UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

[Ned Braden]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I always say assistant - because I agree that alternate implies they have no responsibilities unless the captain is missing. Getting an A is every bit the bestowing of leadership responsibilities.

More importantly, I think it is a lame pet peeve and if I can twist that knife I'll do it as often as possible.

That said, I don't like that Tirone was named an assistant captain. I think there were better choices for assistant captain. I worry that his being an assistant captain will eliminate any semblance of a goalie competition because they'll need him on the ice as an assistant captain. There's a reason goalies aren't often named assistant captains. Assistant captains should be skaters and/or consistent quality contributors in whatever role they have. Those are just my thoughts on assistant captains - and Tirone being named an assistant captain...

Attempts at humor (even bad ones) will not be tolerated. We have bigger issues to fry!

 

[Dan]

Attempts at humor (even bad ones) will not be tolerated. We have bigger issues to fry!

Huh, I thought it was pretty good. I definitely LOL'd.

But i have plenty of jokes about the bigger issues too!

Have you heard the one about the coach who wouldn't change with the times??

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I always say assistant - because I agree that alternate implies they have no responsibilities unless the captain is missing. Getting an A is every bit the bestowing of leadership responsibilities.

More importantly, I think it is a lame pet peeve and if I can twist that knife I'll do it as often as possible.

Here's the problem, the A literally stands for Alternate, not by convention or tradition, but by as in it's in the rulebook.

I guess we could say that Chara has worn the C so long that he's now the Colonel and not the Captain, but that would be silly, just like...And it is for when the captain is missing, from the ice. In which case, alternatively, another player may talk to the ref. To stretch it further, the alternate can't assist the captain in talking to the ref, if the C is already talking the ref will tell the A to skate away. So it's totally alternative and not assistant.

 

[Dan]

Here's the problem, the A literally stands for Alternate, not by convention or tradition, but by as in it's in the rulebook.

I guess we could say that Chara has worn the C so long that he's now the Colonel and not the Captain, but that would be silly, just like...And it is for when the captain is missing, from the ice. In which case, alternatively, another player may talk to the ref. To stretch it further, the alternate can't assist the captain in talking to the ref, if the C is already talking the ref will tell the A to skate away. So it's totally alternative and not assistant.

Any fan can refer to the A as they wish. I simply do not care how it is termed in the rule book - the A works interchangeably based on the actual role of the designee including his responsibility to assist in leading off the ice. A MUCH more important role than speaking to the on-ice officials. Therefore, I prefer and will always use the less pretentious term of assistant.

In soccer rule books it's all this kit and pitch and team as a plural BS. I'm completely fine being my own man and my own fan - of hockey, soccer is garbage.

Therefore I prefer and use the following. Assistant. Jersey/Uniform (you will never catch me saying sweater either). Field. Singular. I don't need to impress anyone by using their preferred vocabulary, least of all some English hooligan or insecure American futbol supporter...

 

[e.cat]

Any fan can refer to the A as they wish. I simply do not care how it is termed in the rule book - the A works interchangeably based on the actual role of the designee including his responsibility to assist in leading off the ice. A MUCH more important role than speaking to the on-ice officials. Therefore, I prefer and will always use the less pretentious term of assistant.

In soccer rule books it's all this kit and pitch and team as a plural BS. I'm completely fine being my own man and my own fan - of hockey, soccer is garbage.

Therefore I prefer and use the following. Assistant. Jersey/Uniform (you will never catch me saying sweater either). Field. Singular. I don't need to impress anyone by using their preferred vocabulary, least of all some English hooligan or insecure American futbol supporter...

Don't forget oganISation and organIZation, locker room and dressing room!Haha

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Wow - Impressive how you over simplify one conversation and ignore the other all at once. Everyone here understands that talent and leadership don't go hand in hand. Absolutely NO ONE has a problem with the captains not being stars.

What people have had a problem with in the past - is a player who shouldn't even have been in the regular line-up getting a C and being placed on the first line and PP unit as a result.

The reality for Chanter is he was always going to play - and should in my opinion - on the third pair. I'm completely ok with him as captain. But there is zero question that a C seals his place in the line-up and creates a slimmer window for three FR D to play. Even on a part time basis. That's a legitimate conversation even if you don't enjoy it. And I say that as one of Chanters most vocal fans on this board for years.

