UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

[HockeyRef]

Absolutely 100% spot on. UNH should and will be a hockey power again - they have the support, the facilities and the tradition to get them back but it wont be under Umile. UNH isnt going to be reloading they are going to be rebuilding after next year. The wave of Souza recruits will be coming in a few years and thats when the UNH program will have to hope to start getting back to National Champion contenders. The only positive I can take out of this is that Souza being an assistant for another year will have the ability to go out and recruit his type of players firsthand.....

Your perspective is always appreciated!!

 

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

It's funny, because I was literally going to write, "Nick P could start a website and give you Adam Wodon. At least his dismissal, mockery and backhanded compliments of UNH would be much more clever and entertaining."

Haha, I like you Nick and I suppose it depends on you definition of a power program. Can they run dynasties of multiple national titles in short spans? Maybe not, very few can or do.

Can they return to competing for HE championships on a year in and year out basis, regular 20+ win seasons and being a mainstay in the NCAA tournament and a threat for frozen fours and a title? Absolutely. They've been that program for long stretches twice.

Nothing has changed in regard to the tremendous experience UNH can offer recruits. It still an extremely attractive destination in the hands of the right salesman. While new challengers have arisen, old foes have similarly fallen off.

The excuses that have permeated the program of what they don't have, why they can't compete on the ice or for recruits are bogus. They are the rationalizations of failure and they give the naysayers reason to believe in their assertion that UNH is a lesser program. They are not reality in the hands of the right coach. Umile was the right coach. He isn't anymore.

Here's where UNH is different from BC - to some degree BC sells itself better. UNH needs the RIGHT guy. Someone who truly believes and can just go get it. When York retires their new coach can will have more of a margin for error being at BC. There are likely more coaches who could win at BC than UNH, but there are plenty who could win big in either spot.

UNH gets the right guy and they're back. If they don't, who knows. Is Souxa the right guy?? If he isn't will Scarano make a coaching decision based on winning percentage or will he let the program flounder in mediocrity. He almost never fires coaches, which is why I'm not surprised in the least Umile is back...

I think at the end of the day it comes down to winning. Winning attracts talent. Talent helps winning. BC attracts recruits not because of its facilities (which arent great IMO) but rather they win and players progress into the NHL from there. By all accounts Greg Brown will take over for York - thats not a huge splash that would attract recruits. BC is certainly losing out in the recruiting war to BU and that doesnt seem to be ending anytime soon. If you are a recruit are you choosing BU in the current climate. BC is on the downswing now with York...BU was on the downswing when Parker left....happens to even the best programs just as we have seen with UNH and Umile. As you stated it comes down to selling the UNH program and that appears something that Souza can do as he shown by winning a recruiting battle over BU/BC in the past. It can be done. He is going to have to be aggressive and land a few young blue chip recruits (which he seems to have done lately- there are more to be had in Morrow/Nazarian/Hanley/Gildon!) and sell them on helping being part of bringing UNH back to where it belongs. It appears he is going to build from the back end out which I love and that bodes well for the future. We just have to be patient and hope a few more recruits are coming! Land a few more bigtime recruits - they attract more bigtime recruits. It really comes down to winning - once you are winning the buildings are full, recruits want to come and life is good!

 

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Your perspective is always appreciated!!

Right back at ya!

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Only if you're just in it for the money, Greg.

You acknowledged that you wouldn't walk away. So how can one who also would be in it for the money disparage someone who is just like you? He has a three year deal, the third year is upon us and you want him to walk away when you yourself imply that you wouldn't. How about we look at the other side of this "negotiating table." Why no hate on Marty for, one, not firing him two years ago and, two, not offering a buyout so he would leave now. If Marty was looking forward to changing the culture, why not get a jump start by persuading the University to okay paying Umile off to ride into the sunset?

 

[ClOuD 9]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Again, for the record ... I hope Coach rides off into the sunset with all that he can reasonably hope to achieve with his team in his final year at UNH. But even if he comes up short, WIS wants to point out that not making it to 600 is hardly a stain on Coach's standing as one of the all-time greats. Here's a list of greats who didn't quite make it to 600 either:

528 - Sir Alex Ferguson (coaching wins - all-time PL leader)
511 - Cy Young (pitching wins - all-time MLB leader)
486 - Ty Cobb (win shares - all-time MLB leader - for the stats geeks)
377 - Bobby Bowden (coaching wins - all-time NCAA D-1 leader)
328 - Don Shula (coaching wins - all-time NFL leader)
229 - Willie Pep (wins - all-time boxing leader)
200 - Richard Petty (race wins - all-time NASCAR leader)

Is that counting only his time at Manchester United? If so pretty sure his time in charge of Aberdeen (and St. Mirren) would put him over 600.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

It's funny, because I was literally going to write, "Nick P could start a website and give you Adam Wodon. At least his dismissal, mockery and backhanded compliments of UNH would be much more clever and entertaining."

