mnstate0fhockey
New member
I agree. As it should be. I think there is always a little extra criticism when some of the higher producing players available are left off the roster.
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US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
- Thread starter Hux
- Start date
I agree. As it should be. I think there is always a little extra criticism when some of the higher producing players available are left off the roster.
rangersrule
New member
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
Anyone watching the final game of the World Championships this past April saw a MUCH faster team USA dominate Canada. Unless Canada makes some tough decisions and cuts some of the "originals" (Wickenhieser- 36 yrs. old, Hefford- 37 yrs. old, Apps - 31 yrs old) team USA will out skate them all over the ice. The line of Kessel, Decker, Coyne dominated any of the lines Canada put out against them. The Americans are a deeper, faster team and for that reason THEY should be the favorites going into the Olympics!
Anyone watching the final game of the World Championships this past April saw a MUCH faster team USA dominate Canada. Unless Canada makes some tough decisions and cuts some of the "originals" (Wickenhieser- 36 yrs. old, Hefford- 37 yrs. old, Apps - 31 yrs old) team USA will out skate them all over the ice. The line of Kessel, Decker, Coyne dominated any of the lines Canada put out against them. The Americans are a deeper, faster team and for that reason THEY should be the favorites going into the Olympics!
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
I'll take that bet..I'll take the following Canadian Players over any of USA first line possibilities.
Poulin- Agosta - Johnson
I'll take that bet..I'll take the following Canadian Players over any of USA first line possibilities.
Poulin- Agosta - Johnson
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
Are you saying the girls that where chosen don't bring those qualities? The sad part about the National Team is that there are only 21 spots at the end of the centralization period. That is not many spots for the talent that is across this great country. The girls that were picked must fit into the big picture of what coach Stone envisions it will take to win gold. I am sure that Hannah will have more opportunities at the Olympic Teams in the future,
Are you saying the girls that where chosen don't bring those qualities? The sad part about the National Team is that there are only 21 spots at the end of the centralization period. That is not many spots for the talent that is across this great country. The girls that were picked must fit into the big picture of what coach Stone envisions it will take to win gold. I am sure that Hannah will have more opportunities at the Olympic Teams in the future,
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
Since we are discussing roster decisions being made now in anticipation of a tournament happening in February, I have an honest question. Why are the teams picked so soon? On the men's side some countries hold camps around now with the players that they think will be on the team, but the expectation is that over the course of the season (whether it's in the NHL, AHL, or respective European leagues) the players available might change or who is picked might change. This is due to all sorts of factors although by and large countries have a pretty good idea who will be on the roster.
The US and Canada seem to lock it in very early for the women. I guess changes could be made if something drastic happened, but why do they centralize so soon? Is the rational that the competition that players face either in the CWHL or wherever or in college is not good enough to prepare? I can see how pulling players directly out of school might be difficult. Is there a feeling that teamwork takes time to develop? I don't think it takes that long. Or is it tied to the idea that the Olympics is the end all be all? I think a lot of the intense disagreement about the roster decisions comes from the fact that it's really a one in four years chance to play in games that mean anything to the general public. I also think that from a practical standpoint as a coach I might like to see how players are doing during the season before I commit to them.
On a side note, I think it's absurd that the CWHL takes a break for the 4 Nations Cup and is so closely aligned with the national teams overall. They should realize that hockey is an entertainment business and in that landscape the CWHL is comparable to Single A minor league teams at best in terms of entertainment (that's being generous). Why are all the teams in major cities? In the GTA alone the CWHL teams are competing with 1 NHL team, 2 AHL teams, and numerous OHL teams. And they wonder why no one goes. Ok, off my soap box, but I see the way in which the national teams operate, the closed nature of the system, and the short comings of the CWHL effort as closely intertwined.
Since we are discussing roster decisions being made now in anticipation of a tournament happening in February, I have an honest question. Why are the teams picked so soon? On the men's side some countries hold camps around now with the players that they think will be on the team, but the expectation is that over the course of the season (whether it's in the NHL, AHL, or respective European leagues) the players available might change or who is picked might change. This is due to all sorts of factors although by and large countries have a pretty good idea who will be on the roster.
