Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

[hockeydad09]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

College-Women | NY Hockey Online - Part 6



nyhockeyonline.com/category/college/college-women/page/6/
Aug 20, 2014 - ... was made today by head coach Claudia Asano Barcomb. ... hockey team, signed a four-year contract extension through the 2017-18 season, ...

Sorry folks, it looks like two more years on her contract!

 

[shelfit]

College-Women | NY Hockey Online - Part 6



nyhockeyonline.com/category/college/college-women/page/6/
Aug 20, 2014 - ... was made today by head coach Claudia Asano Barcomb. ... hockey team, signed a four-year contract extension through the 2017-18 season, ...

Sorry folks, it looks like two more years on her contract!

It's the Union AD that should be apologizing. I still say next season will be her last. Another abysmal year isn't going to give the AD any choice. The biggest thing is she should be stepping down on her own right now out of respect to the sport, her players, and the program at Union in general. Is she not smart enough to know by now that she just isn't capable of getting this team to any sort of respectable level of competitiveness?! Her years there have already proven this fact. All she's doing is collecting a paycheck that she honestly no longer deserves and she knows it and that's just wrong. Shame on her for simply lingering on there with no hope of improving the team. It's a very sad situation for everyone.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

It's the Union AD that should be apologizing. I still say next season will be her last. Another abysmal year isn't going to give the AD any choice. The biggest thing is she should be stepping down on her own right now out of respect to the sport, her players, and the program at Union in general. Is she not smart enough to know by now that she just isn't capable of getting this team to any sort of respectable level of competitiveness?! Her years there have already proven this fact. All she's doing is collecting a paycheck that she honestly no longer deserves and she knows it and that's just wrong. Shame on her for simply lingering on there with no hope of improving the team. It's a very sad situation for everyone.

Agree. But if Union is willing to keep and pay her (and I have no idea how much), she probably is reluctant to step down on her own. That would be a tacit admission of failure on her part and no coach likes to admit s\he can't run their own ship.

Probably the only way to get her to leave of her own volition would be for the players to openly boycott trying out for the team. McLaughlin would have no choice at that point but to have that 'mutual' termination conversation with her. Other than that, she stays no matter what the record.

 

[pucko]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

It's the Union AD that should be apologizing. I still say next season will be her last. Another abysmal year isn't going to give the AD any choice. The biggest thing is she should be stepping down on her own right now out of respect to the sport, her players, and the program at Union in general. Is she not smart enough to know by now that she just isn't capable of getting this team to any sort of respectable level of competitiveness?! Her years there have already proven this fact. All she's doing is collecting a paycheck that she honestly no longer deserves and she knows it and that's just wrong. Shame on her for simply lingering on there with no hope of improving the team. It's a very sad situation for everyone.

shelfit, you said this earlier in the thread: You're repeating what many of us have already said before. Union will not be a competitive team in D1 no matter who the coach is even if it's Brad Frost, they have higher end D3 players, and the school/athletics department needs to decide if they care about this program. Was the previous coach fired or did he leave on his own? They don't have a choice but to fire her after next season otherwise they'll lose the program because if they sign her to a new contract that will really send the message that they don't care about the program and even the higher end D3 recruits will stop coming. Why go to Union to be on a D3 level team when you can go to a NESCAC school and actually compete for something like a playoff spot, a conference title, and a spot in the NCAA tournament?!

What is the level of 'respectable competitiveness' then? .500? Make playoffs? You said yourself that they won't be a competitive D1 team, yet you're basically demanding that Barcomb step down. You can't have it both ways. You can't say that she's a terrible coach because they lose and then turn around and say that no one can make that program competitive at D1, not even Brad Frost.

 

[shelfit]

Pretty sure I can say whatever I want, just the same as everyone else. Thanks for your contribution to this thread.

 

[ushockey]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

pucko and any others who feel Union can never have a competitive D1 women's hockey team should look at the history of sports and programs that not only became competitive but champions. The following points are what I feel are necessary for the Union women's hockey team to be competitive.

1. The coach must be an excellent teacher who can develop the skills and systems necessary for her team to improve every game. This will require patience (but not a decade!) as this is not an overnight thing. Development should take priority over short term winning. Play all your hard working players while teaching them during the game. What better time to teach situational awareness? This may mean the coach will miss parts of the game while working with players who just came off the ice.
2. The coach must be an excellent recruiter who will search to find the best available players. Since Union doesn't have the advantages of the "top" schools it will require searching with potential as a key consideration. They need to find players with a strong work ethic, athletic ability, and desire to win who may be newer to the sport or might have had weaker coaching. They can find these players by questioning high school and prep school coaches to find these players. Furthermore they should also scout potential players at boys games where there is a girl playing on the team. Why anyone would overlook these players is beyond me. They can then develop these players.

 

[ushockey]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

3. The administration must expect the team to be successful and provide the recruiting funds and other support necessary.

