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UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
- Thread starter HockeyRef
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Darius
Go 'cats!
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
As one who follows the recruiting thread very casually, I am curious about Gildon, Maas and CK. Casual thread perusal over the past year leaves the impression that we were going to be skating a D III freshman class. What's up with these players?
Agreed.
Darius
Go 'cats!
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
Disagree. Many empty seats interspersed in the middle sections. A few students interspersed in the side sections. Many students off to party before the end of the second period. On the plus(?) side, I think I saw several non-student beer drinking fans who might not be at a sans beer UNH game.
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Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
Hoping - hoping - to make it tonight to catch the "Champions of December" in midseason form.
Is it safe to assume that Colgate's goalie is Bruce Racine (Jr.?), son of the all-time NU great?
Hoping - hoping - to make it tonight to catch the "Champions of December" in midseason form.
Is it safe to assume that Colgate's goalie is Bruce Racine (Jr.?), son of the all-time NU great?
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
No, his name is just a coincidence....father's name is Richard. Hope to see you tonight Chuck!
Hoping - hoping - to make it tonight to catch the "Champions of December" in midseason form.
Is it safe to assume that Colgate's goalie is Bruce Racine (Jr.?), son of the all-time NU great?
No, his name is just a coincidence....father's name is Richard. Hope to see you tonight Chuck!
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
Preview of UNH Freshman Defenders With Mike Souza
Preview of UNH Freshman Forwards With Mike Souza
"Neutral Zone, a top amateur hockey scouting service, ranked the 2017-18 UNH recruiting class as the 8th highest in all of Division I hockey utilizing their measurement of overall quality of recruits. Neutral Zone rated the UNH frosh an average score of 3.93 Stars on a 5-Star scale - a higher overall quality score than all Hockey East programs except Boston University (4.22) and Boston College (4.05). Two UNH freshmen were awarded ratings of 4 stars or above - Max Gildon (4.75 Stars) and Charlie Kelleher (4.25 Stars). On their weighted, algorithm point system, Neutral Zone rated UNH as the 14th best recruiting class in Division I."
Preview of UNH Freshman Defenders With Mike Souza
Preview of UNH Freshman Forwards With Mike Souza
"Neutral Zone, a top amateur hockey scouting service, ranked the 2017-18 UNH recruiting class as the 8th highest in all of Division I hockey utilizing their measurement of overall quality of recruits. Neutral Zone rated the UNH frosh an average score of 3.93 Stars on a 5-Star scale - a higher overall quality score than all Hockey East programs except Boston University (4.22) and Boston College (4.05). Two UNH freshmen were awarded ratings of 4 stars or above - Max Gildon (4.75 Stars) and Charlie Kelleher (4.25 Stars). On their weighted, algorithm point system, Neutral Zone rated UNH as the 14th best recruiting class in Division I."
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Loves it.
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
Yes, and Colorado College, next week's opponent, is ranked 3rd!
The PWR doesn't make much sense early in the season.
Yes, and Colorado College, next week's opponent, is ranked 3rd!
The PWR doesn't make much sense early in the season.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
It's like reading a 'Bizzaro World' comic book! (am dating myself here folks)
It's like reading a 'Bizzaro World' comic book! (am dating myself here folks)
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
Mike, great articles...thanks!
Question - When commenting about James Miller, did Souza actually say "to be continued", or are you saying that article itself "will be continued"?
Mike, great articles...thanks!
Question - When commenting about James Miller, did Souza actually say "to be continued", or are you saying that article itself "will be continued"?
NCAA watcher
Registered User
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
Not sure we saw this year's class as DIII. Kelleher was an obvious pick, given his connection to the program. He was a top recruit, at age 16 selected to the National Team tryouts, and even though he was just outside the Tyler K./full blue chippah level, his play was always superior.
Gildon was an elite 15 year old, rated as a potential first rounder, and Wisconsin jumped on him early. However, he had a weaker first year with the National Team, and Wisconsin's new coach essentially wanted his own kids, so cut a lot of the recruits, and it appears with Gildon was lukewarm. Gildon sensed that as the November early signing period came around, and although it was thought he might remain (http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/...cle_6dc047e5-d7d1-5146-bb61-d9acd809891b.html) he decided to decommit. His play really picked up, and Mike Souza deserves full marks for being able to recruit him. A bit of luck he came free later in the game, but that still left 30 other teams that could have convinced him to come. Mike apparently made a great sales pitch, and we're fortunate. He was a recruiting, rather than discovery, credit.