I'm not sure how you can question people wondering if the best players will play with a straight face. It has never been that straight forward with Umile and it IS one of the biggest reasons why recruiting went of a cliff. We need look no further than Salvaggio and McNicholas to know being better doesn't get you into the line-up or your deserved role as a FR or SO...

Tirone getting the A is a problem - I don't care how hard he works or that he stayed in the UML game to take a beating. He's not very good, has never been held accountable for his performance and certainly won't now thy he is not only an A but the only A. He should be forced to compete for the job - the letter ensures he won't have to (and should he play poorly - will never fully lose it)...

Dan, everything you say here is true. Having watched Umile since he became coach, there is absolutely no question that he favors plodding seniors over flashy freshmen. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of freshmen who took on prominent roles over upperclassmen. Boguniecki, Murray, Haydar pop into my head right away. Someone mentioned Saviano, who definitely should have played as a freshman over at least two or three upperclassmen. So when you look at the incoming freshmen, particularly the dmen, my guess is Umile will rotate them in and out and decide which are most effective while the upperclassmen literally skate free.

As for how captains are selected, the vibe I always got was that Umile had veto power. Obviously the players have first say but I was told more than once by people who were familiar with the locker room that they followed the implied guidance of their coach. I think way back, in the 90s, there was one guy the players chose that Umile didn't take to, but they added him as a third alternate.

To me the most maddening is the TIrone situation. Really, as Dan says, he cannot play, at least with any sort of consistency. It's always what are you going to get, the Good Danny or the Bad Danny? Last year, and the year before, it was mostly the Bad Danny, wasn't it? I know people will say, what about the Merrimack playoff games? Well what about them? Perhaps if he had played with a modicum of consistency, UNH wouldn't have finished ninth. After all, the only won one game in the last two months. How that record can be rewarded is beyond me.

 

[UNH1932]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Danny meets the criteria for leadership and character. I know you do not like him but he was pretty good this year .912 save % with awful defense is pretty good and he had the most saves of any goalie in the country. I believe they will play the best players and we have enough firepower already Dan with our first 3 lines and the fourth line will be very good as well. Chris Miller won two awards at the banquet so he will not be sitting. Wyse is a top notch defensemen and played every game he was not hurt last year. Gildon, Maas and Miller (D) will be playing. If we can make it through the year without having multiple longer term injuries, I do believe we will be very good this year. I admire your passion but it is not Tirone's fault that we were well under .500 last year. We will not be near Denver but will have 19 games at the Whit. Make a trip back to visit your family and I hope you will be pleased with the product this year. Let us be positive as this is the best overall talent we have had in a long time (Kevin Regan is not walking through that door) and our top 6 defensemen will be 6-1 1/2 and 205 lbs with both defensive and offensive talent. Be optimistic and if we suck I will be the first to admit that I was wrong.

 

[UNH1932]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Patrick was a good student not a 4.0 student and he was a US Under 18 kid that had a lot of injuries Snively. Can we just let Colin Mac alone as he is doing very well in his professional career albeit a lower level league.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Danny meets the criteria for leadership and character. I know you do not like him but he was pretty good this year .912 save % with awful defense is pretty good and he had the most saves of any goalie in the country. I believe they will play the best players and we have enough firepower already Dan with our first 3 lines and the fourth line will be very good as well. Chris Miller won two awards at the banquet so he will not be sitting. Wyse is a top notch defensemen and played every game he was not hurt last year. Gildon, Maas and Miller (D) will be playing. If we can make it through the year without having multiple longer term injuries, I do believe we will be very good this year. I admire your passion but it is not Tirone's fault that we were well under .500 last year. We will not be near Denver but will have 19 games at the Whit. Make a trip back to visit your family and I hope you will be pleased with the product this year. Let us be positive as this is the best overall talent we have had in a long time (Kevin Regan is not walking through that door) and our top 6 defensemen will be 6-1 1/2 and 205 lbs with both defensive and offensive talent. Be optimistic and if we suck I will be the first to admit that I was wrong.

Curious, how many wins are you projecting for a team that one game in the last two months of the regular season?

