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Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
- Thread starter Wholin1
- Start date
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
, I guess this is just new territory for us.
I guess it might look that way
, I guess this is just new territory for us.Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
Nate Leaman has done a phenomenal job with the resources or lack thereof at his disposal. He deserves to be the Penrose winner. Any denigration of him or his team is totally misplaced. One wonders how many of the posts have been written by former athletes.
Nate Leaman has done a phenomenal job with the resources or lack thereof at his disposal. He deserves to be the Penrose winner. Any denigration of him or his team is totally misplaced. One wonders how many of the posts have been written by former athletes.
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
Any comments about the coach's performance is justified and open to debate, imo. And healthy. Expecting to win is a good thing, and questioning whether the man at the helm is the right man to take the program "to the next level" is a natural question.
I agree that Union needs to play a tougher schedule, and I am hoping the NCAA birth and national recognition makes getting games with bigger names easier to achieve.
I was at the games in CT watching both teams for the first time. No idea if it was a bad day at the office for U or not but it was clear that the UMD PP was much more skilled. Union had 9 chances overall but only had great chances early on - many of the PP were sloppy. On the other hand, UMD looked dangerous and more skilled on the PP from the start, and their 2nd PP goal was a thing of beauty. They then repeated the feat the next night vs. Yale when they scored a PP dagger just 7 seconds into the major PP.
In the end, we dont have a large enough sample size at the NCAA tournament level to judge the coach. Its not unreasonable to chalk up the UMD game to a learning experience, and all of us who have watched any sport know that teams go through a learning curve as the program grows. BUT that being said its pretty simple in my book:
Union needs better players. Better players will win more. They will compete outside the ECAC better. And they will make the coach better. Nobody wins without talent, and while Union surely has some good players they need better ones. The goalie is often held up as the best Union player - or at least the most talented and with the brightest future. But he was unimpressive to me in the post-season, and watching the other regional games I saw great performances from a number of goalies that looked as good or better - specifically from Notre Dame, Denver, etc.
Union needs to empower the coach, create an atmosphere of winning with great facilities, etc. and THEN if we cant get over the hump, well, its time to take a hard look.
Until then, its time to reserve judgement - and to help Coach Nate get great players to U!
Any comments about the coach's performance is justified and open to debate, imo. And healthy. Expecting to win is a good thing, and questioning whether the man at the helm is the right man to take the program "to the next level" is a natural question.
I agree that Union needs to play a tougher schedule, and I am hoping the NCAA birth and national recognition makes getting games with bigger names easier to achieve.
I was at the games in CT watching both teams for the first time. No idea if it was a bad day at the office for U or not but it was clear that the UMD PP was much more skilled. Union had 9 chances overall but only had great chances early on - many of the PP were sloppy. On the other hand, UMD looked dangerous and more skilled on the PP from the start, and their 2nd PP goal was a thing of beauty. They then repeated the feat the next night vs. Yale when they scored a PP dagger just 7 seconds into the major PP.
In the end, we dont have a large enough sample size at the NCAA tournament level to judge the coach. Its not unreasonable to chalk up the UMD game to a learning experience, and all of us who have watched any sport know that teams go through a learning curve as the program grows. BUT that being said its pretty simple in my book:
Union needs better players. Better players will win more. They will compete outside the ECAC better. And they will make the coach better. Nobody wins without talent, and while Union surely has some good players they need better ones. The goalie is often held up as the best Union player - or at least the most talented and with the brightest future. But he was unimpressive to me in the post-season, and watching the other regional games I saw great performances from a number of goalies that looked as good or better - specifically from Notre Dame, Denver, etc.
Union needs to empower the coach, create an atmosphere of winning with great facilities, etc. and THEN if we cant get over the hump, well, its time to take a hard look.
Until then, its time to reserve judgement - and to help Coach Nate get great players to U!
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
While I think its great to have heightened expectations, I also think there needs to be a reality check here.. IMO Union IS at the next level or at least is at the level that is realistically as high as can be expected. To truly compete with the North Dakotas, BCs and Michigans of college hockey you need big financial resources, athletic scholarships, and pretty low academic admission standards. Union will never go there.. its just not what Union or the ECAC are all about. As a result U will never consistently attract true blue chip recruits (i.e. top NHL draft choice players). Not saying that U can't parlay their recent success into attracting some slightly better recruits, but the current level of quality is quite sufficient in my book. I also think it is very important that the players are good students and fit-in well with the student body/college community as a whole. A lot of blue-chippers really don't care for education or the things that a place like Union has to offer, and I don't think anyone associated with the program wants to see that.
What Union can hope for is to find very good players that work hard and develop into a deep cohesive team that, with a little luck, can win an ECAC championship and occasionally make some noise in the NCAAs. I'd say we are basically there.. and with another good recruiting class coming next fall I think the trend will continue.