Haha, I like you Nick and I suppose it depends on you definition of a power program. Can they run dynasties of multiple national titles in short spans? Maybe not, very few can or do.

Can they return to competing for HE championships on a year in and year out basis, regular 20+ win seasons and being a mainstay in the NCAA tournament and a threat for frozen fours and a title? Absolutely. They've been that program for long stretches twice.

Nothing has changed in regard to the tremendous experience UNH can offer recruits. It still an extremely attractive destination in the hands of the right salesman. While new challengers have arisen, old foes have similarly fallen off.

The excuses that have permeated the program of what they don't have, why they can't compete on the ice or for recruits are bogus. They are the rationalizations of failure and they give the naysayers reason to believe in their assertion that UNH is a lesser program. They are not reality in the hands of the right coach. Umile was the right coach. He isn't anymore.

Here's where UNH is different from BC - to some degree BC sells itself better. UNH needs the RIGHT guy. Someone who truly believes and can just go get it. When York retires their new coach can will have more of a margin for error being at BC. There are likely more coaches who could win at BC than UNH, but there are plenty who could win big in either spot.

UNH gets the right guy and they're back. If they don't, who knows. Is Souxa the right guy?? If he isn't will Scarano make a coaching decision based on winning percentage or will he let the program flounder in mediocrity. He almost never fires coaches, which is why I'm not surprised in the least Umile is back...

Dan, respect your opinions but comparisons between UNH and BC are off base. First, due to the ACC money, BC has a lot more money to spend than UNH. And because of the ACC, they also have higher name recognition to start with. Plus York has won, what, four national championships and he has put a lot of recognizable names into the NHL. UNH has done none of that. The more apt comparison is with schools that don't have any of BC's advantages but consistently win. Schools like Duluth, Union, Quinnipiac and Lowell. I'm terribly disappointed that Umile and Scarano couldn't find a way to negotiate their way out of the third year. But unlike most, I put as much of the blame on Scarano as Umile. He's the one who has the power to pull the trigger. He could have done it two years ago, he could have done it last year, or he could have done it now. He sees the precipitous drop in overall attendance and, more importantly, season ticket sales. But I guess he preferred to keep fiddling while the Whit burned. Tone deaf.

 

[Dan]

Dan, respect your opinions but comparisons between UNH and BC are off base. First, due to the ACC money, BC has a lot more money to spend than UNH. And because of the ACC, they also have higher name recognition to start with. Plus York has won, what, four national championships and he has put a lot of recognizable names into the NHL. UNH has done none of that. The more apt comparison is with schools that don't have any of BC's advantages but consistently win. Schools like Duluth, Union, Quinnipiac and Lowell. I'm terribly disappointed that Umile and Scarano couldn't find a way to negotiate their way out of the third year. But unlike most, I put as much of the blame on Scarano as Umile. He's the one who has the power to pull the trigger. He could have done it two years ago, he could have done it last year, or he could have done it now. He sees the precipitous drop in overall attendance and, more importantly, season ticket sales. But I guess he preferred to keep fiddling while the Whit burned. Tone deaf.

I only mentioned BC because I was addressing Nick. And my point was to indicate that while it is easier to win at BC because of their advantages, that does not at all mean you cannot win at UNH, but it does become more critical for UNH to hire the right coach.

A past his prime Umile is no longer the right coach. If you get the right coach, than UNH has no problem competing with anyone, as an in his prime Umile proved. The same disadvantages existed then. And as you point out, UNH has distinct advantages over many others.

Scarano has failed the program in many ways. Most notably in athletic dept culture. Quite frankly, I think there are way to many people at UNH who don't believe they can compete or deserve to compete. Starting with Scarano and many involved in UNH Hockey.

The hockey program Has and offers what it takes to win, if they put excuses aside and believe again. They need Souza to be that kind of coach- a coach with a vision, energy, belief and some attitude...

If he fails it's his failure and not UNH simply existing as a lesser program...

---

So let me explain it this way. UNH has always faced these disadvantages when compared to BC, BU, ND and all of the other schools they supposedly can't compete with or recruit with. And UNH had, until recently, no issues finding a way to compete.

Let's say UNH and all of these schools need to start a fire. BC and the rest have cigarette lighters and UNH only has a matchbook. Well, that leaves UNH in a pretty **** good position to start a hell of a fire to rival any others. Once UNH starts realizing that again and stops feeling sorry for themselves that they don't have a lighter - while being lapped by schools banging two rocks together - maybe they can get back on track. The tool is more than enough, it's the mindset and the human error...

