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UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

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Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Exactly, Chuck. For example - I thought he was great late in his FR season while playing with Foegel. Imagine if your top-nine this season were...

Salvaggio - McNicholas - Kelleher
Eiserman - Healthy Vela - Foegele
BVR - Blackburn - Grasso

The departure of one forward and the health (lack thereof) of a second really hurt UNH in all phases of forward play, Eiserman in particular...

---

Once again diving further into the WHAT IF world...

Salvaggio - McNicholas - Kelleher
Vecchione - Poturalski - Foegele
Eiserman - Nazarian - Vela
BVR - Blackburn - Grasso
Fregona

If Borek and Umile had not fumbled away talent (Foegele, Vecchione) or built enough depth to handle an early departure - we might have something here. Poturalski or not, this is a FF contending offense (talented and deep - and perhaps AP stays if he comes a year earlier, when he should have** - and has this group to return to as a SR). But, I'll say it again, getting the talent all the way to campus and utilizing them correctly is more important than just getting a verbal...

** Lets not lose sight of the fact that despite blowing it with Laleggia and Vecchione (among others), UNH has continued to defer its best forward recruits regularly. They did it to Downing, Poturalski and Blackburn for no particular reason other than lesser forwards already on the roster. Imagine where UNH would be if those three had bolted to other schools. Please, fair warning - no one come back with after the fact quotes about how those three were happy or chose to stay in juniors. UNH was fortunate those three accepted the decision, saw the upside and made the best of it, instead of going somewhere else...

And with Pots, don't forget how he broke his leg in jr's which set him back a bit even further. I hope these lessons were learned for the future??? And oh Dan...your 'What if" line up...I just mentioned to someone today what 'might have been' if TvR had stayed with Pesce for his Sr. year and if our goal tending situation had been different 14-15 season...such is hindsight.
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Exactly, Chuck. For example - I thought he was great late in his FR season while playing with Foegel. Imagine if your top-nine this season were...

Salvaggio - McNicholas - Kelleher
Eiserman - Healthy Vela - Foegele
BVR - Blackburn - Grasso

The departure of one forward and the health (lack thereof) of a second really hurt UNH in all phases of forward play, Eiserman in particular...

---

Once again diving further into the WHAT IF world...

Salvaggio - McNicholas - Kelleher
Vecchione - Poturalski - Foegele
Eiserman - Nazarian - Vela
BVR - Blackburn - Grasso
Fregona

If Borek and Umile had not fumbled away talent (Foegele, Vecchione) or built enough depth to handle an early departure - we might have something here. Poturalski or not, this is a FF contending offense (talented and deep - and perhaps AP stays if he comes a year earlier, when he should have** - and has this group to return to as a SR). But, I'll say it again, getting the talent all the way to campus and utilizing them correctly is more important than just getting a verbal...

** Lets not lose sight of the fact that despite blowing it with Laleggia and Vecchione (among others), UNH has continued to defer its best forward recruits regularly. They did it to Downing, Poturalski and Blackburn for no particular reason other than lesser forwards already on the roster. Imagine where UNH would be if those three had bolted to other schools. Please, fair warning - no one come back with after the fact quotes about how those three were happy or chose to stay in juniors. UNH was fortunate those three accepted the decision, saw the upside and made the best of it, instead of going somewhere else...


Pure fact is that UNH doenst have the luxury of telling top recruits to wait another year anymore...its to risky to lose the recruit and top recruits willing to come to UNH arent exactly falling over each other to come here right now. If you have to take a kid a year early they have to suck it up and take him.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Pure fact is that UNH doenst have the luxury of telling top recruits to wait another year anymore...its to risky to lose the recruit and top recruits willing to come to UNH arent exactly falling over each other to come here right now. If you have to take a kid a year early they have to suck it up and take him.

Are we getting Maass and Gildon earlier than say, we normally would...not to mention the fact we desperately need them! Yep..couldn't afford it then, and can't afford it now!
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Are we getting Maass and Gildon earlier than say, we normally would...not to mention the fact we desperately need them! Yep..couldn't afford it then, and can't afford it now!