Maass falls into the other category. He was significantly overlooked going into his senior year, so had no solid offers. Souza and Stewart spotted him. ("His was kind of a unique situation. He went out to Fairbanks (Alaska) in the fall came back to Elk River, went back to Fairbanks, so I think that's a testament to his willingness to want to be a hockey player, and academically a really strong student, so there was a lot of things for us to like about his game, a big kid, moves the puck well. Coach Stewart saw him in the NAHL Showcase. Glenn had first seen him before I did. We always try to cross, and sometimes you can't. So Glenn obviously did a great job of identifying Benton Maass. And so we had him on a visit.") He is a top student who wanted to go to school as a true freshman, and UNH had a spot, they got a really good player who just kept developing. Friday's story says he is on a partial academic scholarship, and you can tell from his interviews that he will be a credit to UNH. I thought his play and poise is near that of Gildon, its just his shot wasn't bar down, but bar up.
So, to your point, I think we knew Gildon and Kelleher were top recruits, and even though not a top recruit at the time he committed, by the summer it was likely he would be an impact kid.
The angst you are referencing really is whether the process that led to this years' class is sustainable. In short, does a team have to recruit top kids vs. being able to identify the underrecruited kids. The overwhelming approach by top programs is to recruit compared to identify, and even the UNH class, Kelleher is the usual model, as he was recruited at 15, like most blue chippers. Gildon was a blue chipper who luckily freed up. That happens enough where a team can "get lucky" but really, also do a good job in re-recruting to take advantage of that -- teams like Penn State, Quinn, etc. are the usual destinations for those kids. Or hope that a late bloomer like Maass surfaces each year.
Going forward, the UNH pipeline, sans Commesso, is exclusively kids who were not really recruited but selected. They seem to be on a cycle, judging from Miller and Maass, of going to the junior showcase tournaments in September, and then getting them on campus. Perhaps we'll see some news soon -- of course we will have to, given that they have three important spots to fill for next year.
But underlying this all is that the most critical aspect of getting those is positive results that you can sell as a turnaround, so this fast start is hopefully something those potential recruits saw. It's all about momentum, and if Gildon's brother joins, it sends a message that Max is happy with his choice. The Mass and NE market is picked clean for 01 and 02, but I personally would be happier to see recruiting success that reflects that the community sees UNH as appealing. They can still recruit if they can get the BC kids for that age, like Sjvekosky, Prokup or Ahac, then they start moving in the right direction.
Not sure we saw this year's class as DIII. Kelleher was an obvious pick, given his connection to the program. He was a top recruit, at age 16 selected to the National Team tryouts, and even though he was just outside the Tyler K./full blue chippah level, his play was always superior.
Gildon was an elite 15 year old, rated as a potential first rounder, and Wisconsin jumped on him early. However, he had a weaker first year with the National Team, and Wisconsin's new coach essentially wanted his own kids, so cut a lot of the recruits, and it appears with Gildon was lukewarm. Gildon sensed that as the November early signing period came around, and although it was thought he might remain (http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/...cle_6dc047e5-d7d1-5146-bb61-d9acd809891b.html) he decided to decommit. His play really picked up, and Mike Souza deserves full marks for being able to recruit him. A bit of luck he came free later in the game, but that still left 30 other teams that could have convinced him to come. Mike apparently made a great sales pitch, and we're fortunate. He was a recruiting, rather than discovery, credit.
Maass falls into the other category. He was significantly overlooked going into his senior year, so had no solid offers. Souza and Stewart spotted him. ("His was kind of a unique situation. He went out to Fairbanks (Alaska) in the fall came back to Elk River, went back to Fairbanks, so I think that's a testament to his willingness to want to be a hockey player, and academically a really strong student, so there was a lot of things for us to like about his game, a big kid, moves the puck well. Coach Stewart saw him in the NAHL Showcase. Glenn had first seen him before I did. We always try to cross, and sometimes you can't. So Glenn obviously did a great job of identifying Benton Maass. And so we had him on a visit.") He is a top student who wanted to go to school as a true freshman, and UNH had a spot, they got a really good player who just kept developing. Friday's story says he is on a partial academic scholarship, and you can tell from his interviews that he will be a credit to UNH. I thought his play and poise is near that of Gildon, its just his shot wasn't bar down, but bar up.
So, to your point, I think we knew Gildon and Kelleher were top recruits, and even though not a top recruit at the time he committed, by the summer it was likely he would be an impact kid.
The angst you are referencing really is whether the process that led to this years' class is sustainable. In short, does a team have to recruit top kids vs. being able to identify the underrecruited kids. The overwhelming approach by top programs is to recruit compared to identify, and even the UNH class, Kelleher is the usual model, as he was recruited at 15, like most blue chippers. Gildon was a blue chipper who luckily freed up. That happens enough where a team can "get lucky" but really, also do a good job in re-recruting to take advantage of that -- teams like Penn State, Quinn, etc. are the usual destinations for those kids. Or hope that a late bloomer like Maass surfaces each year.
