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UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
- Thread starter Snively65
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NCAA watcher
Registered User
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
Firmly lining myself up against Chuck.How about shots on goal as the best roughest indicator, with more sophisticated stats of possession in zones.
https://www.secondcityhockey.com/2013/12/4/5167404/nhl-stats-made-simple-part-1-corsi-fenwick
And totally old school, the eyeball test, but measured based on possession and not "toughness" in the corner. I'll take possession, regardless of whether done by finesse or brawn
Firmly lining myself up against Chuck.How about shots on goal as the best roughest indicator, with more sophisticated stats of possession in zones.
https://www.secondcityhockey.com/2013/12/4/5167404/nhl-stats-made-simple-part-1-corsi-fenwick
And totally old school, the eyeball test, but measured based on possession and not "toughness" in the corner. I'll take possession, regardless of whether done by finesse or brawn
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A couple of us here like SOG.
I vaguely remember Fenwick talking about Corsi in the old HockeyL days, I think?
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
Any insight on this Yale recruit Justin Pearson out of Bishop Guertin? http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=386534
Any insight on this Yale recruit Justin Pearson out of Bishop Guertin? http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=386534
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
We have a fourth liner, Frankie Cefalu, who USCHO thinks is from Buffalo, New Hampshire.
We have a fourth liner, Frankie Cefalu, who USCHO thinks is from Buffalo, New Hampshire.
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
I was NOT talking about face-off winning percentage. I was discussing going into an offensive zone face-off with an organized plan, both if the draw is won and if the draw is lost. There is statistically a correlation between puck possession by a team and the likelihood of winning the game. Also, how a team performs the first few seconds from a face-off influences puck possession and offensive zone time. So I am just saying UNH does not have well thought out plays from face-offs which reflect in the team’s performance and their ability to win games!
Watch this weekend games, focus on offensive zone face-offs and share your thoughts afterwards.
I was NOT talking about face-off winning percentage. I was discussing going into an offensive zone face-off with an organized plan, both if the draw is won and if the draw is lost. There is statistically a correlation between puck possession by a team and the likelihood of winning the game. Also, how a team performs the first few seconds from a face-off influences puck possession and offensive zone time. So I am just saying UNH does not have well thought out plays from face-offs which reflect in the team’s performance and their ability to win games!
Watch this weekend games, focus on offensive zone face-offs and share your thoughts afterwards.
Darius
Go 'cats!
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
Didn't see or listen to the BC game, but BU dominated possession. Brutal.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
Good to see you here Darius! Been awhile. Possession of the puck? What's that? One of our biggest, on going issues. But consider yourself lucky, as we played better in that BU game than we did in the BC game.
Ray, as to your points regarding the faceoff issues? I watched the Maine v UMassy game last night and paid attention to that. I'll watch how UNH handles it this weekend (not live; just can't bring myself to drive up there alone). But I am not sure UNH has plays for that? We win so few face offs anyway. When you have talented players, they just know what to do. You can't sit back on your hands when you don't; they can't learn it on their own. Surely...there's coaching for that stuff? Right?
What I saw last night was that UMaine played like a team; the goalie is very good as we expect. Their PP wasn't that great but they managed to stave off UMass' PP attempts. (Despite the reviews that UMass played well I wasn't impressed to be honest) In the past I would be psyched to take it to them (Maine) on the PP but not this year unless that unit gets it together, but we'll see. Just some ramblings. A split would make me very happy; heck even a tie would be an improvement. Go 'Cats!
Good to see you here Darius! Been awhile. Possession of the puck? What's that?
One of our biggest, on going issues. But consider yourself lucky, as we played better in that BU game than we did in the BC game. Ray, as to your points regarding the faceoff issues? I watched the Maine v UMassy game last night and paid attention to that. I'll watch how UNH handles it this weekend (not live; just can't bring myself to drive up there alone). But I am not sure UNH has plays for that? We win so few face offs anyway. When you have talented players, they just know what to do. You can't sit back on your hands when you don't; they can't learn it on their own. Surely...there's coaching for that stuff? Right?
What I saw last night was that UMaine played like a team; the goalie is very good as we expect. Their PP wasn't that great but they managed to stave off UMass' PP attempts. (Despite the reviews that UMass played well I wasn't impressed to be honest) In the past I would be psyched to take it to them (Maine) on the PP but not this year unless that unit gets it together, but we'll see. Just some ramblings. A split would make me very happy; heck even a tie would be an improvement. Go 'Cats!