Essentially, yes - they will be true freshman at UNH. Gildon was always going to go to college straight out of the USNTDP. Maass is likely an example of a young player they picked up because they were willing to take him right out of his SR year of high school. So that is a good sign.

It isn't untrue to say that UNH's history of deferrals and line-up decisions based on seniority have hurt UNH in ways beyond losing some of those commitments. It also made recruiting top talent more difficult. Prospects want to go to schools where they best players are brought in on schedule and given PT based on performance. Public perception and negative recruiting indicated UNH was not that school. Maass is hopefully an indication that this perception/practice is going away and UNH should benefit if true...
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Essentially, yes - they will be true freshman at UNH. Gildon was always going to go to college straight out of the USNTDP. Maass is likely an example of a young player they picked up because they were willing to take him right out of his SR year of high school. So that is a good sign.

It isn't untrue to say that UNH's history of deferrals and line-up decisions based on seniority have hurt UNH in ways beyond losing some of those commitments. It also made recruiting top talent more difficult. Prospects want to go to schools where they best players are brought in on schedule and given PT based on performance. Public perception and negative recruiting indicated UNH was not that school. Maass is hopefully an indication that this perception/practice is going away and UNH should benefit if true...

Totally agree. Top end players dont want to play a year or two of juniors after high school anymore. They want to go and play immediately in college. Look at BU's roster and a lot of those kids came right in (Patrick Harper, etc.). In order to get the high end recruit you have to be flexible when they enter the school - of course it would be ideal for them to play two years of juniors and come in older and more mature but the top level kids arent doing that anymore and UNH needs them more than ever. They are looking to come in as true freshman and UNH has to say - "Yep, come in whenever you want" at this point. They have to do whatever it takes. If another school says they want them to play a year or two or juniors and UNH says come right in then thats advantage UNH.
 
Here's the thing with Eiserman - he is an elite role player. That's why he made the US NTDP team. That's why he was recruited to UNH. Not because he was supposed to be a high-scoring player, but because he was an elite skater and third-line checking option with scoring ability. He has not had the supporting cast around him to allow him to excel in his role. He would have been excellent on past UNH teams as a central contributor to FF runs. On current teams, that lack scoring ability, depth at forward and proper (like-minded) line-mates Eiserman hasn't had the career many expected. Its not so much on him as it is the situation. Think extravagantly rich man's Greg Collins...

Its unfortunate for Shane, because he hustles his tail off and works hard to make things happen. He came to UNH as a life-long fan and attendee of UNH hockey games. I wish he had been able to play on better teams where fans would be more appreciative of the specific skill-set he brought to the table (instead of a career that should have made him a fan favorite, he's viewed as a slight underachiever because UNH has not been able to attract players to fill the scoring roles with enough depth). And where he could have better showcased his abilities in an effort to indicate what role he could play at the NHL level. Hopefully, he can still impress enough to get a shot...

I also think he is good enough offensively, that if given the chance in Correale's or Salvaggio's shoes that his point totals would be dramatically improved. Unfortunately, he's never been given such an opportunity.

I do not see how Vela's health can be blamed for Eiserman's deficiencies this past season, as Eiserman missed two more games than Vela (13 vs 11). When Vela came back, Eiserman was no longer playing. Both players were -4, with similar mediocre stats: 5 G on 41 SOG + 8 A for Eiserman, vs 4 G on 45 SOG + 5 A for Vela. But, I think at times Eiserman not on the ice was addition by subtraction, as after Salvaggio, Eiserman took the highest number of penalties per game played, many poorly timed in non-sensical situations, several behind the play right in front of a ref. And, these stupid penalties on the second least penalized team in Div 1, our SMT's.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I do not see how Vela's health can be blamed for Eiserman's deficiencies this past season, as Eiserman missed two more games than Vela (13 vs 11). When Vela came back, Eiserman was no longer playing. Both players were -4, with similar mediocre stats: 5 G on 41 SOG + 8 A for Eiserman, vs 4 G on 45 SOG + 5 A for Vela. But, I think at times Eiserman not on the ice was addition by subtraction, as after Salvaggio, Eiserman took the highest number of penalties per game played, many poorly timed in non-sensical situations, several behind the play right in front of a ref. And, these stupid penalties on the second least penalized team in Div 1, our SMT's.