The US and Canada seem to lock it in very early for the women. I guess changes could be made if something drastic happened, but why do they centralize so soon? Is the rational that the competition that players face either in the CWHL or wherever or in college is not good enough to prepare? I can see how pulling players directly out of school might be difficult. Is there a feeling that teamwork takes time to develop? I don't think it takes that long. Or is it tied to the idea that the Olympics is the end all be all? I think a lot of the intense disagreement about the roster decisions comes from the fact that it's really a one in four years chance to play in games that mean anything to the general public. I also think that from a practical standpoint as a coach I might like to see how players are doing during the season before I commit to them.
On a side note, I think it's absurd that the CWHL takes a break for the 4 Nations Cup and is so closely aligned with the national teams overall. They should realize that hockey is an entertainment business and in that landscape the CWHL is comparable to Single A minor league teams at best in terms of entertainment (that's being generous). Why are all the teams in major cities? In the GTA alone the CWHL teams are competing with 1 NHL team, 2 AHL teams, and numerous OHL teams. And they wonder why no one goes. Ok, off my soap box, but I see the way in which the national teams operate, the closed nature of the system, and the short comings of the CWHL effort as closely intertwined.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
This is exactly the reason. The women don't have the luxury to have teams outside of college that would realistically prepare them for the Olympics. I am way too lazy to look it up, but I would guess that over half of the US and Canadian teams have already graduated so they want to provide them the top level of practice/coaching.
This is exactly the reason. The women don't have the luxury to have teams outside of college that would realistically prepare them for the Olympics. I am way too lazy to look it up, but I would guess that over half of the US and Canadian teams have already graduated so they want to provide them the top level of practice/coaching.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
Part of it is that a coach wants to put the team together long enough that they can install systems and all the players have time to learn them and gain comfort, such that when a play develops in the Olympics, the player can just react rather than think about her responsibility. The coach also needs time to learn the pieces at her disposal, try combinations, and decide what works best. The problem for the US and Canada is that it is tough to find opponents that really pressure the roster outside of games versus each other. Just about any combination looks good against other countries that can't match up talent wise. I'm glad that they don't try to centralize 40 people on the roster, because for those that don't make the Olympics roster, it is a big sacrifice to give up a year to train. If there is no reward of an Olympic experience at the end, it may be kinder to let them get on with life. I think one of the problems with any of the post-collegiate leagues is that they don't have the regular training schedules of a college team or a centralized national team.
Hux
Alfond to Ridder & rinks in between
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
Thanks for the responses re: centralizing a small roster now instead of either never or keeping more players longer. I understand why a league such as the CWHL does not offer competition on par with what either team (US or Canada) will face against each other. I guess my discomfort with the process is that it weeds players out so early and does, in my opinion, limit the pool of players because US and Canada really start selecting their teams with how they build world championship teams. It was pointed out that it is probably the kinder thing to do to release players who don't actually have a chance of making the final roster early and that the women's teams need more time to get to their best hockey, but that gets back to the core issue of not having a truly viable league for women to play in after college. No one is worrying about professional players not being ready to the play in the Olympics or worrying about how missing the cut once every four years is impacting their life.
I think centralizing so early lends itself to second guessing roster decisions because it's all being based on perception within the coaching staff and there are no current season stats to back up selections. Obviously a lot can be extrapolated from past performance; I'm not suggesting that a lot of mistakes are made, just that it's hard to correct any that might be made with the current system. But, given the women's hockey landscape, maybe it is the best system.
Thanks for the responses re: centralizing a small roster now instead of either never or keeping more players longer. I understand why a league such as the CWHL does not offer competition on par with what either team (US or Canada) will face against each other. I guess my discomfort with the process is that it weeds players out so early and does, in my opinion, limit the pool of players because US and Canada really start selecting their teams with how they build world championship teams. It was pointed out that it is probably the kinder thing to do to release players who don't actually have a chance of making the final roster early and that the women's teams need more time to get to their best hockey, but that gets back to the core issue of not having a truly viable league for women to play in after college. No one is worrying about professional players not being ready to the play in the Olympics or worrying about how missing the cut once every four years is impacting their life.