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
Oh joy we've descended into a discussion of hockey stats and so-called advanced analytics.
Things really have gotten rotten on this thread. It's what happens when you don't win for over a month.
For what it's worth, here are some random thoughts on some of the stuff discussed below:
* Plus/minus is far from perfect, but it's at least a pretty good (rough - not perfect) indicator of how players match up against like-kind players on opposing teams - the lines/pairings their coaches match them up against - and overall defensive accountability. I think, more than anything else, it exposes talented offensive players who coast on their defensive responsibilities. So I do pay attention to this one;
* Fenwick/Corsi (possession) - if you logically track the assumption that more talented players/teams spend more time with the puck, and more time with the puck should lead to more scoring chances for you (and less for your opponents), then this could be relevant. But we see some teams spending a lot of that time NOT using it to attack, and just to try to generate speed through the neutral zone, which is in my opinion overplayed (I remember when DRW started to lean on this in the Babcock era, and was never convinced it added anything). I'm sorry, I can't get excited by any of that stuff. Besides, as other posters have noted, the "eyeball test" usually detects this anyway.
* SOG's - you guys know where I stand on this. SOG's are of a wide variety of quality, and are very often skewed by game conditions, who's winning, who's losing, and who needs to take the game to the opposition, which may mean inflated SOG's for the trailing team, while the leading team is often protecting that lead to some degree, and while they may have less SOG's during that stage of a game, often they tend to be higher-quality shots, since the chances being taken by the trailing team often lead to odd-man rushes coming at the trailing team. There can be lots of fluff in SOG's too. So yeah, overall, SOG's can be pretty meaningless. Take that, 'Watcher!
* Faceoff wins - in 'Watcher's first post below, he has some excerpts in there about how this is (in the writer's opinion) an overrated stat, and I could not agree with that writer more. In short, he says too much attention is paid to the start of the play (faceoff) and too little to the extended free flowing play between the whistles. Again, bingo. More meaningless than SOG's, at least in my opinion.
----------------------
As with my "other" sport, hockey is great because it is a game with continuous extended action, and a relative shortage of stoppages and whistles. Football has suffered for this in recent years. Frankly, I can watch baseball with more interest that football these days, the NFL has gotten so bad and so ponderous. Basketball moves, but there are too many stoppages, and too many subjective calls. Hockey (and soccer) works because stoppages are limited, calls are also limited, and the rules are pretty simple. When a sport (football, and especially the NFL) constantly changes its rules, that's not a good thing. And the sooner ALL of hockey eliminates the foolish offsides replays and just trusts its on-ice officials to get most of those right, the better. The only replays I ever want to see in hockey (or soccer) is whether the puck (ball) goes into the goal. Let the officials call goalie interference live, screw those replays too. The only other area where I'm in support of replay is for retroactive suspension of players for penalized dirty hits (or dives, too).
I know that last bit was off-topic, but we seem to be bored, so let's have at it ...
Oh joy
we've descended into a discussion of hockey stats and so-called advanced analytics.Things really have gotten rotten on this thread. It's what happens when you don't win for over a month.
For what it's worth, here are some random thoughts on some of the stuff discussed below:
* Plus/minus is far from perfect, but it's at least a pretty good (rough - not perfect) indicator of how players match up against like-kind players on opposing teams - the lines/pairings their coaches match them up against - and overall defensive accountability. I think, more than anything else, it exposes talented offensive players who coast on their defensive responsibilities. So I do pay attention to this one;
* Fenwick/Corsi (possession) - if you logically track the assumption that more talented players/teams spend more time with the puck, and more time with the puck should lead to more scoring chances for you (and less for your opponents), then this could be relevant. But we see some teams spending a lot of that time NOT using it to attack, and just to try to generate speed through the neutral zone, which is in my opinion overplayed (I remember when DRW started to lean on this in the Babcock era, and was never convinced it added anything). I'm sorry, I can't get excited by any of that stuff. Besides, as other posters have noted, the "eyeball test" usually detects this anyway.