Well, we disagree greatly about Eiserman. And that's fine as I think the lack of forward depth has put him in a position where he is not able to play to his strengths and give UNH what they expected when they got him. As a result, he is overlooked or even disliked. What he was expected to bring was a talented, great skating, hard-working, physical player with more than enough ability to chip in offense. He's a physical player who skates with an edge. You either enjoy that type of player or you don't...

I mention Vela's health because I suspect it impacted him well beyond the 11 games he missed. He skated and played like a guy who was fighting through pain and limiting injuries all season. Vela is a much better player than he showed and will be much better next year when healthy. He would have given Eiserman a PF linemate with a similar style of player and much more skill. Instead, Eiserman often played (excepting occasional pairings w/ Nazarian and a not ready, slight, finesse player in Fregona) with a handful of guys who should be playing at the bottom half of the AHA, if DI at all. It forced him to try to do to much (instead of keeping his game simple), play with linemates who did not mesh well at all with his style of play and it prevented him from any real offensive output as he has simply never been a player who creates for himself. A fully healthy Vela would have alleviated many of those issues and the two would have worked very well together IMO (just as Eiserman/Foegele had)...

I have no interest in comparing how healthy the two were, or how they performed. Eiserman simply isnt able to play 'his' game. Peak Vela would better allow that. Additionally, if you pair Eiserman with a scorer - he'll pick up his fair share of assists. If you pair him with a playmaker - he'll knock in some goals. He's never been given true a top-six opportunity and the bottom six around him have always been - to this point - to raw, to poor or to injured...
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

If you've been reading the BU board, Snively65 would like us to rumble abit more...at least, that's how I interpret his post!
I should have clarified my comment! :rolleyes:
If you've been reading the BU board, BUtogether is in the running with another poster or 2 for Comm Ave. tool bag of the year. Some of the posts over there a day or two ago were laugh out loud funny. mookie likes cookies. Who doesn't?
 
If you've been reading the BU board, BUtogether is in the running with another poster or 2 for Comm Ave. tool bag of the year. Some of the posts over there a day or two ago were laugh out loud funny. mookie likes cookies. Who doesn't?

I know right !?!? I like cookies too. Bahahaha!!! Man we really need something to talk about. First college hockey-less weekend since Oct what to do?!? Bruins v Blackhawks should suffice tomorrow with the snow coming in 🙄
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Well, we disagree greatly about Eiserman. And that's fine as I think the lack of forward depth has put him in a position where he is not able to play to his strengths and give UNH what they expected when they got him. As a result, he is overlooked or even disliked. What he was expected to bring was a talented, great skating, hard-working, physical player with more than enough ability to chip in offense. He's a physical player who skates with an edge. You either enjoy that type of player or you don't...

I mention Vela's health because I suspect it impacted him well beyond the 11 games he missed. He skated and played like a guy who was fighting through pain and limiting injuries all season. Vela is a much better player than he showed and will be much better next year when healthy. He would have given Eiserman a PF linemate with a similar style of player and much more skill. Instead, Eiserman often played (excepting occasional pairings w/ Nazarian and a not ready, slight, finesse player in Fregona) with a handful of guys who should be playing at the bottom half of the AHA, if DI at all. It forced him to try to do to much (instead of keeping his game simple), play with linemates who did not mesh well at all with his style of play and it prevented him from any real offensive output as he has simply never been a player who creates for himself. A fully healthy Vela would have alleviated many of those issues and the two would have worked very well together IMO (just as Eiserman/Foegele had)...