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Patrick was a good student not a 4.0 student and he was a US Under 18 kid that had a lot of injuries Snively. Can we just let Colin Mac alone as he is doing very well in his professional career albeit a lower level league.

I must be confusing the 4.0 with another former UNH captain, but not sure who that might be.

Here are some links that follow Patrick Foley's career, including the night that the Sox lost game 7 to the Yankees in 2003, which led to Dick suspending eight of his players for two games (Foley was a senior and co-captain that year with Saviano, and also missed a couple of games early in the season for concussion symptoms, not suspension).

The list of former hockey captains and co-captains (no A's included! ) is from the UNH webpages, but Foley's first year as a co-captain appears to have been left off for some reason. I remember following some of those early captains, like Rod Blackburn and Brad Houston, at the outdoor Batchelder rink. Another favorite Dude Thorn never made captain. I guess.

http://www.seacoastonline.com/article/20031024/sports/310249891

http://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/behind-bench-with-patrick-foley_06.html

http://www.ecachockey.com/men/members/harvard/20070708_harvardtabsfoley

http://www.themackreport.com/news/column-potential-merrimack-coaching-hires/


1960-1961 Rod Blackburn
1961-1962 Ken McKinnon, Ed Mullen, Sam Nichols
1962-1963 Dick Lamontagne
1963-1964 Clarence Littell
1964-1965 John Gilday
1965-1966 Brad Houston
1966-1967 Robert Walsh
1967-1968 Graham Bruder
1968-1969 Graham Bruder
1969-1970 Ryan Brandt, Allan Clark
1970-1971 Louis Frigon
1971-1972 Dick Umile
1972-1973 Bill Beaney
1973-1974 Gordie Clark
1974-1975 Mike Burkart
1975-1976 Jamie Hislop
1976-1977 Barry Edgar
1977-1978 Jon Fontas
1978-1979 Bob Gould
1979-1980 Bob Francis
1980-1981 Dana Barbin, Sean Coady
1981-1982 Ed Olsen
1982-1983 Dan Forget
1983-1984 Paul Barton, Ken Chisolm
1984-1985 Scott Ellison, Dwayne Robinson, Ralph Robinson
1985-1986 Peter Herms, James Richmond
1986-1987 James Richmond
1987-1988 Tim Hanley, Rick Lambert
1988-1989 Tim Shields
1989-1990 Chris Grassie
1990-1991 Riel Bellegarde, David MacIntyre
1991-1992 Savo Mitrovic
1992-1993 Kevin Thomson
1993-1994 Bob Chebator
1994-1995 Eric Flinton, Kent Schmidtke
1995-1996 Mike Sullivan
1996-1997 Eric Boguniecki, Tim Murray
1997-1998 Mark Mowers
1998-1999 Jason Krog, Steve O’Brien
1999-2000 Mike Souza, Dan Enders
2000-2001 Ty Conklin
2001-2002 Darren Haydar
2002-2003 Patrick Foley
2003-2004 Patrick Foley, Steve Saviano
2004-2005 Justin Aikins, Preston Callander, Tyson Teplitsky
2005-2006 Brian Yandle
2006-2007 Josh Ciocco
2007-2008 Matt Fornataro
2008-2009 Joe Charlebois, Greg Collins
2009-2010 Bobby Butler, Peter LeBlanc
2010-2011 Mike Sislo
2011-2012 Mike Borisenok, Damon Kipp
2012-2013 Connor Hardowa
2013-2014 Eric Knodel
2014-2015 Matt Willows
2015-2016 Collin MacDonald
2016-2017 Matias Cleland

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

If that's not the title of next season's thread...

UNH Hockey 2017/18 - All About Dick

Hey, that's why it's all in capital letters, mon ami.

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Danny meets the criteria for leadership and character. I know you do not like him but he was pretty good this year .912 save % with awful defense is pretty good and he had the most saves of any goalie in the country. I believe they will play the best players and we have enough firepower already Dan with our first 3 lines and the fourth line will be very good as well. Chris Miller won two awards at the banquet so he will not be sitting. Wyse is a top notch defensemen and played every game he was not hurt last year. Gildon, Maas and Miller (D) will be playing. If we can make it through the year without having multiple longer term injuries, I do believe we will be very good this year. I admire your passion but it is not Tirone's fault that we were well under .500 last year. We will not be near Denver but will have 19 games at the Whit. Make a trip back to visit your family and I hope you will be pleased with the product this year. Let us be positive as this is the best overall talent we have had in a long time (Kevin Regan is not walking through that door) and our top 6 defensemen will be 6-1 1/2 and 205 lbs with both defensive and offensive talent. Be optimistic and if we suck I will be the first to admit that I was wrong.

