large meeting and party spaces, as well as Stanley’s Sports Bar, a full service restaurant and bar that overlooks three of the rinks.

http://www.sharksiceatsanjose.com/facilities/

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: US Olympic Hockey - Let's Stick It To The Canucks Again!

So wait. American teams have won 16 straight Stanley Cups, including teams in California and Florida. Attendance this year is down to 93% from 97% across the NHL this year. The NCAA Frozen Four routinely sells out 16-20,000 seat arenas. We won the U-17, U-18, WJC, beat Canada in Canada, and lost in the gold medal game in overtime and American hockey is on the decline?

When the hell was it at an apex, then?

Good points. But I am thinking longer term, and the ramifications are serious.

1) US hockey registrations are flat overall, and declining among young players (the growth is from women and older players). Less players is never a good sign for the game. This has been happenning for years, long before the current poor economy. The high cost and specialization of our sport is losing kids to cheaper and easier sports and non-sports free time options, and youth hockey in some of our core areas in New England and Michigan is in serious decline. We can't count on growth in non-traditional areas to take up all the slack from a declining core, and the decline of in-line hockey isn't helping. We need non-traditional growth to supplement a healthy core.

2) NHL TV ratings remain miniscule, and hockey media coverage is declining as newspapers shed full-time hockey coverage and beat writers. Hockey, a former mainstay on ESPN, has been pretty much disappeared from the national sports discourse, outside of the odd fight. Blogs have helped, but hockey is invisible in many parts of the country where it used to be more prominent. Meanwhile. Lacrosse, NASCAR, MMA, Soccer and Extreme Sports have grown recently at our expense. And Football, Baseball and Basketball continue to grow at our expense as well.


3) College Hockey may sell out its' premier event now, but we are losing programs faster than we are replacing them due to Title IX and the economy, and Canadian Junior and the NHL continue to poach many top-end players, which hurts the product on the ice. TV exposure is pretty much where it was 3-4 years ago, and isn't improving much. Some programs have added TV exposure (North Dakota) while other programs have had it reduced (Wisconsin). I would say overall that college hockey is treading water right now, compared to good growth years in 90s and early-to-mid 2000s.
I am not trying to be negative, but with our our sport, it's grow or die, not just gettting good on-ice results.