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Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread
- Thread starter rdf8585
- Start date
Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread
Lost in the shuffle is that ultimately, it's the kids who are paying the price in all of this.
This is not the college hockey experience these players dreamed of and worked for their whole lives.
Lost in the shuffle is that ultimately, it's the kids who are paying the price in all of this.
This is not the college hockey experience these players dreamed of and worked for their whole lives.
Probably not. But they signed after doing their research of the program and should have had a good idea of what was coming.
Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread
Yeah, I have tried to be supportive of the Union program but after having seen a couple of their games this year I have to say that it is tough to imagine how bad they will be when Tomaselli graduates.
Yeah, I have tried to be supportive of the Union program but after having seen a couple of their games this year I have to say that it is tough to imagine how bad they will be when Tomaselli graduates.
Let's be realistic here. These players aren't exactly the cream of the crop for D1. How many other D1 teams would they be able to make? Not many at all. Most of them should be playing D3 and that's the main problem. This should be a D3 team. No disagreement that she's not a good coach but Union is a tough draw for most families from a financial point of view. Someone's going to say that the men's team is good so the women's team should be good too but you can't compare the two sports especially at a very expensive school that obviously can't offer athletic scholarships because they are a D3 school. That means if you're quite a good player you're going to have many more affordable options at schools where the women's hockey teams are already much better than Union. It's not a new problem and the next coach is also going to struggle to get wins there too. That's just the way it's going to be for that team. This team needs to return to D3 status as soon as possible. That's really the only good solution for the players and coaches and for the ECAC too.
giwan
Really??!!
Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread
Are you saying Union is not capable of recruiting D1 players or not enough D1 players? There are not enough of D1 players out there? Are there players out there that are D1 just not willing to play for Union? There are benefits to NOT offering an athletic scholly if they are able to get enough aide. Aren't the men playing by the same rules, if not what is different? What women's program would you move up to D1, for Title IX implications?
Are you saying Union is not capable of recruiting D1 players or not enough D1 players? There are not enough of D1 players out there? Are there players out there that are D1 just not willing to play for Union? There are benefits to NOT offering an athletic scholly if they are able to get enough aide. Aren't the men playing by the same rules, if not what is different? What women's program would you move up to D1, for Title IX implications?
Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread
Yes please, lets be realistic here. Hockey is a game that you don't have to have the best players to win, at least occasionally. This is due in large part to it being a team game with the important word being TEAM. There is also luck involved which contrary to some goes both ways. A streak this long without a win can not be placed on the old excuse of just weak players. The head coach has to be responsible for her team building, recruiting, hockey systems, and skills development. While I admittedly only go to a couple of their games a year there are competitive women on that team capable of winning at least some of their games. In fact I believe a good coach at Union would win 25% of their games with the current players because they have skilled players on the team who can be developed into a winning team.
Most everyone who has followed women's hockey for the last twenty years will I'm sure agree, that the skill level in women's hockey has been improving by leaps and bounds. As more and more women players are involved and get opportunities the old saw of "there just aren't enough skilled players to play at the Division One level" is no longer valid. Even those teams that do not always get the best recruits should be able to develop their players with good coaching into competitive players by their junior or senior years. After all they get players who are 17 and 18 years old not 20 or 21 years old like the men's teams.
Go Union!
Yes please, lets be realistic here. Hockey is a game that you don't have to have the best players to win, at least occasionally. This is due in large part to it being a team game with the important word being TEAM. There is also luck involved which contrary to some goes both ways. A streak this long without a win can not be placed on the old excuse of just weak players. The head coach has to be responsible for her team building, recruiting, hockey systems, and skills development. While I admittedly only go to a couple of their games a year there are competitive women on that team capable of winning at least some of their games. In fact I believe a good coach at Union would win 25% of their games with the current players because they have skilled players on the team who can be developed into a winning team.
Most everyone who has followed women's hockey for the last twenty years will I'm sure agree, that the skill level in women's hockey has been improving by leaps and bounds. As more and more women players are involved and get opportunities the old saw of "there just aren't enough skilled players to play at the Division One level" is no longer valid. Even those teams that do not always get the best recruits should be able to develop their players with good coaching into competitive players by their junior or senior years. After all they get players who are 17 and 18 years old not 20 or 21 years old like the men's teams.
Go Union!
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Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread
Ex-Union goalie Shenae Lundberg became part of NWHL history on Wednesday: https://t.co/87tOVI3NCu
Ex-Union goalie Shenae Lundberg became part of NWHL history on Wednesday: https://t.co/87tOVI3NCu
Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread
Am I the only one who gets the sense that Shelfit is dreaming that he might one day be a hockey coach in the NCAA? Seems totally focussed on firing coaches and totally uninterested in other aspects of the game.