We can all tell that you drank the Kool-Aid...

In college hockey .912 is no longer a good save percentage. When 30 goalies (all from different schools) are .913 or better last year .912 isn't good it is below average, borderline poor. Good to me is the top quartile - so top 15 - and that took a .920.

Might some of the shot totals have been just a bit lower if there was consistency in the glove hand and some rebound control?

Nobody is saying Tirone is not a good leader off the ice. He is not good enough for the guarantee of playing time that comes with a letter. You can be a leader without the letter.

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

If that's not the title of next season's thread...

UNH Hockey 2017/18 - All About Dick

I really like the play on words... about Umile and based on the decisions to this point about Nothing...

 

[Aerman]

I must be confusing the 4.0 with another former UNH captain, but not sure who that might be.

Not a captain, but my recollection is Flaishans left with a 4.0 double major.

 

[Snively65]

Not a captain, but my recollection is Flaishans left with a 4.0 double major.

I was just reading a fine article about Brad Flaishans' success on Wall Street in the latest UNH Magazine. He did not pursue professional hockey, but immediately began his career in business, which included picking up a MBA at Harvard. It was noted that UNH averaged 24 wins and NCAA appearances all four of his seasons before he graduated in 2008. But, I was thinking of a player with 4.0 GPA from an earlier era.

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I was just reading a fine article about Brad Flaishans' success on Wall Street in the latest UNH Magazine. He did not pursue professional hockey, but immediately began his career in business, which included picking up a MBA at Harvard. It was noted that UNH averaged 24 wins and NCAA appearances all four of his seasons before he graduated in 2008. But, I was thinking of a player with 4.0 GPA from an earlier era.

https://issuu.com/unhmag/docs/unh_magazine_spring_2017 page 77

 

[UNH1932]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

We can all tell that you drank the Kool-Aid...

In college hockey .912 is no longer a good save percentage. When 30 goalies (all from different schools) are .913 or better last year .912 isn't good it is below average, borderline poor. Good to me is the top quartile - so top 15 - and that took a .920.

Might some of the shot totals have been just a bit lower if there was consistency in the glove hand and some rebound control?

Nobody is saying Tirone is not a good leader off the ice. He is not good enough for the guarantee of playing time that comes with a letter. You can be a leader without the letter.

I know we have nothing but hockey geniuses on this site and I appreciate most of the thoughtful postings of many on the board. I know Dan is a Tirone HATER, and most of the rest of you are on board. Would his save % be higher if he played on a trap team like Lowell, Providence, Merrimack, etc (even Denver does not leave their goalie to more than 3 grade A chances against them in most games). Danny Tirone faces 40+ shots per game with 30+% of those shots being grade A due to our defensive inadequacies over the past few years. He is not perfect but he is one of the better goalies in hockey east. Notre Dame fans saw him over a weekend and many said he was the best goalie they faced this year. He gave up 5 goals in two nights by standing on his head and they appreciated his outstanding athleticism. The ND goalie had about 5 grade A's over two nights and he gave up 3 goals and Danny saw about 30 grade A and gave up 5 goals. Who is a better goalie? If Danny was the goaltender of Notre Dame, would they have won both games or would Peterson make 28 grade A saves to keep it tied? It is crapola when you try to use useless stats that do not tell the whole story. Yes I get upset sometimes when he misses a glove save and yes he does it more than Kevin Regan or Casey Desmith did. All in all, he is better than you give him credit for. Please send your stats as a goalie JB as I think you may have played the position in Rochester.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I know we have nothing but hockey geniuses on this site and I appreciate most of the thoughtful postings of many on the board. I know Dan is a Tirone HATER, and most of the rest of you are on board. Would his save % be higher if he played on a trap team like Lowell, Providence, Merrimack, etc (even Denver does not leave their goalie to more than 3 grade A chances against them in most games). Danny Tirone faces 40+ shots per game with 30+% of those shots being grade A due to our defensive inadequacies over the past few years. He is not perfect but he is one of the better goalies in hockey east. Notre Dame fans saw him over a weekend and many said he was the best goalie they faced this year. He gave up 5 goals in two nights by standing on his head and they appreciated his outstanding athleticism. The ND goalie had about 5 grade A's over two nights and he gave up 3 goals and Danny saw about 30 grade A and gave up 5 goals. Who is a better goalie? If Danny was the goaltender of Notre Dame, would they have won both games or would Peterson make 28 grade A saves to keep it tied? It is crapola when you try to use useless stats that do not tell the whole story. Yes I get upset sometimes when he misses a glove save and yes he does it more than Kevin Regan or Casey Desmith did. All in all, he is better than you give him credit for.