Union's men's team has a very competitive reputation and it is a shame that the AD is saying that the women's teams losing is OK by his giving the coach another extension. This sexist inaction is an embarrassment to the players, students, faculty, community, and administration.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

pucko and any others who feel Union can never have a competitive D1 women's hockey team should look at the history of sports and programs that not only became competitive but champions. The following points are what I feel are necessary for the Union women's hockey team to be competitive.

1. The coach must be an excellent teacher who can develop the skills and systems necessary for her team to improve every game. This will require patience (but not a decade!) as this is not an overnight thing. Development should take priority over short term winning. Play all your hard working players while teaching them during the game. What better time to teach situational awareness? This may mean the coach will miss parts of the game while working with players who just came off the ice.
2. The coach must be an excellent recruiter who will search to find the best available players. Since Union doesn't have the advantages of the "top" schools it will require searching with potential as a key consideration. They need to find players with a strong work ethic, athletic ability, and desire to win who may be newer to the sport or might have had weaker coaching. They can find these players by questioning high school and prep school coaches to find these players. Furthermore they should also scout potential players at boys games where there is a girl playing on the team. Why anyone would overlook these players is beyond me. They can then develop these players.

A couple of observations in response to your post:

1. Regarding your first point. Coaches don't really 'teach' in game unless you are referring to in game adjustments such as altering lines or D pairings to match up better with the other team. Most of the teaching and game prep takes place during the week at practice. I asked the Harvard players about this prior to last season and they confirmed that even between periods, the coaches don't use video to point out mistakes. They have a list of about 3 or 4 things they want the team to focus on and then they turn them loose.

2. Regarding your second point, I would add academic ability to your list of qualities. Union is academically stringent in its requirements and therefore, the pool of players who can be admitted is far less than Minnesota, Wisconsin or BC. Add to that, they have to go up against the Ivies inside the ECAC. I agree that no stone should be left unturned to find better players but you won't find them necessarily on teams with weak coaching or that they are new to the game. That won't help Union become a stronger program. You have to look overseas, in non-traditional high school girls programs in the US, developmental camps and post secondary prep schools where a rising star could get more ice time at Union than at BC or Harvard.

 

[ushockey]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

Skate79, Thank you for your observations.

1. While it is certainly true that some coaches don't teach during a game it is also true that some of the best do. I have never regarded Harvard's Stone as a great coach so I certainly wouldn't rely on her players to tell me what a coach should or shouldn't do. Additionally Stone always has first choice from most available recruits so she may not need to do as much coaching as many other coaches with weaker and especially newer players who haven't received as much good coaching.

2. Academically qualified students are just as likely to be found on teams with weak coaching or among newer players as not so this does not disqualify any of the ways I suggested could be used to improve your talent pool. Your idea of recruiting over seas is certainly worth considering but I'm afraid may require a large recruiting budget in most cases. Yet if you could combine a recruiting trip with an overseas trip for some other reason it may be be done quite economically. Prep schools and developmental camps are worth looking at but I think these areas are already heavily recruited. Furthermore as you and many others have pointed out Union will not be as competitive recruiting as the Ivies or scholarship schools so they should be open to seldom used or unused places.

 

[ARM]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

Coaches don't really 'teach' in game unless you are referring to in game adjustments such as altering lines or D pairings to match up better with the other team.

I see coaches doing this all of the time. Players come off after a shift, maybe even a shift where their line scored, and the coaches point out where the puck should be moved or the spot to which the player should skate in a certain situation. It might just be a conversation with the head coach or an assistant about what the player's thought process was for a particular decision. I've seen a lot of staffs do a lot of coaching within the game.

 

[shelfit]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

"Coaches don't really 'teach' in game unless you are referring to in game adjustments such as altering lines or D pairings to match up better with the other team."

Wow, I'd say the complete opposite is true from what I've seen over the years. The best feedback is right after a shift....what choices were or weren't made, what other options might also have been available, general situational awareness tips, adjustments in positioning in all zones with and without the puck.......you name it.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

I see coaches doing this all of the time. Players come off after a shift, maybe even a shift where their line scored, and the coaches point out where the puck should be moved or the spot to which the player should skate in a certain situation. It might just be a conversation with the head coach or an assistant about what the player's thought process was for a particular decision. I've seen a lot of staffs do a lot of coaching within the game.

This may be a question of semantics but what I am referring to isn't a quick conversation on the bench. The teaching I'm referring to that happens during the week is something akin to drills that emphasize positioning, stick work, systems approaches and other facets of the game that you can't 'teach' during live game action because line shifts are happening every 30 seconds or so. Agree that coaches talk to players on the bench to point out something that could have happened differently but the real 'teaching' part happens during the week. Just my two cents.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

"Coaches don't really 'teach' in game unless you are referring to in game adjustments such as altering lines or D pairings to match up better with the other team."

Wow, I'd say the complete opposite is true from what I've seen over the years. The best feedback is right after a shift....what choices were or weren't made, what other options might also have been available, general situational awareness tips, adjustments in positioning in all zones with and without the puck.......you name it.

