US Junior Team cuts

[dggoddard]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

This USA Team is built for speed not physicality. Speed can cause problems for the Canadians if the US can play cautiously, not fall behind early and not give up odd man rushes.

The US has nothing to lose and hopefully just goes out there and plays loosey goosey.

Go USA.

 

[Goon]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

Maybe cutting this down to an 8 team tournament isn't such a bad idea. I don't know how much development "lesser" nations get with these kind of poundings.

Of course the Czechs looked almost as bad, so maybe a 6 team tourney in the future

I think it's a great idea because there seems to be a couple of teams that can't seem to compete at the higher level of the other teams.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

For the USA to beat Canada, a couple of things need to happen:

1) Campbell or Lee stands on his respective head in goal. Great goaltending is the major equalizer in a game where Canada enjoys a significant talent advantage. The better the US goaltending is, the better the chance to sneak out with a victory.

2) Canada has a tendency to play a little nervously at times in the big games with all the national pressure they face at home. They are still teenagers and mistakes can happen. If this is the case, the US can take advantage of a break or two to get an advantage and keep it. The US faces no real pressure, because only a few thousand Americans follow this tournament vs millions of Canadians who follow it.

That said, it's more likely that Canada beats the USA on the basis of a talent edge, the home ice advantage they enjoy, combined with the intense pride they take in winning this tournament - they are just very, very hard to beat.

No real pressure? How about nationalistic pride? It doesn't matter if 5 or 5 million are watching, these guys feel intense pressure and honor to represent the USA and win with their best effort.

I would add that without demonstrating intense physical play there is no way the US will win that game. They definitely showed they can be physical during the Slovakia game. I expect a very physical game. Let's hope the the USA shows how sick and tired they are of getting a*ses handed to them by Canada.

Speaking of home ice advantage, I question the reasoning behind Canada hosting this international tournament three out of four years (Ottawa/2009, Saskatchewan/2010, Buffalo/2011, Alberta/2012). Hockey Canada has lined their pockets enough. The IIHF needs to spread it around more and develop the market.

 

[Slap Shot]

Canada will play this game with a huge chip on their shoulder in this regard - they really, really want to beat USA every time they play and they seem to hate the Americans far more than vice versa. You'd think an opponent would pick up on this and respond accordingly but I've noticed that isn't always the case in this game and others involving the Gophers against certain WCHA opponents.

 

[Dirty]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

Speaking of home ice advantage, I question the reasoning behind Canada hosting this international tournament three out of four years (Ottawa/2009, Saskatchewan/2010, Buffalo/2011, Alberta/2012). Hockey Canada has lined their pockets enough. The IIHF needs to spread it around more and develop the market.

This year it was supposed to be in Switzerland, but the Swiss for whatever reason decided they no longer wanted to host the tournament. Canada stepped up and offered to host the tournament.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

This year it was supposed to be in Switzerland, but the Swiss for whatever reason decided they no longer wanted to host the tournament. Canada stepped up and offered to host the tournament.

True, but my understanding is there were 5 remaining bid groups and they were all Canadian.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

Speaking of home ice advantage, I question the reasoning behind Canada hosting this international tournament three out of four years (Ottawa/2009, Saskatchewan/2010, Buffalo/2011, Alberta/2012). Hockey Canada has lined their pockets enough. The IIHF needs to spread it around more and develop the market.

Canada and US border cities are the only places where this tournament is financially successful. The live spectator appetite this tournament is really quite restricted to Canada, and those American cities where Canadian fans can easily drive to the tournament, such as Grand Forks (2 hrs from Winnipeg) or Buffalo (60-90 minutes from Toronto). Other American efforts to host, such as Minneapolis ('82), Anchorage ('89) and Boston ('95), where not very successful. European attendance is historically low for this tournament - they just don't care enough about Junior hockey there to pay to watch it and the Swiss decided they didn't want this year's tourney becuase they knew they couldn't sell it.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

Canada and US border cities are the only places where this tournament is financially successful. The live spectator appetite this tournament is really quite restricted to Canada, and those American cities where Canadian fans can easily drive to the tournament, such as Grand Forks (2 hrs from Winnipeg) or Buffalo (60-90 minutes from Toronto). Other American efforts to host, such as Minneapolis ('82), Anchorage ('89) and Boston ('95), where not very successful. European attendance is historically low for this tournament - they just don't care enough about Junior hockey there to pay to watch it and the Swiss decided they didn't want this year's tourney becuase they knew they couldn't sell it.