* SOG's - you guys know where I stand on this. SOG's are of a wide variety of quality, and are very often skewed by game conditions, who's winning, who's losing, and who needs to take the game to the opposition, which may mean inflated SOG's for the trailing team, while the leading team is often protecting that lead to some degree, and while they may have less SOG's during that stage of a game, often they tend to be higher-quality shots, since the chances being taken by the trailing team often lead to odd-man rushes coming at the trailing team. There can be lots of fluff in SOG's too. So yeah, overall, SOG's can be pretty meaningless. Take that, 'Watcher!
* Faceoff wins - in 'Watcher's first post below, he has some excerpts in there about how this is (in the writer's opinion) an overrated stat, and I could not agree with that writer more. In short, he says too much attention is paid to the start of the play (faceoff) and too little to the extended free flowing play between the whistles. Again, bingo. More meaningless than SOG's, at least in my opinion.
----------------------
As with my "other" sport, hockey is great because it is a game with continuous extended action, and a relative shortage of stoppages and whistles. Football has suffered for this in recent years. Frankly, I can watch baseball with more interest that football these days, the NFL has gotten so bad and so ponderous. Basketball moves, but there are too many stoppages, and too many subjective calls. Hockey (and soccer) works because stoppages are limited, calls are also limited, and the rules are pretty simple. When a sport (football, and especially the NFL) constantly changes its rules, that's not a good thing. And the sooner ALL of hockey eliminates the foolish offsides replays and just trusts its on-ice officials to get most of those right, the better. The only replays I ever want to see in hockey (or soccer) is whether the puck (ball) goes into the goal. Let the officials call goalie interference live, screw those replays too. The only other area where I'm in support of replay is for retroactive suspension of players for penalized dirty hits (or dives, too).
I know that last bit was off-topic, but we seem to be bored, so let's have at it ...
e.cat
Seasoned Veteran
Oh joy
Things really have gotten rotten on this thread. It's what happens when you don't win for over a month.
For what it's worth, here are some random thoughts on some of the stuff discussed below:
* Plus/minus is far from perfect, but it's at least a pretty good (rough - not perfect) indicator of how players match up against like-kind players on opposing teams - the lines/pairings their coaches match them up against - and overall defensive accountability. I think, more than anything else, it exposes talented offensive players who coast on their defensive responsibilities. So I do pay attention to this one;
* Fenwick/Corsi (possession) - if you logically track the assumption that more talented players/teams spend more time with the puck, and more time with the puck should lead to more scoring chances for you (and less for your opponents), then this could be relevant. But we see some teams spending a lot of that time NOT using it to attack, and just to try to generate speed through the neutral zone, which is in my opinion overplayed (I remember when DRW started to lean on this in the Babcock era, and was never convinced it added anything). I'm sorry, I can't get excited by any of that stuff. Besides, as other posters have noted, the "eyeball test" usually detects this anyway.
* SOG's - you guys know where I stand on this. SOG's are of a wide variety of quality, and are very often skewed by game conditions, who's winning, who's losing, and who needs to take the game to the opposition, which may mean inflated SOG's for the trailing team, while the leading team is often protecting that lead to some degree, and while they may have less SOG's during that stage of a game, often they tend to be higher-quality shots, since the chances being taken by the trailing team often lead to odd-man rushes coming at the trailing team. There can be lots of fluff in SOG's too. So yeah, overall, SOG's can be pretty meaningless. Take that, 'Watcher!
* Faceoff wins - in 'Watcher's first post below, he has some excerpts in there about how this is (in the writer's opinion) an overrated stat, and I could not agree with that writer more. In short, he says too much attention is paid to the start of the play (faceoff) and too little to the extended free flowing play between the whistles. Again, bingo. More meaningless than SOG's, at least in my opinion.
----------------------
As with my "other" sport, hockey is great because it is a game with continuous extended action, and a relative shortage of stoppages and whistles. Football has suffered for this in recent years. Frankly, I can watch baseball with more interest that football these days, the NFL has gotten so bad and so ponderous. Basketball moves, but there are too many stoppages, and too many subjective calls. Hockey (and soccer) works because stoppages are limited, calls are also limited, and the rules are pretty simple. When a sport (football, and especially the NFL) constantly changes its rules, that's not a good thing. And the sooner ALL of hockey eliminates the foolish offsides replays and just trusts its on-ice officials to get most of those right, the better. The only replays I ever want to see in hockey (or soccer) is whether the puck (ball) goes into the goal. Let the officials call goalie interference live, screw those replays too. The only other area where I'm in support of replay is for retroactive suspension of players for penalized dirty hits (or dives, too).