I have no interest in comparing how healthy the two were, or how they performed. Eiserman simply isnt able to play 'his' game. Peak Vela would better allow that. Additionally, if you pair Eiserman with a scorer - he'll pick up his fair share of assists. If you pair him with a playmaker - he'll knock in some goals. He's never been given true a top-six opportunity and the bottom six around him have always been - to this point - to raw, to poor or to injured...

I really hope that you are right and that I am wrong about Eiserman, Dan, as we will need him to be healthy and strong next season, as we will a healthy and strong Vela.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Well, we disagree greatly about Eiserman. And that's fine as I think the lack of forward depth has put him in a position where he is not able to play to his strengths and give UNH what they expected when they got him. As a result, he is overlooked or even disliked. What he was expected to bring was a talented, great skating, hard-working, physical player with more than enough ability to chip in offense. He's a physical player who skates with an edge. You either enjoy that type of player or you don't...

I mention Vela's health because I suspect it impacted him well beyond the 11 games he missed. He skated and played like a guy who was fighting through pain and limiting injuries all season. Vela is a much better player than he showed and will be much better next year when healthy. He would have given Eiserman a PF linemate with a similar style of player and much more skill. Instead, Eiserman often played (excepting occasional pairings w/ Nazarian and a not ready, slight, finesse player in Fregona) with a handful of guys who should be playing at the bottom half of the AHA, if DI at all. It forced him to try to do to much (instead of keeping his game simple), play with linemates who did not mesh well at all with his style of play and it prevented him from any real offensive output as he has simply never been a player who creates for himself. A fully healthy Vela would have alleviated many of those issues and the two would have worked very well together IMO (just as Eiserman/Foegele had)...

I have no interest in comparing how healthy the two were, or how they performed. Eiserman simply isnt able to play 'his' game. Peak Vela would better allow that. Additionally, if you pair Eiserman with a scorer - he'll pick up his fair share of assists. If you pair him with a playmaker - he'll knock in some goals. He's never been given true a top-six opportunity and the bottom six around him have always been - to this point - to raw, to poor or to injured...

I just have to agree with your comments and assessment of Eiserman. In his 3 years he has been the most mismanaged player on the team. You nailed his skill set but he has been on weak 3rd lines and far too many 4th lines. No ice and no support. A nod to Snively because he has taken more than his share of foolish penalties. But of the remaining kids he has one of the top 3 compete levels. Strong coaching could help him make better penalty situation choices. Rather than his continued demotions to the fourth line. Might hurt him but it hurts the team more.

Also want to put in a word for Fregona. if you want to talk about a compete level that is off the charts. Yes he is undersized and always will be, but i predict a 20 goal season before he graduates if given the right line mates. His skating and style reminds me of Darren Haydar. The hop step and cross over skating style as well as his willingness to finish his check with anyone. I didn't say he was DH, said his style and game are very similar and he has a very strong shot.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Also want to put in a word for Fregona. if you want to talk about a compete level that is off the charts. Yes he is undersized and always will be, but i predict a 20 goal season before he graduates if given the right line mates. His skating and style reminds me of Darren Haydar. The hop step and cross over skating style as well as his willingness to finish his check with anyone. I didn't say he was DH, said his style and game are very similar and he has a very strong shot.

Maybe he turns into a Matt Willows then? That was another player who skated under the radar for a year or two before making an impact in the second half of his UNH career. There were some exciting flashes of brilliance he showed this past season, and it will be interesting to see if he gets more of an opportunity this coming season.
 
I just have to agree with your comments and assessment of Eiserman. In his 3 years he has been the most mismanaged player on the team. You nailed his skill set but he has been on weak 3rd lines and far too many 4th lines. No ice and no support. A nod to Snively because he has taken more than his share of foolish penalties. But of the remaining kids he has one of the top 3 compete levels. Strong coaching could help him make better penalty situation choices. Rather than his continued demotions to the fourth line. Might hurt him but it hurts the team more.