I see your point but if Buffalo can bid on it I think if it is marketed properly a couple other American cities might fair well financially or better than in the past too.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

Canada will play this game with a huge chip on their shoulder in this regard - they really, really want to beat USA every time they play and they seem to hate the Americans far more than vice versa. You'd think an opponent would pick up on this and respond accordingly but I've noticed that isn't always the case in this game and others involving the Gophers against certain WCHA opponents.

I think if somehow the same group of 18 & 19 year olds could stay the same age and play the Canucks year after year, the hatred would develop. But you have kids who most likely weren't watching the tourney 3 and 4 years ago so have no idea about Jack Johnson or the booing of the anthem.

Remember what it was like to be 18. And then add to it that you are a drafted hockey player who has always been one of the best in the country. Then add to it that you are put on a team two weeks ago to represent your country. These kids have been playing on thrown together all-star teams for years now and the guys that they're going to battle with today will be on a different team next month. There just isn't the depth of experiences or time together as a team to build up that hatred against one particular foe.

I believe that Hockey Canada indoctrinates their kids from 14 on that they MUST win this tourney and also that the MUST beat the Americans. The pride of a nation and what they consider to be THEIR sport is placed on the shoulders of these kids.

Remember the Olympics in Salt Lake City? Watching that game, it was clear the Canada wanted that game, no, HAD to have that game more than the Americans. More than just National pride was on the line for those guys. It somehow went deeper. They could not fail. No "or else." They simply HAD to win.

USA Hockey hopes to win. We still come at it from an underdog's mentality. Hockey Canada must win. Imagine that pressure placed on you for years and years as a youngster. You'd be going through walls to win the WJC and beat Team USA also.

Hockey Canada sees us as a long term threat to North American hockey superiority, and they should. We will at some point overtake them. Just look at how much has changed in the NHL since 1980 in terms of breakdown of nationalities.

So back to my original point. Derek Stepan, as much as I like him on my Badgers, doesn't come into this tourney with the same baggage that I bring to it. He also doesn't bring the same baggage to our rivalries with the Sioux or the Gophers. It's very hard sometimes for me to realize that I want to beat the Sioux, Gophers or Team Canada more than these kids do, but it's often the case and I don't blame the kids for it. Rivalries in sports are just not what they once were and most likely never will be again.

 

[hockey08]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

"Let's hope the the USA shows how sick and tired they are of getting a*ses handed to them by Canada."

Agreed, obviously would love to see the USA to win not only against Canada but the gold but if they cant I would love for any country to put a end to Canada's five year gold medal winning streak and it would be that much better on there home soil in front of home town fans.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

I see your point but if Buffalo can bid on it I think if it is marketed properly a couple other American cities might fair well financially or better than in the past too.

I don't know the ins and outs of the financing of this particular event, but its pretty obvious that this event is a huge money loser anywhere but in Canada & Border cities.

Switzerland is one of the richest countries on earth. If they can't afford to host the event, its pretty obvious that it isn't going to work financially anywhere else.

What makes this event incredible is that they not only sellout the Canada games, but all the Tier II games as well. The Canadians should be praised for their passion.

As for Team USA, its pretty handy holding the event in North America with all of the comforts of home, no time zone issues and no language barriers.

I say keep it in Canada or the border cities, keep televising it on the NHL Network and keep doing what they are doing because the event and games have been awesome.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

Remember the Olympics in Salt Lake City? Watching that game, it was clear the Canada wanted that game, no, HAD to have that game more than the Americans. More than just National pride was on the line for those guys. It somehow went deeper. They could not fail. No "or else." They simply HAD to win.

I parsed your post for space, but I agreed with everything you said you just did a much better job of articulating my perception that the Canadian kids take the game against the US far more seriously and to heart. It would be nice though to see the US kids pick up on that and respond as much as they can in kind.

 

[TCHB]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

I don't know the ins and outs of the financing of this particular event, but its pretty obvious that this event is a huge money loser anywhere but in Canada & Border cities.

Switzerland is one of the richest countries on earth. If they can't afford to host the event, its pretty obvious that it isn't going to work financially anywhere else.

I'm not positive, but I think a lot of the reason why Switzerland didn't want to host is they thought they would be relegated. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere

 

[joecct]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

I dont think anyone saw Russia losing to the USA in Placid in '80 either

If the game was in Moscow, they would not have lost.