Am I the only one who gets the sense that Shelfit is dreaming that he might one day be a hockey coach in the NCAA? Seems totally focussed on firing coaches and totally uninterested in other aspects of the game.
Go to the RPI thread and you'll see my most recent post. I'm not ecac guru. I have been critical of both coaches but I've also complimented the RPI coach after he made some lineup changes that obviously had to be made and have rsulted in a much more competitive team, and I have stated on several occasions the problems at Union are much more than just the coach even though I do agree she's not a very good coach. I don't know who this new guy is but I agree he seems to have some sort of personal vendetta against these two coaches.
giwan
Really??!!
Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread
Do fans find these to schools to be similar in all aspects? ie commitment to sport, history, future, money, type of player they could potentially get, etc?
Do fans find these to schools to be similar in all aspects? ie commitment to sport, history, future, money, type of player they could potentially get, etc?
Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread
I liked ushockey’s 26 Jan comments. One of the things I’ve seen missing from Union’s game throughout this coach’s regime is her inability to draft the right players and then build a team on their strengths. It's not because the players Union needs aren't out there, or that Union can't give scholarships. It's because she doesn't have a clue who to recruit. This came to mind again today while reading the NY Times articles on Scott Gomez’s decision not to retire, but instead to play for the AHL Hershey Bears:
NYT 1 Feb 16
…Hall of Fame forward Adam Oates … sees Gomez’s quest this way: If Jaromir Jagr, who turns 44 on Feb. 15, can thrive with the Florida Panthers despite not being the player he once was, Gomez [36 years old] can find an N.H.L. spot to land — ideally as a third-line, 14-minute-a-game center who can direct a team’s power play.
“I think Gomer’s still got that skill,” Oates said Sunday. “If he plays the right minutes and is put in the right situation, he can help somebody. There are parts of his game where he’s still elite. He’s an elite passer. You’ve got to get that edge back, that conditioning back. In another week or so, he can reach another level of skating, and hopefully an N.H.L. team will notice.”
Gomez’s last game with St. Louis was on Dec. 27. He signed a professional tryout agreement with the Bears on Jan. 14 and played his first game with the team two days later. The Bears have not lost in regulation with Gomez. His coach in Hershey, Troy Mann, said Gomez played his best game Saturday, displaying his vision, his “skill set” and his playmaking ability.
“It’s very difficult for an N.H.L. player to come down here, because in the N.H.L., you know if you make a play, the guy is going to be there,” Mann said, referring to a teammate who receives a pass. Mann, a second-year coach for the Bears who played for 14 teams in his career, all in the minors, added: “That’s not always a guarantee in the American League. So that’s a difficult adjustment.”
I agree with the many posters who say Union can’t recruit the top level goal scorers. I just don’t think they should be going after them. Union has proven that there are quality goaltenders that will come to the school. If Union could recruit highly competent but not first-pick forwards out of U19 players, but then target the middle and defensive players who fed those scorers (Mann’s “third-line, 14-minute-a-game" [players] ), then Union might have a hope of rebuilding. In fact, I think Union has been getting some of those players. This coach just doesn’t have a clue about how to construct a team around them. Instead she puts on the ice the best five or six players she can, and depends on them to do everything, burning them out by the shift, the game, and the season. This also explains the off-balance scoring stats for the team.
See what Mann said in the Times story; what Union needs is two lines of defensive players who can gain the puck in their own zone, break it out with quality passes to forwards who know how to move out of the zone, and then follow the play to seal the puck into the opponents zone for a meaningful length of time. That is a coaching strategy that requires smart recruiting, effective practices, confident lines, and school & fan support. Union now has none of that, and will never have it under this coach; she has shown that by her extraordinarily long unproductive record. If her contract is renewed again, I think the clear message is that Union’s AD and President maintain a women’s team only to gain Title IX qualification for the men’s team. And all three conspirators –coach, AD & President—should be called to task for that insult to the players, the school, and women athletes generally.
When the current and past players under this coach successfully graduate, at least they have a Union degree. I feel the most for those players who have quit or been forced from the team because of the failure of the coaching staff.
Go Union!