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">UNH hockey coach Dick Umile says six wins separate his team from the NCAA tournament. Wildcats were 15-20-5 this year.</p>— Nick Stoico (@NickStoico) <a href="https://twitter.com/NickStoico/status/842438869295464448">March 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Apparently unaware that PWR also calculates the quality of opponents, so six additional wins over Bentley, Arizona State and Brown don't really get you there.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">UNH hockey coach Dick Umile says six wins separate his team from the NCAA tournament. Wildcats were 15-20-5 this year.</p>— Nick Stoico (@NickStoico) <a href="https://twitter.com/NickStoico/status/842438869295464448">March 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Apparently unaware that PWR also calculates the quality of opponents, so six additional wins over Bentley, Arizona State and Brown don't really get you there.

6 wins would be 40% of what they got this year. a rather substantial figure, no?

 

[Greg Ambrose]

I only mentioned BC because I was addressing Nick. And my point was to indicate that while it is easier to win at BC because of their advantages, that does not at all mean you cannot win at UNH, but it does become more critical for UNH to hire the right coach.

A past his prime Umile is no longer the right coach. If you get the right coach, than UNH has no problem competing with anyone, as an in his prime Umile proved. The same disadvantages existed then. And as you point out, UNH has distinct advantages over many others.

Scarano has failed the program in many ways. Most notably in athletic dept culture. Quite frankly, I think there are way to many people at UNH who don't believe they can compete or deserve to compete. Starting with Scarano and many involved in UNH Hockey.

The hockey program Has and offers what it takes to win, if they put excuses aside and believe again. They need Souza to be that kind of coach- a coach with a vision, energy, belief and some attitude...

If he fails it's his failure and not UNH simply existing as a lesser program...

---

So let me explain it this way. UNH has always faced these disadvantages when compared to BC, BU, ND and all of the other schools they supposedly can't compete with or recruit with. And UNH had, until recently, no issues finding a way to compete.

Let's say UNH and all of these schools need to start a fire. BC and the rest have cigarette lighters and UNH only has a matchbook. Well, that leaves UNH in a pretty **** good position to start a hell of a fire to rival any others. Once UNH starts realizing that again and stops feeling sorry for themselves that they don't have a lighter - while being lapped by schools banging two rocks together - maybe they can get back on track. The tool is more than enough, it's the mindset and the human error...

Inattention is the word for me. First by Umile. When McCloskey was assistant, and Lassonde too, Umile had guys who knew how to use UNH's advantages to recruit. Then McCloskey went to the women's side and we got Borek. With him it was a slow, drip, drip, drip erosion of talent coming in. I always thought Borek was lazy, in that the longer he was the recruiter the less aggressive he was in going after the reach kid. And then the times he seemed to land one, LaLeggia for example, he'd make the judgement that deferring was the best option. No doubt Umile is,ultimately responsible for these failures but my take always was that Umile was detached from recruiting. More than once I can recall remarks he would make about a freshman's skills, seemingly surprised about what a kid could do. You could argue that he should have been more engaged, but his m.o. worked in an earlier era so why not now. Of course, if Marty was tuned in, he would have questioned the deteriroration earlier. But Marty is what an old friend of mine used to call a "face man." Just no there there.

Dan, I share your optimism that UNH can again compete. Unlike some. I'm willing to give Souza the benefit of the doubt. He's been around the block. College star, professional here and abroad, exposed to various recruiting philosophies. He's in his late thirties. About time to find out if he can develop a program.

 

[scoreboard]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">UNH hockey coach Dick Umile says six wins separate his team from the NCAA tournament. Wildcats were 15-20-5 this year.</p>— Nick Stoico (@NickStoico) <a href="https://twitter.com/NickStoico/status/842438869295464448">March 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Apparently unaware that PWR also calculates the quality of opponents, so six additional wins over Bentley, Arizona State and Brown don't really get you there.

If Umile said that he really should be fired. Dumbest statement ever. Just think, in his mind, had they beaten Lowell on Sunday, they would have been just 6 more straight wins away from a National Championship. So close.... Delusional.

 

[Snively65]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">UNH hockey coach Dick Umile says six wins separate his team from the NCAA tournament. Wildcats were 15-20-5 this year.</p>— Nick Stoico (@NickStoico) <a href="https://twitter.com/NickStoico/status/842438869295464448">March 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Apparently unaware that PWR also calculates the quality of opponents, so six additional wins over Bentley, Arizona State and Brown don't really get you there.