'32, you raise some very fair points. It's unfortunate that Tirone's play has been such a lightning rod for discussion, as I do think he is coming in for a lot of undeserved criticism. To be fair, I don't know if I'd say he is definitively among the best in HE, because I think you would have to concede that his performances can be inconsistent. I'm also uncomfortable citing a particularly "good" weekend (i.e. Notre Dame) when there are other weekends when the opposite could have been said about his performance.

In fact, it's because the "good" Tirone can be SO good, that it makes it SO maddening when the "bad" Tirone shows up. But he's human, and we all have ups and downs. And I think unfortunately, Tirone takes a lot of heat because the guys who have been playing in front of him for the last two seasons have struggled for consistency themselves ... and it may not be until after the incoming frosh defensemen find their feet at the D-1 level that UNH finally solves that problem, by which time Tirone may well be gone to graduation, the ECHL, etc.

With all due respect to JB, I do think he slanted the stats a little harshly to try to display Tirone as a "below average, borderline poor" goalie. Just taking those numbers as is ... a .912 with 30 guys at .913 or above probably means there are 30 other guys who are .911 or below. That's bang average, right in the middle of the pack. At worst, that's .001 off average, which literally means Tirone "misses" one save out of a thousand shots that the guy in front of him makes. Not great, not poor. Average for D-1. Now figure in the quality of shots he has been facing this past season, as opposed to some/most of the guys just in front of him. I think a strong argument actually can be made that Tirone is a slightly above-average goalie ... but again, his inconsistency does him no favors in the perception of many.

At the end of the day, there is a huge rift in how many of us view modern day goalies, with this huge shift over the last generation from goalies with a semblance of athleticism, now leaning heavily towards huge guys who have learned to fill space, and not much else. For all the criticism directed towards Tirone's glove hand, I do find it interesting that some of the examples cited as the "best" currently in HE are guys who do everything possible to avoid the use of their glove hands, other than as an additional space blocker - not as a catcher.

I've described some of those guys as having "all the athleticism of a curbstone", but that sadly is what the scouts and talent evaluators are looking for now - and I'm not sure you can blame them. Scoring is down everywhere, and frankly it's not because modern goalies are more talented or athletic than their predecessors. Which is a shame for a sport that is incredibly athletic. It probably won't change until something basic about how the game is played is changed (i.e. making the net bigger, raising the crossbar, etc.) to get the goalies off their knees. And it's sadly another example of how "advanced analytics" have pushed the game in a bad direction quality-wise (unless of course you enjoy watching huge immobile goalies sliding back and forth between the posts on their knees, hunched under the crossbar).

AA have messed up baseball with the pitch count/walk-is-as-good-as-a-hit culture, it's messing up hoops with the overreliance on three point shooting at the expense of the midrange and post games, it's sapped the balance out of pro football by eliminating the importance of the running game at the expense of endless 5 yard passes ... and it's sucked the athleticism out of the goalie position in hockey, and now we see an endless stream of Ben Bishop types and too few Dominic Haseks.

[end of anti-advanced analytics rant for the day/]

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

AA have messed up baseball with the pitch count/walk-is-as-good-as-a-hit culture, it's messing up hoops with the overreliance on three point shooting at the expense of the midrange and post games, it's sapped the balance out of pro football by eliminating the importance of the running game at the expense of endless 5 yard passes ... and it's sucked the athleticism out of the goalie position in hockey, and now we see an endless stream of Ben Bishop types and too few Dominic Haseks.

