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US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
- Thread starter Kepler
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
Since the foreign policy of this administration is going to be measured in body bags rather than State Department dinners, I'll just throw this little Aesop's Fable out there.
Note: the CW in the industry is this is actually a fair telling of the situation, which is ridiculous.
Since the foreign policy of this administration is going to be measured in body bags rather than State Department dinners, I'll just throw this little Aesop's Fable out there.
Note: the CW in the industry is this is actually a fair telling of the situation, which is ridiculous.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
Wait, the raptor had been out for a while. How I. The hell did the AIM-9X not come with it from day 1? Wasn't the raptor meant as a dog fighter instead of a bomber? I think that was the case, but realizing that dog fights don't occur anymore, they repurposed it and are finally getting around to the most basic of the close air weapons?
Wait, the raptor had been out for a while. How I. The hell did the AIM-9X not come with it from day 1? Wasn't the raptor meant as a dog fighter instead of a bomber? I think that was the case, but realizing that dog fights don't occur anymore, they repurposed it and are finally getting around to the most basic of the close air weapons?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
While I agree it seems silly, and you'd put your best and most lethal tech on your best and most lethal fighter right off the bat, I can see that if you have to make choices, upgrading older fighters that a) we have a lot more of, b) are more susceptible in a dog fight than the F-22, and c) are somewhat more likely to be engaged in a dogfight, might be a choice you'd make first to improve the overall performance of the entire force.
As noted, the chances of an F-22 ever being in a dog fight are very slim. Even without stealth tech, up close encounters for any fighters are rare, in part, because of stand off weapons. Over Iraq, Tomcats had almost no engagements because as soon as they'd light up the radar on their (now retired) AIM-54 Phoenix missiles at 120 miles out, the Iraqi's would (wisely) turn tail and run. And given the F-22's superior performance characteristics, any opposing pilot would have to be kind of nuts to engage if they could even find them, which they can't until it's too late.
In a conventional situation, by the numbers, with stealth tech and the improved AMRAAM's effectiveness out to 100 miles, a squadron of 20 F-22's should be able to take out up to 70 opposition fighters with very high confidence long before anyone knows the F-22's are even there. Follow on F-16's escorting SAM suppression and strike packages would probably be more likely to hook up with any stragglers. (The ones that had no place to go because a flight of B-2's out of Missouri have already taken out all the airfields.)
Fortunately, we are pretty far ahead of everyone when it comes to air superiority, although the Chinese do have some pretty spiffy new aircraft in development, so it does behoove us to straighten up and fly right, so to speak.
We do stupid stuff all the time in defense but I'm never sure whether it's incompetence or by actual design. I was reading about these awesome new JASSM-ER missiles we have. (Highly accurate 2000 lb. air to surface missiles with 600 mile+ range.) But they are several inches too long to fit inside the F-35's missile bay. They can be carried externally, but then of course, that ruins the stealth signature that we spent billions figuring out.
While I agree it seems silly, and you'd put your best and most lethal tech on your best and most lethal fighter right off the bat, I can see that if you have to make choices, upgrading older fighters that a) we have a lot more of, b) are more susceptible in a dog fight than the F-22, and c) are somewhat more likely to be engaged in a dogfight, might be a choice you'd make first to improve the overall performance of the entire force.
As noted, the chances of an F-22 ever being in a dog fight are very slim. Even without stealth tech, up close encounters for any fighters are rare, in part, because of stand off weapons. Over Iraq, Tomcats had almost no engagements because as soon as they'd light up the radar on their (now retired) AIM-54 Phoenix missiles at 120 miles out, the Iraqi's would (wisely) turn tail and run. And given the F-22's superior performance characteristics, any opposing pilot would have to be kind of nuts to engage if they could even find them, which they can't until it's too late.
In a conventional situation, by the numbers, with stealth tech and the improved AMRAAM's effectiveness out to 100 miles, a squadron of 20 F-22's should be able to take out up to 70 opposition fighters with very high confidence long before anyone knows the F-22's are even there. Follow on F-16's escorting SAM suppression and strike packages would probably be more likely to hook up with any stragglers. (The ones that had no place to go because a flight of B-2's out of Missouri have already taken out all the airfields.)
Fortunately, we are pretty far ahead of everyone when it comes to air superiority, although the Chinese do have some pretty spiffy new aircraft in development, so it does behoove us to straighten up and fly right, so to speak.
We do stupid stuff all the time in defense but I'm never sure whether it's incompetence or by actual design. I was reading about these awesome new JASSM-ER missiles we have. (Highly accurate 2000 lb. air to surface missiles with 600 mile+ range.) But they are several inches too long to fit inside the F-35's missile bay. They can be carried externally, but then of course, that ruins the stealth signature that we spent billions figuring out.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
They thought the same thing in Vietnam...