As for the job that Leaman & the coaches are doing, I think this year's team was the most talented U has ever had and the freshman class was also the best in team history. By my count, that is 4 straight seasons of improvement.. pretty darn good I"d say. It was very disappointing to lose in the ECACs and I think that definitely did not help U being game ready & in game shape last Friday, but I can live with that and hope for better things next year.
While I think its great to have heightened expectations, I also think there needs to be a reality check here.. IMO Union IS at the next level or at least is at the level that is realistically as high as can be expected. To truly compete with the North Dakotas, BCs and Michigans of college hockey you need big financial resources, athletic scholarships, and pretty low academic admission standards. Union will never go there.. its just not what Union or the ECAC are all about. As a result U will never consistently attract true blue chip recruits (i.e. top NHL draft choice players). Not saying that U can't parlay their recent success into attracting some slightly better recruits, but the current level of quality is quite sufficient in my book. I also think it is very important that the players are good students and fit-in well with the student body/college community as a whole. A lot of blue-chippers really don't care for education or the things that a place like Union has to offer, and I don't think anyone associated with the program wants to see that.
What Union can hope for is to find very good players that work hard and develop into a deep cohesive team that, with a little luck, can win an ECAC championship and occasionally make some noise in the NCAAs. I'd say we are basically there.. and with another good recruiting class coming next fall I think the trend will continue.
As for the job that Leaman & the coaches are doing, I think this year's team was the most talented U has ever had and the freshman class was also the best in team history. By my count, that is 4 straight seasons of improvement.. pretty darn good I"d say. It was very disappointing to lose in the ECACs and I think that definitely did not help U being game ready & in game shape last Friday, but I can live with that and hope for better things next year.
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Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
Now I've seen everything. Ah, what the heck - on behalf of all Cornell fans, I apologize that we've been dragging the rest of the ECAC down for the last 10 years.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
It may be the single dumbest and apparently most ill-informed statement ever made by an ECAC fan on USCHO, and I have been reading USCHO since it started. I was going to comment on it yesterday morning, but decided that I shouldn't because it was 2 AM and perhaps I had misread it or it was tongue-in-cheek. Then later in the day I forgot about it. To think that for years RPI fans felt that we were at a disadvantage because we had Union as a travel partner. Well, whatever goes around comes around.
ADK is correct that the ECAC suffers because of a relatively low average competition level. If it is a concern of Union, then the first thing that the school should do is to increase the level of its OOC games. ECAC schools have in recent years gotten better players -- just not enough of them per team. League play will improve, but it takes time, and I suspect by then Union will be dragging the league down again.
Now I've seen everything. Ah, what the heck - on behalf of all Cornell fans, I apologize that we've been dragging the rest of the ECAC down for the last 10 years.
It may be the single dumbest and apparently most ill-informed statement ever made by an ECAC fan on USCHO, and I have been reading USCHO since it started. I was going to comment on it yesterday morning, but decided that I shouldn't because it was 2 AM and perhaps I had misread it or it was tongue-in-cheek. Then later in the day I forgot about it. To think that for years RPI fans felt that we were at a disadvantage because we had Union as a travel partner. Well, whatever goes around comes around.
ADK is correct that the ECAC suffers because of a relatively low average competition level. If it is a concern of Union, then the first thing that the school should do is to increase the level of its OOC games. ECAC schools have in recent years gotten better players -- just not enough of them per team. League play will improve, but it takes time, and I suspect by then Union will be dragging the league down again.
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
. Apologies to anyone I offended and was certainly not how I intended it to come out.
The point I was trying to make is that it has been quite some time since the ECAC has had 4-5 national top-end teams in the same season, and this hurts not only the league strength-of-schedule but also in being prepared for the NCAA tournament. Cornell, RPI, Clarkson etc. probably know this better than anyone given how weak other teams in the league have been in the last 10-15 years.. with Union being a prime offender. Strong OOC schedules do help, but having 3-4 top 10 teams and another 3-4 in the top 25 would help even more. The "big 3" leagues get most of their SOS from playing each other in league games and the ECAC needs to get to that level too. The reason I listed those 4 programs (and could include Harvard too) is that they have all historically been the bellweather programs in ECAC and if Yale, Union and say Princeton can join them as elite programs, then the league may lose its EZAC reputation and get somewhere in the NCAAs. My saying that these programs need to improve was a poor choice of words and certainly unfair to Cornell & RPI based on even this past season's results.. my bad.