[end of anti-advanced analytics rant for the day/]

I’m not a big advanced analytics guy myself, by which I mean they’re not something I enjoy or look at frequently, but the bottom line is if the stuff you mentioned above – 3 pt. shots, 5 yd. passes, big goalies – didn’t work, teams wouldn’t use them. I think you’re kind of blaming the messenger, aa might have uncovered or confirmed that those things work but aa didn’t create them.

Most of them are just natural evolutions of the games, or if there is blame, it’s on the rules that have been put in place. If you put a line on the floor and say shots from beyond it count more, pro athletes are going to get good at it, and what was once special or extra becomes normal. Did people really not see that coming? Same thing with skewing all the rules in favor of the offense, and suddenly teams don’t bother running the ball? No kidding.

One of the downfalls in hockey is when goalie equipment went from protection to performance. The Michelin Man look is all about blocking more of the net, not protecting the goalie. But I have at least an equal problem with cross checking now being all but legal - sorry, “working the hips”, (absolute crap). It’s the 21st century clutch and grab, allows slow footed defensemen to keep quick forwards in the corner, when they would otherwise leave that dman standing there and wheel out for a shot. We don’t have any more 50 goal scorers? Let guys like Marchand and Pastrnak control the puck in the corner without getting 6 ft. of lumber across the back and they’d both easily be 40 goal scorers this year. That’s not aa, that's the NHL being its old idiot self in terms of rules and officiating.

Science, analytics, facts, evolution this early in the morning?…as a Trump guy I’m sure your head is about to explode, apologies for that!

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I know we have nothing but hockey geniuses on this site and I appreciate most of the thoughtful postings of many on the board. I know Dan is a Tirone HATER, and most of the rest of you are on board. Would his save % be higher if he played on a trap team like Lowell, Providence, Merrimack, etc (even Denver does not leave their goalie to more than 3 grade A chances against them in most games). Danny Tirone faces 40+ shots per game with 30+% of those shots being grade A due to our defensive inadequacies over the past few years. He is not perfect but he is one of the better goalies in hockey east. Notre Dame fans saw him over a weekend and many said he was the best goalie they faced this year. He gave up 5 goals in two nights by standing on his head and they appreciated his outstanding athleticism. The ND goalie had about 5 grade A's over two nights and he gave up 3 goals and Danny saw about 30 grade A and gave up 5 goals. Who is a better goalie? If Danny was the goaltender of Notre Dame, would they have won both games or would Peterson make 28 grade A saves to keep it tied? It is crapola when you try to use useless stats that do not tell the whole story. Yes I get upset sometimes when he misses a glove save and yes he does it more than Kevin Regan or Casey Desmith did. All in all, he is better than you give him credit for. Please send your stats as a goalie JB as I think you may have played the position in Rochester.

Sorry Chuck - these are not good (or fair) points, they are terrible points, as they are nothing more than outlandish, faux-anecdotal hyperbole. As the only person on this entire message board who watches every Denver/UNH game I can tell you without a doubt DU goalies face far more than three scoring chances a game and the idea that well over a third of the shots Tirone faces are Grade-A, and he is constantly under siege, is simply laughable. As in all Tirone faced at Michigan State was breakaways - when he faced NONE - laughable. As in Tirone is remotely the goalie Cal Peterson is laughable. If a wrist shot from the point gets by Tirone unscreened, that puck going in does not make it a grade-A scoring chance. If he has to dive across the crease because he's way out of position, that is not him stuffing out another scoring chance - its him being out of position...

1932 - if you would like to have a discussion of Tirone based in reality, statistics and video instead of whatever fantasy world you think he plays in, we can continue this conversation. Until then, your complete departure from what has actually taken place on the ice does Tirone the biggest disservice of anyone on this board. Us Tirone 'haters' wouldn't have to come here with the facts about his production and the video evidence of his performance so often if you didn't try to pretend he is Patrick Roy playing behind a bunch of mite defenders. Do Tirone a favor and stop attempting to build him up as the second coming, perhaps his actual performance will not be so dissapointing to the 'haters'...

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BTW - speaking of facts. UNH allowed an average of 33.45 shots per game this season. So, essentially 40+...