Also want to put in a word for Fregona. if you want to talk about a compete level that is off the charts. Yes he is undersized and always will be, but i predict a 20 goal season before he graduates if given the right line mates. His skating and style reminds me of Darren Haydar. The hop step and cross over skating style as well as his willingness to finish his check with anyone. I didn't say he was DH, said his style and game are very similar and he has a very strong shot.

I also liked Chris Miller's flashes of speed the past two seasons. But, I do not think that either he or Fregona will ever crack the top two lines, and if Fregona is ever going to score 20 goals, he will need to take more than 22 shots (Miller only managed 24 SOG on the season), as that will not gain him more ice time. Who is going to lose ice time next year amongst Salvaggio, McNickolas, Eiserman, Vela, Nazarian, Blackburn, Grasso, BvR, and a couple of the supposed blue chippah forwards coming in?
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

If you've been reading the BU board, Snively65 would like us to rumble abit more...at least, that's how I interpret his post!
I should have clarified my comment! :rolleyes:

No, I hadn't had the time to check it out. At least I know I wasn't missing something here.

I guess I'll worry a little bit more about the other programs once we get our own program in order. :o
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I also liked Chris Miller's flashes of speed the past two seasons. But, I do not think that either he or Fregona will ever crack the top two lines, and if Fregona is ever going to score 20 goals, he will need to take more than 22 shots (Miller only managed 24 SOG on the season), as that will not gain him more ice time. Who is going to lose ice time next year amongst Salvaggio, McNickolas, Eiserman, Vela, Nazarian, Blackburn, Grasso, BvR, and a couple of the supposed blue chippah forwards coming in?

I think the ceiling for Fregona is a little higher than it is for Miller. When Miller broke through season before last, it was surprising and made for a nice story - NH kid playing for the state school - but his scoring output hasn't really ever developed since. For a kid who supposedly had the "hardest wrist shot in HE" (or whatever nonsense Umile was spouting about last preseason), I don't think his ceiling is going to be much more than a Thomas Fortney or Johnny Rogers speedy checking line type.

The reality of the situation for almost any D-1 program is that kids like Miller and Fregona who struggle for ice time early in their careers are almost always going to have a hard time breaking into the top six forwards (or top defensive pairing), if only because they're struggling to get that ice time to build their foundation to begin with. Moving up the depth chart rarely happens in big steps overnight, so the earlier a player makes that breakthrough, the better his chances for top line time later in his career.

It's one of the reasons why the previous season's "senior checking/first line" was never going to work. Too many marginal bottom-of-the-depth-chart guys were put together, asked to do too much, and (not surprisingly) came up short. It's as if Coach Umile thought he could make it happen by the sheer force of his will. Ironically, if Coach does come up short of the NRN next March, that decision will probably be a big reason why - between lost wins from overplaying those kids last season, and arguably from giving Foegele a good reason to look to leave the program, and any negative recruiting PR that flowed as a result.
 
No, I hadn't had the time to check it out. At least I know I wasn't missing something here.

I guess I'll worry a little bit more about the other programs once we get our own program in order. :o

You should check out the first page of the new lower case titled bu post-season thread, Chuck, as it is hilarious. May remind you of the good old days on this forum, about which I have only heard second hand.
 
Im disappointed for Kelleher - but as I outlined in a post earlier, Im not surprised in the least. The inclusion of Butcher (best player on the best team) at Kelleher's expense, proves the point I made in my TK/Zar post on the NU thread. Playing for a winning team matters. If Kelleher plays at DU he runs away with the team's scoring title and is the Pioneers' Hobey candidate. If he plays at NU or Union, he is the scoring leader and the number one Hobey candidate on either team. Unfortunately, he plays at UNH - a program mired in the muck and ends up bearing the responsibility for all of the failures of the team, and in particular, the team defense...