Hmmm.. obviously I didn't choose my words very well there did I.. probably what I get for posting late at night
. Apologies to anyone I offended and was certainly not how I intended it to come out.The point I was trying to make is that it has been quite some time since the ECAC has had 4-5 national top-end teams in the same season, and this hurts not only the league strength-of-schedule but also in being prepared for the NCAA tournament. Cornell, RPI, Clarkson etc. probably know this better than anyone given how weak other teams in the league have been in the last 10-15 years.. with Union being a prime offender. Strong OOC schedules do help, but having 3-4 top 10 teams and another 3-4 in the top 25 would help even more. The "big 3" leagues get most of their SOS from playing each other in league games and the ECAC needs to get to that level too. The reason I listed those 4 programs (and could include Harvard too) is that they have all historically been the bellweather programs in ECAC and if Yale, Union and say Princeton can join them as elite programs, then the league may lose its EZAC reputation and get somewhere in the NCAAs. My saying that these programs need to improve was a poor choice of words and certainly unfair to Cornell & RPI based on even this past season's results.. my bad.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
Some of the issue seems to be that the league is too competitive and everyone finishes in this huge cluster**** in the standings. The difference between 3rd and 6th was 2 points. The difference between 7th and 9th: 1. Even Yale and Union this year were neck and neck. When you look at those "big 3" leagues, you notice that there is a fairly easy to notice difference between all of the teams in terms of standings. We beat each other up to the point where not necessarily the best teams move on. Obviously that's the nature of sports, and that's why they play the games, but if any team can win on any night in our league, of course powerhouses in other leagues will beat us to a bloody pulp.
Hmmm.. obviously I didn't choose my words very well there did I.. probably what I get for posting late at night
The point I was trying to make is that it has been quite some time since the ECAC has had 4-5 national top-end teams in the same season, and this hurts not only the league strength-of-schedule but also in being prepared for the NCAA tournament. Cornell, RPI, Clarkson etc. probably know this better than anyone given how weak other teams in the league have been in the last 10-15 years.. with Union being a prime offender. Strong OOC schedules do help, but having 3-4 top 10 teams and another 3-4 in the top 25 would help even more. The "big 3" leagues get most of their SOS from playing each other in league games and the ECAC needs to get to that level too. The reason I listed those 4 programs (and could include Harvard too) is that they have all historically been the bellweather programs in ECAC and if Yale, Union and say Princeton can join them as elite programs, then the league may lose its EZAC reputation and get somewhere in the NCAAs. My saying that these programs need to improve was a poor choice of words and certainly unfair to Cornell & RPI based on even this past season's results.. my bad.
Some of the issue seems to be that the league is too competitive and everyone finishes in this huge cluster**** in the standings. The difference between 3rd and 6th was 2 points. The difference between 7th and 9th: 1. Even Yale and Union this year were neck and neck. When you look at those "big 3" leagues, you notice that there is a fairly easy to notice difference between all of the teams in terms of standings. We beat each other up to the point where not necessarily the best teams move on. Obviously that's the nature of sports, and that's why they play the games, but if any team can win on any night in our league, of course powerhouses in other leagues will beat us to a bloody pulp.
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
I can’t believe this but some of you folks are going to make me defend Nate. First of all I am an RPI fan and I don’t like Union or particularly care for Nate. I don’t wish the program or him any ill will; I just take the rivalry seriously. This is testament to where Nate has taken the program.
With that said, for anyone to criticize Nate and the performance of the team is crazy. He has taken your program from obscurity to national prominence. He has done a magnificent job with the resources he is given. Granted I don’t like the style (trap) but he knows how to win. For those of you who are whining about Nate, you might not have him to kick around much longer because I am sure that he is on the short list of available jobs.
I’m sure my good friend Kenny Schott will agree with my post. And just so you think I haven’t gone soft … please upgrade the bathrooms at your so-called rink and add a few more urinals and enough of the trap already.
To all my adoring Union fans, have a nice spring and summer. Peace.
I can’t believe this but some of you folks are going to make me defend Nate. First of all I am an RPI fan and I don’t like Union or particularly care for Nate. I don’t wish the program or him any ill will; I just take the rivalry seriously. This is testament to where Nate has taken the program.
With that said, for anyone to criticize Nate and the performance of the team is crazy. He has taken your program from obscurity to national prominence. He has done a magnificent job with the resources he is given. Granted I don’t like the style (trap) but he knows how to win. For those of you who are whining about Nate, you might not have him to kick around much longer because I am sure that he is on the short list of available jobs.
I’m sure my good friend Kenny Schott will agree with my post. And just so you think I haven’t gone soft … please upgrade the bathrooms at your so-called rink and add a few more urinals and enough of the trap already.
To all my adoring Union fans, have a nice spring and summer. Peace.
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
I don't think any Union fan would disagree that Nate Leaman is the best thing that ever happened to Union hockey, with the departure of 40% Roger perhaps being a not so close second. I think any negative feelings expressed here are just lingering disappointment over what might have been and not meant as criticism of our coach.