I liked ushockey’s 26 Jan comments. One of the things I’ve seen missing from Union’s game throughout this coach’s regime is her inability to draft the right players and then build a team on their strengths. It's not because the players Union needs aren't out there, or that Union can't give scholarships. It's because she doesn't have a clue who to recruit. This came to mind again today while reading the NY Times articles on Scott Gomez’s decision not to retire, but instead to play for the AHL Hershey Bears:
NYT 1 Feb 16
…Hall of Fame forward Adam Oates … sees Gomez’s quest this way: If Jaromir Jagr, who turns 44 on Feb. 15, can thrive with the Florida Panthers despite not being the player he once was, Gomez [36 years old] can find an N.H.L. spot to land — ideally as a third-line, 14-minute-a-game center who can direct a team’s power play.
“I think Gomer’s still got that skill,” Oates said Sunday. “If he plays the right minutes and is put in the right situation, he can help somebody. There are parts of his game where he’s still elite. He’s an elite passer. You’ve got to get that edge back, that conditioning back. In another week or so, he can reach another level of skating, and hopefully an N.H.L. team will notice.”
Gomez’s last game with St. Louis was on Dec. 27. He signed a professional tryout agreement with the Bears on Jan. 14 and played his first game with the team two days later. The Bears have not lost in regulation with Gomez. His coach in Hershey, Troy Mann, said Gomez played his best game Saturday, displaying his vision, his “skill set” and his playmaking ability.
“It’s very difficult for an N.H.L. player to come down here, because in the N.H.L., you know if you make a play, the guy is going to be there,” Mann said, referring to a teammate who receives a pass. Mann, a second-year coach for the Bears who played for 14 teams in his career, all in the minors, added: “That’s not always a guarantee in the American League. So that’s a difficult adjustment.”
I agree with the many posters who say Union can’t recruit the top level goal scorers. I just don’t think they should be going after them. Union has proven that there are quality goaltenders that will come to the school. If Union could recruit highly competent but not first-pick forwards out of U19 players, but then target the middle and defensive players who fed those scorers (Mann’s “third-line, 14-minute-a-game" [players] ), then Union might have a hope of rebuilding. In fact, I think Union has been getting some of those players. This coach just doesn’t have a clue about how to construct a team around them. Instead she puts on the ice the best five or six players she can, and depends on them to do everything, burning them out by the shift, the game, and the season. This also explains the off-balance scoring stats for the team.
See what Mann said in the Times story; what Union needs is two lines of defensive players who can gain the puck in their own zone, break it out with quality passes to forwards who know how to move out of the zone, and then follow the play to seal the puck into the opponents zone for a meaningful length of time. That is a coaching strategy that requires smart recruiting, effective practices, confident lines, and school & fan support. Union now has none of that, and will never have it under this coach; she has shown that by her extraordinarily long unproductive record. If her contract is renewed again, I think the clear message is that Union’s AD and President maintain a women’s team only to gain Title IX qualification for the men’s team. And all three conspirators –coach, AD & President—should be called to task for that insult to the players, the school, and women athletes generally.
When the current and past players under this coach successfully graduate, at least they have a Union degree. I feel the most for those players who have quit or been forced from the team because of the failure of the coaching staff.
Go Union!
Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread
If Union loses today, I think they will be the first women's D-1 program to finish 0 for the season. I'm pretty sure that Jeff Kampersal, Princeton's coach, will remind his team of the potential embarrassment of losing this game. While i have defended Claudia Asano-Barcomb in the past, I'm reversing course and recommending that the powers that be at Union, if they care about being a competitive D-1 program, remove her as head coach and find someone else. That is if they care. Perhaps a move to D-3 is a better way to go. Either way, something has to be done because it's clear they aren't making progress.
If Union loses today, I think they will be the first women's D-1 program to finish 0 for the season. I'm pretty sure that Jeff Kampersal, Princeton's coach, will remind his team of the potential embarrassment of losing this game. While i have defended Claudia Asano-Barcomb in the past, I'm reversing course and recommending that the powers that be at Union, if they care about being a competitive D-1 program, remove her as head coach and find someone else. That is if they care. Perhaps a move to D-3 is a better way to go. Either way, something has to be done because it's clear they aren't making progress.
I've been saying for a while now that a move to D3 is the best plan to follow for this program's future best interests. At the same time they also need to let her go after this season. There's really no choice at this point in time. At least at D3 they would be able to beat 0-17-0 Daniel Webster College, a first year program with something like 8 players on the team right now.
giwan
Really??!!
Have you noticed their previous D3 record? What would they move up to D1?
giwan
Really??!!
Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2015-16 thread
The D3 history was not exactly stellar.
If they pull women's hockey from D1 what sport will be moved up to replace it? ie Title IX implications
The D3 history was not exactly stellar.
If they pull women's hockey from D1 what sport will be moved up to replace it? ie Title IX implications