I think centralizing so early lends itself to second guessing roster decisions because it's all being based on perception within the coaching staff and there are no current season stats to back up selections. Obviously a lot can be extrapolated from past performance; I'm not suggesting that a lot of mistakes are made, just that it's hard to correct any that might be made with the current system. But, given the women's hockey landscape, maybe it is the best system.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
The pros for men's hockey already have hockey as a full-time career. An assumption can thus be made that they are already training at a level similar to what an Olympic athlete would. Also, the given national organization may like to have the men's team's centralized for longer, but they simply can't afford it. The NHL and other leagues have too much invested in the players to do without them for more than a few weeks. When the US sent amateurs to play men's hockey at the Olympics, the process wasn't that different than what the women's model is today, with the exception that it was mainly young players, because of the best of the older players were playing pro hockey.
mnstate0fhockey
New member
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
Preparing for 2014http://thehockeywriters.com/a-look-at-the-2013-2014-usa-womens-hockey-roster/
Preparing for 2014http://thehockeywriters.com/a-look-at-the-2013-2014-usa-womens-hockey-roster/
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Hux
Alfond to Ridder & rinks in between
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
In '97 they centralized in Walpole, MA at the Iorio Rink, where a dorm had been built for them and a boys JR team. In '01 and '05 they were in Lake Placid. In '09 they were out at the Super Rinks in Blaine. This time around they are in Boston, skating out of Bedford and training with Mike Boyle at his facility in Woburn.
I doubt any of them will be playing in the Clarkson Cup and displacing players who have been with their teams all season long.
In '97 they centralized in Walpole, MA at the Iorio Rink, where a dorm had been built for them and a boys JR team. In '01 and '05 they were in Lake Placid. In '09 they were out at the Super Rinks in Blaine. This time around they are in Boston, skating out of Bedford and training with Mike Boyle at his facility in Woburn.
I doubt any of them will be playing in the Clarkson Cup and displacing players who have been with their teams all season long.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
I don't think that many of the national team players will elect to return to their CWHL teams following the Olympics, but I know that last Olympics a few did come back and play in the Clarkson Cup. I think it's more of an add to the roster than displacing existing players.
I don't think that many of the national team players will elect to return to their CWHL teams following the Olympics, but I know that last Olympics a few did come back and play in the Clarkson Cup. I think it's more of an add to the roster than displacing existing players.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
It's not displacing existing players unless the roster is full, which I remember from last time wasn't the case with all teams. I guess in terms of playing time it might be displacing players but if it's someone better coming back and they wanted to play and there isn't a rule about how many regular season games need to have been played to be on the play-off roster (which there might be but I don't know) then I don't really see an issue with it. The point is to win, right?
It's not displacing existing players unless the roster is full, which I remember from last time wasn't the case with all teams. I guess in terms of playing time it might be displacing players but if it's someone better coming back and they wanted to play and there isn't a rule about how many regular season games need to have been played to be on the play-off roster (which there might be but I don't know) then I don't really see an issue with it. The point is to win, right?
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
From USA Hockey: Bring on the World Tour Unveiled for Women's Team
And it announced that tickets for the Four Nations Cup will go on sale on Monday, September 16.
From USA Hockey: Bring on the World Tour Unveiled for Women's Team
And it announced that tickets for the Four Nations Cup will go on sale on Monday, September 16.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
And now there's no sign that tickets are going on sale. I called the box office in Lake Placid, and their only response is that tickets are general admission and they do not sell out. I have pinged USA Hockey via Twitter to see if they have any additional information. Lovely.
pokechecker
Banned
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
I wouldn't get too worked up over it, if ticket sales in Grand Forks & Burlington are any indication
And now there's no sign that tickets are going on sale. I called the box office in Lake Placid, and their only response is that tickets are general admission and they do not sell out. I have pinged USA Hockey via Twitter to see if they have any additional information. Lovely.
I wouldn't get too worked up over it, if ticket sales in Grand Forks & Burlington are any indication