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
There was another super power on the other side, plus the Mig-21 was a much better jet than the F-4. (which isn't the situation now at all) Even so the US controlled the skies by late 1967. Remember all those scenes in Platoon or Full Metal Jacket where those guys were always hiding from MIGs on bombing and strafing runs?
Me either.
In strictly speaking here of establishing air superiority, creating a No Fly Zone, or destroying/suppressing enemy aircraft, there is no place in the world the US couldn't do it in short order given the motivation. Except perhaps for mainland China where the numbers are more problematic. We have more and a better but it would take a good bit longer, I'd guess.
Never go in against a Sicilian (or an F-22?) when death is on the line!
There was another super power on the other side, plus the Mig-21 was a much better jet than the F-4. (which isn't the situation now at all) Even so the US controlled the skies by late 1967. Remember all those scenes in Platoon or Full Metal Jacket where those guys were always hiding from MIGs on bombing and strafing runs?
Me either.
In strictly speaking here of establishing air superiority, creating a No Fly Zone, or destroying/suppressing enemy aircraft, there is no place in the world the US couldn't do it in short order given the motivation. Except perhaps for mainland China where the numbers are more problematic. We have more and a better but it would take a good bit longer, I'd guess.
Never go in against a Sicilian (or an F-22?) when death is on the line!
Tbe Colonies thought the same thing against the Cylons. That pesky computer virus ruined their day.
All our technology advantage could be ruined by a well placed hack.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
That won't be the problem. The problem will be our stuff will be incredibly fragile and tempermental. The high end stuff won't work at all and the middle range stuff will fail with use and then repair will be slow and undependable.
But still, our biggest advantage is what it has always been: logistics. Guys with clipboards won WW2 -- German equipment and personnel were far superior, but we had a sh-tload of factories beyond bomber range.
That won't be the problem. The problem will be our stuff will be incredibly fragile and tempermental. The high end stuff won't work at all and the middle range stuff will fail with use and then repair will be slow and undependable.
But still, our biggest advantage is what it has always been: logistics. Guys with clipboards won WW2 -- German equipment and personnel were far superior, but we had a sh-tload of factories beyond bomber range.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
I'll believe the Chinese have a fancy new aircraft when I see it. They have zero technological creativity. Impeccable at stealing and replication, but in the end, some sleazball business is going to cut major corners and the things will fall out of the sky.
I'll believe the Chinese have a fancy new aircraft when I see it. They have zero technological creativity. Impeccable at stealing and replication, but in the end, some sleazball business is going to cut major corners and the things will fall out of the sky.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
The Chinese replicated the F-22, and there are satellite photos of Chinese airbases to prove it. They've even promoted them at air shows. The problem for the Chinese is that when experts review tapes of these clones, they lack the finesse of their American counterpart. Their engines aren't able to do what ours can do.
The Chinese replicated the F-22, and there are satellite photos of Chinese airbases to prove it. They've even promoted them at air shows. The problem for the Chinese is that when experts review tapes of these clones, they lack the finesse of their American counterpart. Their engines aren't able to do what ours can do.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
Yup.
I don't even think the Chinese are that good at stealing stuff. The MIC needs a potent enemy to keep the money coming in. If it doesn't have one, it invents one.
It always seems like the Chinese steal block n tech right when the block n+1 tech is coming up for approps. Coincidence, I'm sure.
Yup.
I don't even think the Chinese are that good at stealing stuff. The MIC needs a potent enemy to keep the money coming in. If it doesn't have one, it invents one.
It always seems like the Chinese steal block n tech right when the block n+1 tech is coming up for approps. Coincidence, I'm sure.
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
Beyond the tech advantages, I'd also add that the US probably has the best pilots by a good margin (just like Apollo and Starbuck were) by virtue of the fact we buy the most seat time by a good margin.
Beyond the tech advantages, I'd also add that the US probably has the best pilots by a good margin (just like Apollo and Starbuck were) by virtue of the fact we buy the most seat time by a good margin.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Or, Is this the Pan Moon, John?
Or, 38 Special
Or, how many battalions in a Chinese horde?
Or, Never get involved in a land war in Asia!
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
Nikki Haley rips Russia in UN speech.
I just happened to catch the very end of it, but perhaps most significantly she warned the UN at the end that if they didn't take action "there are times in the lives of states when we are compelled to take our own action."
Nikki Haley rips Russia in UN speech.
I just happened to catch the very end of it, but perhaps most significantly she warned the UN at the end that if they didn't take action "there are times in the lives of states when we are compelled to take our own action."
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: US Foreign Policy: The Wogs Begin at Calais
I think the Trump admin has issued the edict to its operators that now is the time to go hard against Russia because they've been too chummy with Komrade Putin until now, and it's blowing up in their collective face.
This administration works in subtle ways.
I think the Trump admin has issued the edict to its operators that now is the time to go hard against Russia because they've been too chummy with Komrade Putin until now, and it's blowing up in their collective face.
This administration works in subtle ways.
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