But, six wins against BU, BC, and NICC might have done it; I am sure that is what Umile meant.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Inattention is the word for me. First by Umile. When McCloskey was assistant, and Lassonde too, Umile had guys who knew how to use UNH's advantages to recruit. Then McCloskey went to the women's side and we got Borek. With him it was a slow, drip, drip, drip erosion of talent coming in. I always thought Borek was lazy, in that the longer he was the recruiter the less aggressive he was in going after the reach kid. And then the times he seemed to land one, LaLeggia for example, he'd make the judgement that deferring was the best option. No doubt Umile is,ultimately responsible for these failures but my take always was that Umile was detached from recruiting. More than once I can recall remarks he would make about a freshman's skills, seemingly surprised about what a kid could do. You could argue that he should have been more engaged, but his m.o. worked in an earlier era so why not now. Of course, if Marty was tuned in, he would have questioned the deteriroration earlier. But Marty is what an old friend of mine used to call a "face man." Just no there there.

Dan, I share your optimism that UNH can again compete. Unlike some. I'm willing to give Souza the benefit of the doubt. He's been around the block. College star, professional here and abroad, exposed to various recruiting philosophies. He's in his late thirties. About time to find out if he can develop a program.

Lazy was never a word I associated with Borek. He seemed pretty hard charging and energetic. Maybe what you saw as laziness was distraction. Right around the time of the decline would have been right around the time his kids were at that age that you really want/need to be involved with them, particularly their hockey. Maybe it got harder to head out to BC when one of his kids had a big weekend of hockey going on, or maybe it got easier to head home from a recruiting trip a day or two early to catch one of the kids' games. It happens, he's only human.

Not to mention getting talent wasn't his main problem, it was keeping it. That's where I find fault with him. Inflexibility? Arrogance? whatever it was that made him think he could force blue chippers to defer was his big flaw.

 

[scoreboard]

But, six wins against BU, BC, and NICC might have done it; I am sure that is what Umile meant.

The thing is, with UNH sitting #39 in the pairwise rankings another 20-25 coaches whose teams will miss the NCAA's could say the same thing. Many with less than getting 6 additional KEY wins needed to be in. How many will use that comparison about how close they came to making the playoffs?

 

[The Zlax45]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Lazy was never a word I associated with Borek. He seemed pretty hard charging and energetic. Maybe what you saw as laziness was distraction. Right around the time of the decline would have been right around the time his kids were at that age that you really want/need to be involved with them, particularly their hockey. Maybe it got harder to head out to BC when one of his kids had a big weekend of hockey going on, or maybe it got easier to head home from a recruiting trip a day or two early to catch one of the kids' games. It happens, he's only human.

Not to mention getting talent wasn't his main problem, it was keeping it. That's where I find fault with him. Inflexibility? Arrogance? whatever it was that made him think he could force blue chippers to defer was his big flaw.

Now Borek is with a team that won a national championship the season before he joined the program...so we will see his abilities now at PC.

 

[scoreboard]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Bazin from Lowell named HE COTY. Tomorrow, Umile will release a statement saying he was only 9 coaches away from being name HE COTY again...

 

[Dan]

Now Borek is with a team that won a national championship the season before he joined the program...so we will see his abilities now at PC.

When Borek arrived at UNH in 2002-03 the team advanced to its fourth frozen four and second title game in six years. And slowly but consistently the recruiting got worse and worse. If things are different at PC it will be because you (rightly) have a HC heavily involved in recruiting. Not because of the lofty situation Borek walked into...

Also of note, soon after his arrival PC lost Mike Vecch...I mean, Jordan Kawaguchi...after asking him to defer. That would be second in the BCHL with 85 points and heading to North Dakota, Jordan Kawaguchi...

If you run into Leaman, you'd be wise to suggest he continue keeping a close eye on all recruiting decisions. I'd hate for you guys to end up with a team full of Jason O'Neill's while players like JK are starring for other programs...

 

[Snively65]

The thing is, with UNH sitting #39 in the pairwise rankings another 20-25 coaches whose teams will miss the NCAA's could say the same thing. Many with less than getting 6 additional KEY wins needed to be in. How many will use that comparison about how close they came to making the playoffs?

Oh, I know; I was just being facetious.

 

[scoreboard]

Oh, I know; I was just being facetious.

I know you were being facetious. You just pointed out exactly what Umile meant by his statement. Heck, if I was 10 inches taller, 15 years younger and could throw a football 99.9999% better than I do I may have as many Super Bowl rings as Tom Brady. well maybe not.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

More bizarre than the statement itself, to me, was what his point was in even making it.