Going forward, the UNH pipeline, sans Commesso, is exclusively kids who were not really recruited but selected. They seem to be on a cycle, judging from Miller and Maass, of going to the junior showcase tournaments in September, and then getting them on campus. Perhaps we'll see some news soon -- of course we will have to, given that they have three important spots to fill for next year.
But underlying this all is that the most critical aspect of getting those is positive results that you can sell as a turnaround, so this fast start is hopefully something those potential recruits saw. It's all about momentum, and if Gildon's brother joins, it sends a message that Max is happy with his choice. The Mass and NE market is picked clean for 01 and 02, but I personally would be happier to see recruiting success that reflects that the community sees UNH as appealing. They can still recruit if they can get the BC kids for that age, like Sjvekosky, Prokup or Ahac, then they start moving in the right direction.
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Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
Thanks Scott. I just updated the article to include Souza's observations of James Miller.
Mike, great articles...thanks!
Question - When commenting about James Miller, did Souza actually say "to be continued", or are you saying that article itself "will be continued"?
Thanks Scott. I just updated the article to include Souza's observations of James Miller.
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
On video review it looked like Blackburn, while digging for the puck, shoved a Colgate player who then pushed the puck into the net. I'm not sure why that would get called back, but I thought the refs should have blown the whistle long before the goal anyway.
I'm MUCH more annoyed that UNH, after officially posting the stats to Collegehockeystats.net felt the need to then wrongly edit and repost the box score taking assists away from Blackburn and BVR. Gildon's final goal is now unassisted despite the fact that he picked up a rebound of Blackburns shot towards goal which hit a Gate player. That is an assist in any other stat both in the country.
Why UNH SIDS/Stat Crews have made a habit of exhibiting they, not only do not understand assist rules, but are undergoing some sort of crusade for being stingy with assists is beyond me. They wrongly do not include legitimate second assists all the time. This is not good for the individual or the team and has real implications on individual awards and eventually recruiting.
They did this to TK a few times last year by my recollection and as a result cost him the chance to lead the country in scoring and perhaps thusly be impossible to ignore for the Hobey Hat Trick/Hockey East player of the year.
I'm not begging for cheap assists. These are assists by rule. Why an Athletic department would actively work against the rules to take points away from its on players is mind boggling. There is not another rink in the country where UNHs final goal doesn't remain Gildon from Blackburn and BVR.
An SIDS job is to know the rules and stat the game correctly not how he/she believes it should be stated, while managing promotion and PR for the team. Right now they're are simply incorrectly interpreting rules and costing the team points, that could put them in a position for more media attention and thus recruiting leverage down the road. It happens all the time. Do your job...
No, it doesn't effect win-loss records which is obviously most important, but the peripheral has a big impact on what is available to you to sell. This stuff matters to recruiting. One award winning forward in college leads to another in the pipeline...
On video review it looked like Blackburn, while digging for the puck, shoved a Colgate player who then pushed the puck into the net. I'm not sure why that would get called back, but I thought the refs should have blown the whistle long before the goal anyway.
I'm MUCH more annoyed that UNH, after officially posting the stats to Collegehockeystats.net felt the need to then wrongly edit and repost the box score taking assists away from Blackburn and BVR. Gildon's final goal is now unassisted despite the fact that he picked up a rebound of Blackburns shot towards goal which hit a Gate player. That is an assist in any other stat both in the country.
Why UNH SIDS/Stat Crews have made a habit of exhibiting they, not only do not understand assist rules, but are undergoing some sort of crusade for being stingy with assists is beyond me. They wrongly do not include legitimate second assists all the time. This is not good for the individual or the team and has real implications on individual awards and eventually recruiting.
They did this to TK a few times last year by my recollection and as a result cost him the chance to lead the country in scoring and perhaps thusly be impossible to ignore for the Hobey Hat Trick/Hockey East player of the year.
I'm not begging for cheap assists. These are assists by rule. Why an Athletic department would actively work against the rules to take points away from its on players is mind boggling. There is not another rink in the country where UNHs final goal doesn't remain Gildon from Blackburn and BVR.
An SIDS job is to know the rules and stat the game correctly not how he/she believes it should be stated, while managing promotion and PR for the team. Right now they're are simply incorrectly interpreting rules and costing the team points, that could put them in a position for more media attention and thus recruiting leverage down the road. It happens all the time. Do your job...
No, it doesn't effect win-loss records which is obviously most important, but the peripheral has a big impact on what is available to you to sell. This stuff matters to recruiting. One award winning forward in college leads to another in the pipeline...