Right well you're sorta making my point. See my response to ARM. I'm not disputing that coaches ignore mistakes or opportunities in game. There just a lot of time to explain unless there is a timeout because of line changes, PKs, or power plays. Stuff happens as you know at the blink of an eye in hockey and that's one reason we love the game so much.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

Skate79, Thank you for your observations.

1. While it is certainly true that some coaches don't teach during a game it is also true that some of the best do. I have never regarded Harvard's Stone as a great coach so I certainly wouldn't rely on her players to tell me what a coach should or shouldn't do. Additionally Stone always has first choice from most available recruits so she may not need to do as much coaching as many other coaches with weaker and especially newer players who haven't received as much good coaching.

2. Academically qualified students are just as likely to be found on teams with weak coaching or among newer players as not so this does not disqualify any of the ways I suggested could be used to improve your talent pool. Your idea of recruiting over seas is certainly worth considering but I'm afraid may require a large recruiting budget in most cases. Yet if you could combine a recruiting trip with an overseas trip for some other reason it may be be done quite economically. Prep schools and developmental camps are worth looking at but I think these areas are already heavily recruited. Furthermore as you and many others have pointed out Union will not be as competitive recruiting as the Ivies or scholarship schools so they should be open to seldom used or unused places.

No problem. Happy to comment. You can see my response to ARM and shelfit to better understand my thinking along the lines of teaching moments during the game. I'm not disagreeing that coaches don't try and point out mistakes. But live action games are not conducive to real 'teaching' opportunities for players to fully grasp nuances of the game and take their games to the next level. Which is how I interpreted your original post.

I agree that recruiting overseas is a challenge. UMD has done it successfully for years but it does take a commitment of funding for the recruiting budget to make that happen. That or you have to have alumni living overseas who love hockey and are willing to help out by scouting and recommending players. Harvard has that kind of pipeline and we've landed players like Liza Rybkina using those connections.

 

[ARM]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

This may be a question of semantics but what I am referring to isn't a quick conversation on the bench.

Okay, but that's what ushockey meant with the original comment. The point that sometimes the coach will miss a piece of the game because of it is true, as more than once a coach has admitted he/she missed a goal because of teaching that was going on at the time. Even though these in-game teaching moments may be brief, they are a vital piece of the player's hockey education. It doesn't replace watching video, practice drills, and all the rest, but it is a valuable opportunity.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

Harvard has that kind of pipeline and we've landed players like Liza Rybkina using those connections.

Pretty sure Ryabkina was playing over here for several years before she landed at Harvard. She was "scouted" during a boys tourney in Beantown when she was still very young (15 or so ?). She played for a Prep school and the Polar Bears.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

Pretty sure Ryabkina was playing over here for several years before she landed at Harvard. She was "scouted" during a boys tourney in Beantown when she was still very young (15 or so ?). She played for a Prep school and the Polar Bears.

Here you go...cool article from the past.... http://womenshockeylife.com/around_the_rink_view.cfm?RinkId=3&yr=2011

 

[Skate79]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

Pretty sure Ryabkina was playing over here for several years before she landed at Harvard. She was "scouted" during a boys tourney in Beantown when she was still very young (15 or so ?). She played for a Prep school and the Polar Bears.

What you don't know is that Gene Kinasewich's son Rob was the one who first knew of Liza because he and his dad are of Ukrainian decent and Gene was active in helping kids from his homeland. Liza was one of those kids and they recommended that Katey reach out to Liza. And how I know this is because Rob and I used to live in the same town and we bumped into each other from time to time doing errands.

Not everything is printed or posted online - there are back stories that tie it together. That is what I mean't about a pipeline. Ask me sometime about how Stevie Martins wound up at Harvard. It is a funny and cool story. And there are a lot more like that I'm sure from every school that recruits athletes for their programs.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

What you don't know is that Gene Kinasewich's son Rob was the one who first knew of Liza because he and his dad are of Ukrainian decent and Gene was active in helping kids from his homeland. Liza was one of those kids and they recommended that Katey reach out to Liza. And how I know this is because Rob and I used to live in the same town and we bumped into each other from time to time doing errands.

Not everything is printed or posted online - there are back stories that tie it together.

Cool, thanks for that insider info. All I remember is being impressed with her skill set the first time I saw her play when she was with the Polar Bears.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread

Okay, but that's what ushockey meant with the original comment. The point that sometimes the coach will miss a piece of the game because of it is true, as more than once a coach has admitted he/she missed a goal because of teaching that was going on at the time. Even though these in-game teaching moments may be brief, they are a vital piece of the player's hockey education. It doesn't replace watching video, practice drills, and all the rest, but it is a valuable opportunity.

I agree with what you are saying. I didn't mean to diminish the idea that in game conversations were secondary in any way. Every opportunity to find an edge is important especially where two teams are evenly matched. And I can imagine that at Union, a lot of that has to happen because the skill level just isn't there.