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
Ken Schott's blog indicates Rick Bennett is a finalist for the UMass Lowell job and that Nate Leaman is not. http://dailygazette.com/weblogs/sch...t-appears-to-be-finalist-for-umass-lowell-he/
Ken Schott's blog indicates Rick Bennett is a finalist for the UMass Lowell job and that Nate Leaman is not. http://dailygazette.com/weblogs/sch...t-appears-to-be-finalist-for-umass-lowell-he/
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
A little disclosure first...I'm an RPI die hard...with that said its not as hard for me to understand the post here as it is to some people... this forum in large part is a vehicle for venting and everyone from U had high hopes and expectations for the post season after the awesome regular season they had and a little frustration and venting is a good thing that means you care.Just like your climb to league respectability post season success is a process...remember the teams you meet in the NCAA tourney are not only stacked w/NHL calibur talent but also players that have been to the NCAA's every year of their career and have been there done that....they know what it takes to get it done...the important thing going forward is to get yourself and RPI for that fact to the dance on a regular basis and start learning how to be successful in these games....the U has just begun to play in games that matter...it will come !!!...As far as Leaman for COTY he is as worthy as anyone...remember COTY is subjective and who knows the coach at UAH with what he had to work with may have done the best job or Hakstool @ UND...sometimes its harder to win when you are expected to.....sooooo enjoy the summer and looking forward to RPI v U next season it should be a war again....game on !!!!!!!
A little disclosure first...I'm an RPI die hard...with that said its not as hard for me to understand the post here as it is to some people... this forum in large part is a vehicle for venting and everyone from U had high hopes and expectations for the post season after the awesome regular season they had and a little frustration and venting is a good thing that means you care.Just like your climb to league respectability post season success is a process...remember the teams you meet in the NCAA tourney are not only stacked w/NHL calibur talent but also players that have been to the NCAA's every year of their career and have been there done that....they know what it takes to get it done...the important thing going forward is to get yourself and RPI for that fact to the dance on a regular basis and start learning how to be successful in these games....the U has just begun to play in games that matter...it will come !!!...As far as Leaman for COTY he is as worthy as anyone...remember COTY is subjective and who knows the coach at UAH with what he had to work with may have done the best job or Hakstool @ UND...sometimes its harder to win when you are expected to.....sooooo enjoy the summer and looking forward to RPI v U next season it should be a war again....game on !!!!!!!
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
I found this article posted on the RPI thread. It references an OOC game at UNH next season.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110401/SPORTS/104010380/-1/NEWSMAP
I found this article posted on the RPI thread. It references an OOC game at UNH next season.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110401/SPORTS/104010380/-1/NEWSMAP
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
Agreed - I think everyone here needs to relax. I don't think there was ever any intent on the "critics" of Nate Leaman to insist that he's not good enough to be Union's coach. It was simply a small (perhaps constructive) criticism that he may not have the right coaching mindset in the postseason.
Agreed - I think everyone here needs to relax. I don't think there was ever any intent on the "critics" of Nate Leaman to insist that he's not good enough to be Union's coach. It was simply a small (perhaps constructive) criticism that he may not have the right coaching mindset in the postseason.
CollegeHCKYfan2323
New member
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
Man I hope Nate doesn't read these threads or else I wouldn't blame him looking at other jobs that are open, Nate is the best coach in the ECAC if not in the country. Union ran into a very hot Colgate team that no one could have saw moving on to the ECAC semi's, they also ran into a hot tender against UMD but when its all said and done Nate got those boys ready to play and they team did not execute to its potential. This was the greatest season in Union history its a small step and I know it stings because we all wanted to be the cinderella story and make the Frozen Four but this was still a dream to even make the tourny.
Man I hope Nate doesn't read these threads or else I wouldn't blame him looking at other jobs that are open, Nate is the best coach in the ECAC if not in the country. Union ran into a very hot Colgate team that no one could have saw moving on to the ECAC semi's, they also ran into a hot tender against UMD but when its all said and done Nate got those boys ready to play and they team did not execute to its potential. This was the greatest season in Union history its a small step and I know it stings because we all wanted to be the cinderella story and make the Frozen Four but this was still a dream to even make the tourny.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"
I wouldn't worry too much about the "Fire Nate Leaman" talk; most schools that don't win national championships (at least in recent enough memory) will have their dissenters. Heck, it's only been 8 years for the Gophers, and look at all the Don Lucia talk. Coach Leaman has done wonders for you guys, and I think the only gripe I'd have about him is the whining after losing to us (not that we don't like it
).
I wouldn't worry too much about the "Fire Nate Leaman" talk; most schools that don't win national championships (at least in recent enough memory) will have their dissenters. Heck, it's only been 8 years for the Gophers, and look at all the Don Lucia talk. Coach Leaman has done wonders for you guys, and I think the only gripe I'd have about him is the whining after losing to us (not that we don't like it
).