He's also constantly hurt by his size. In the minds of the voters, who pick up the early media narrative and run with it (lest they seem uninformed), he can't possibly impact both ends of the ice at 5-6, 150. And when his team's defensive performance is abysmal he bears the brunt. As Watcher often argues about building a defense - the best defense is quickly moving the puck out of your own end and possessing it. Kelleher does that extremely well. Additionally, he plays well on the PK and is not the liability he is labeled to be.

There is no better indication of the doubt Kelleher's size has always hung on him than his career comparisons to Anthony Louis. A similar forward, not quite as diminutive, who has been compared to TK since their days at the US NTDP. Louis was the more highly regarded recruit. Louis was drafted. Louis made the WJC team. Louis is the 'coveted' pro prospect. All of this ignores the fact that TK has completely out-produced Louis at every step of their careers. Yet, TK is always ignored and undervalued because of who he's not supposed to be and what he's not supposed to be able to do. Reality be ****ed...

Butcher plays on a loaded DU team - that again, IMO is playing next weekend without him. Vecchione played with Foo. ZAR played with FOUR other All-American caliber forwards at NU. Kelleher played this season at UNH alone. The stunning increase in production of his linemates (as well as the immediate PP impact of Grasso) is due largely to his talent, on-ice vision and ability. He has not been given nearly the credit he deserves for their performances. I would guess that none of the three match their 2016-17 performances next season and it becomes all too clear the impact TK had on the three...

If TK had a DU type team around him or an elite running mate he puts up 75+ points and is in the Hat Trick easily. As long as it wasn't Poturalski, that is. Because, as Snively65 pointed out - Poturalski outscores him (because while Kelleher is great, Poturalski is simply better. Fact.) and is the UNH Hobey candidate.

Kelleher is also hurt by UNH's history of talented forwards. Skilled forwards come to UNH and put up big numbers. Thats what they do. Death, Taxes and high-scoring UNH forwards. So voters discount his performance as that of just another UNH forward on a wide-open offense and the big ice. Whether its true or not.

Finally, UNH's marketing and communications staff strike again. What did they do to help promote Kelleher for Hobey? Very little. I see a youtube.com video with 760 views and almost nothing else. Yesterday, UNH's graphic designer tweeted a picture of a graphic he was going to use IF TK was named to the Hat Trick. What have I said about these departments doing the bare minimum? They sat on their hands and did the minimum. Articles and graphics to re-hash his accomplishments and NOTHING pro-active. Butcher made his push over the last month of the year, with a ton of media coverage due to DU's marketing efforts. TK was in the race all season and UNH did virtually nothing to help him. Let alone how that type of media coverage and information production/leaking might help future recruiting. It was a pathetic effort and a disservice to Kelleher and the program...

And, now back a page to this excellent post, and the likelihood of Butcher winning the Hobey. I suggest that Cleland was a better defenseman than Butcher this past season, for many of the same reasons that you have eloquently laid out for TyK being better than the other forwards. If it were not for TyK and Cleland this season, I would have had little reason to attend as many UNH games as I did in 2016-2017.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Tyler Kelleher was named an All Star by the New England Hockey Writers and Jason Salvaggio was named most improved player.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

And, now back a page to this excellent post, and the likelihood of Butcher winning the Hobey. I suggest that Cleland was a better defenseman than Butcher this past season, for many of the same reasons that you have eloquently laid out for TyK being better than the other forwards. If it were not for TyK and Cleland this season, I would have had little reason to attend as many UNH games as I did in 2016-2017.

I'm working on a post where I make the case that Danny Tirone out performed all other goaltenders in NCAA Division 1 hockey this past season. So then we can all agree that the Hobey Hat Trick should have been Cleland, Kelleher and Trione. My following post will outline a plan for the SID's office at UNH to feature Bob Dole - whose unsuccessful campaign as the Republican standard bearer took place during Dick Umile's 9th season as UNH head coach - speaking his famous "Where is the Outrage" line in a video critical of the flawed method of picking the Hobey winner...
 
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