Home ice is a big advantage in this tournament. Every hockey fan north of the border is going to be behind their team. The building will start rocking at warmups and peak when they sing O Canada at the start of the game. The USA fan base down here will be tepid at best.

If the USA wants to win on home ice, they need to hold it in a place where Canadians won't travel or it is a dry state (Utah??).

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

If the game was in Moscow, they would not have lost.

Home ice is a big advantage in this tournament. Every hockey fan north of the border is going to be behind their team. The building will start rocking at warmups and peak when they sing O Canada at the start of the game. The USA fan base down here will be tepid at best.

If the USA wants to win on home ice, they need to hold it in a place where Canadians won't travel or it is a dry state (Utah??).

And then no one will show up. This is Canada's tournament. They all watch it up there, and look forward to it. The fact that they can get some of these countries to attend it and get slaughtered is the amazing part. You want to win it, find a way to beat Canada in Canada. Not sure how you're going to do that, but maybe someday it will happen.

 

[Stack]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

So far after watching the games here's what I see happening:

I see Sweden finishing 4-0, Russia second in that bracket at 3-1 and Finland at 2-2
I see Canada beating the US. Simply put when I watch Canada they look like a pro team and the US looks like a college team. Canada is much more physical and the US has not played a team that is physical AND fast. Unless our goalie stands on his head I see us losing 6-2 with Slovakia or Switzerland finishing third most likely Slovakia.

First quarterfinal we play Finland and squeak out a win. Second quarterfinal Russia pounds Slovakia.
First semifinal we lose to Sweden, second semifinal Canada beats Russia.

Final: Sweden upsets Canada and shuts the **** Canadian crowd up.

Man I hate it when they boo the US players for no reason except they are from the USA. I just don't get Canadians hating the USA.

PS. After talking to a true Canadian Hockey fan this is their Super Bowl. It used to be the Stanley Cup but that has faded with the proliferation of US teams and the lack of Canadian teams in the finals. Her last words to me were " All I want for Christmas is for Canada to beat the US on New Year's Eve". A guy at our table said "In What?" Just shows what this tourney means to the average US person even in Minnesota.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

Man I hate it when they boo the US players for no reason except they are from the USA. I just don't get Canadians hating the USA.

I think there may have been some anti-Americanism in the past boos, but I think the majority of the booing now is not so much that they hate the US Junior team or America per say, but now they see that the USA is a serious rival and long-term threat to the dominant status in 'their game'.

What they they really hate is Gary Bettman, the Sun belt expansion of the NHL at the expense of teams in Canada, and the fact that no Canadian franchise has won the Stanley Cup in a while. The Junior tourney is the one place they get to use their nationalism every year to send a statement that they still own the game.

 

[redwing77]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

I think there may have been some anti-Americanism in the past boos, but I think the majority of the booing now is not so much that they hate the US Junior team or America per say, but now they see that the USA is a serious rival and long-term threat to the dominant status in 'their game'.

What they they really hate is Gary Bettman, the Sun belt expansion of the NHL at the expense of teams in Canada, and the fact that no Canadian franchise has won the Stanley Cup in a while. I

Yeah, but how does that affect us?

I mean, do we support Bettman?

I agree with Canadian fans in saying that Bettman should have been fired a long time ago.

 

[du78]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

The Canadian tax system is as much responsible for the decline in the success of the teams in that country as Bettman. Most players don't want to pay their high taxes and would rather play in the U.S. where they can make more money. The first chance a star player has at making the big bucks through free agency, they are off to a U.S. team as the Canadian teams can't afford them. If Obama gets his health plan passed in the U.S., our taxes will increase significantly and the tax difference between the two countries could be closer.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: US Junior Team cuts

Yeah, but how does that affect us?

I mean, do we support Bettman?

I agree with Canadian fans in saying that Bettman should have been fired a long time ago.

Fans in both countries see hockey as a game. Owners see hockey as a business. The NHL owners love Bettman, and that's who pays his check. Most of the NHL team owners are American businessmen, which doesn't help.

Canadians remember a time when 99 percent of NHL hockey players were Canadian, the league offices were in Toronto and Montreal, and the commissioners like Clarence Campbell looked out for Canadian interests, even when four of the original six teams were American-based. Since then, Canadians see an NHL that doesn't cater to Canadian interests, and they look to the national teams to restore their sense of "ownership" of the game they so dearly love - a game that most Americans are totally ambivalent about. Most Canadians have played the game - it defines who they are and how they get through the difficult long winters.