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Darius
Go 'cats!
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
Already Chuck? Could wait for a loss? A tie? A poorly played period?Hoping - hoping - to make it tonight to catch the "Champions of December" in midseason form.
Is it safe to assume that Colgate's goalie is Bruce Racine (Jr.?), son of the all-time NU great?
Darius
Go 'cats!
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
I truly appreciate the responses and everyone's, especially those who follow all aspects of the game more closely than I do posts, but full disclosure, I am pretty much trolling my own thread here. Apparently, for 3 games anyway, the UNH coaching staff is a few inches above the playing hand ball in the gutter recruiting level rhetoric.
This is the scouting service that overrates players because of some vested interest according to our recruiting thread?
I truly appreciate the responses and everyone's, especially those who follow all aspects of the game more closely than I do posts, but full disclosure, I am pretty much trolling my own thread here. Apparently, for 3 games anyway, the UNH coaching staff is a few inches above the playing hand ball in the gutter recruiting level rhetoric.
Darius
Go 'cats!
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
Colgate may not be all that good, but watching Max skate last night, it looked like he saw everything on the ice moving in slow motion. He did not start. Maas did. They were together on the PP together at least once. Has that ever happened at UNH before? FR D-men on the ice together?
I think you should more than 'casually' peruse the recruiting thread of you really want to get some good trolling in.
And yes, NZ is exactly what you wondered it to be. When you rank everyone high - including fringe DI prospects at 3.5-3.75/5 - you're going to end up rating the best players well, too. Money and subscribers is one reason. Being able to point to any good college hockey player and saying, "we ranked them well!" is another...
As for these three - Kelleher is a Borek get (so is Robinson and the nearly the entire rest of the roster) and Gildon would be at Wisconsin if they didn't blow it and put him back on the market with nowhere else to go ($$). I'm glad they're all here, but relying on Borek and opposing scholarships being pulled last minute isn't a sustainable long term strategy. Hence the gutter rhetoric (not to mention the six months+ of zero commitments and a paltry stable of existing verbals). If people want to discuss UNH recruiting real time that's what's currently taking place. If others would rather ignore it or believe in the staff to deliver a winning class no matter how they do it, more power to them...
Perhaps Souza is a high-wire recruiter who will pull rabbits out of his hat every year - I'll have to see it more than once to buy in.
This early season jump has less to do with the FR (three of whom are obviously very good) than seemingly dramatic improvements across nearly the entire roster. Umile deserves a lot of criticism, but I have always believed he maximized development very well - seems to be happening again, at least early, with guys like Salvaggio, McNicholas, Vela, Eiserman, Blackburn and more.
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Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats-The Back Nine and Beyond!
I'm not the least bit surprised that it appears to be minutiae to you. The stat crew's only job during the game is to get the stats right so its hardly minutiae even if you only care about the bottom line of the W. While many stat crews play the 'homer' and pump up a team's statistics, UNH's went back hours after the game to take assists away incorrectly. Its not the first time or I wouldn't have mentioned it to begin with. It happens often.
If Blackburn ends up playing this way the entire season, taking away legitimate points isn't going to help him win awards or generate media coverage. You know what helps sell recruits (especially for downtrodden programs desperately in need of selling points) - success (team and individual), awards (indications of development) and media attention. You know who pays attention to minutiae and doing the little things right - successful and winning programs and athletic departments.
I took a quick look at the numbers this morning and found that UNH ranked second to last in 2016-17 HE assists/goal and fared far worse at home than on the road. They're not only not helping their team/players but incorrectly hurting them. Perhaps in a way you don't care about, but still in a way that tangibly effects the program...
I'm not the least bit surprised that it appears to be minutiae to you. The stat crew's only job during the game is to get the stats right so its hardly minutiae even if you only care about the bottom line of the W. While many stat crews play the 'homer' and pump up a team's statistics, UNH's went back hours after the game to take assists away incorrectly. Its not the first time or I wouldn't have mentioned it to begin with. It happens often.
If Blackburn ends up playing this way the entire season, taking away legitimate points isn't going to help him win awards or generate media coverage. You know what helps sell recruits (especially for downtrodden programs desperately in need of selling points) - success (team and individual), awards (indications of development) and media attention. You know who pays attention to minutiae and doing the little things right - successful and winning programs and athletic departments.
I took a quick look at the numbers this morning and found that UNH ranked second to last in 2016-17 HE assists/goal and fared far worse at home than on the road. They're not only not helping their team/players but incorrectly hurting them. Perhaps in a way you don't care about, but still in a way that tangibly effects the program...
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