I know that last bit was off-topic, but we seem to be bored, so let's have at it ...
The only stat that's relevant this weekend is the score! Tough hill to climb for this group upta Maine. I'm expecting a Maine sweep but am open to an upset possibility!
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
That's the spirit e.cat! At least the feed is free and it's watchable. No idea what to expect but I have a pretty good idea if we keep playing the way we have against a team that is doing well for the time being. No better time than the present to surprise us 'Cats!!!
That's the spirit e.cat! At least the feed is free and it's watchable. No idea what to expect but I have a pretty good idea if we keep playing the way we have against a team that is doing well for the time being. No better time than the present to surprise us 'Cats!!!
e.cat
Seasoned Veteran
I keep thinking that Salvaggio said not too long ago that this is the best team he's played on since coming to UNH. It's been all down hill ever since. Go figure!
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
Those were his comments after the RPI game when he had 2 goals (if I have that right) and the 'Cats won 6-3. I raised my eyebrows on that one, considering who was on the team his Freshman year....you remember, that was the last year we went to the Gahden....? Beat PC in OT to get there?
You know what bothers me about this team right now? Their lack of playing like they have nothing to lose. Every game they go in from here on out they need to play that way. Teams that do that at least have a shot at making something happen. I'm not sure this team has that in them and for me at least, THAT is the most disappointing thing at this stage of the game. That 14/15 team played with grit and hustle most of the time. We took care of teams like UConn. Heck, those were the days!
Those were his comments after the RPI game when he had 2 goals (if I have that right) and the 'Cats won 6-3. I raised my eyebrows on that one, considering who was on the team his Freshman year....you remember, that was the last year we went to the Gahden....? Beat PC in OT to get there?
You know what bothers me about this team right now? Their lack of playing like they have nothing to lose. Every game they go in from here on out they need to play that way. Teams that do that at least have a shot at making something happen. I'm not sure this team has that in them and for me at least, THAT is the most disappointing thing at this stage of the game. That 14/15 team played with grit and hustle most of the time. We took care of teams like UConn. Heck, those were the days!
e.cat
Seasoned Veteran
Those were his comments after the RPI game when he had 2 goals (if I have that right) and the 'Cats won 6-3. I raised my eyebrows on that one, considering who was on the team his Freshman year....you remember, that was the last year we went to the Gahden....? Beat PC in OT to get there?
You know what bothers me about this team right now? Their lack of playing like they have nothing to lose. Every game they go in from here on out they need to play that way. Teams that do that at least have a shot at making something happen. I'm not sure this team has that in them and for me at least, THAT is the most disappointing thing at this stage of the game. That 14/15 team played with grit and hustle most of the time. We took care of teams like UConn. Heck, those were the days!
Yeah. I was at that PC game. Didn't Goumas have the goal to win it? Those were the days alright! And we thought we had it bad then.....
Yup, Salvaggio, much better team this year, now that the puck hogs TyK and Cleland are gone.
And, who has the team's worst +/-?
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HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
Goumas had 2 goals in that one, Agosta, the other. yeah, isn't that a hoot...There were some great players on both of those teams, and, in watching the highlights, it was sad to note that PC's Drew Brown played in that game as well. This was the 13/14 season; Goumas graduated that season. Sal's freshman year's team also went to the Gahden in '15 winning at PC in OT from a goal by Jay Camper (Pesce assist) Here's the highlights featuring Kevin G and his two goals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KOY3Qfby4Q
Ps. Call me crazy but Eric MacAdams kind of reminds me of Kevin in his gutsy play. He's got that same jump in his skating and nose for the puck.
Goumas had 2 goals in that one, Agosta, the other. yeah, isn't that a hoot...There were some great players on both of those teams, and, in watching the highlights, it was sad to note that PC's Drew Brown played in that game as well. This was the 13/14 season; Goumas graduated that season. Sal's freshman year's team also went to the Gahden in '15 winning at PC in OT from a goal by Jay Camper (Pesce assist) Here's the highlights featuring Kevin G and his two goals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KOY3Qfby4Q
Ps. Call me crazy but Eric MacAdams kind of reminds me of Kevin in his gutsy play. He's got that same jump in his skating and nose for the puck.
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HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
It was the space that TyK created on the ice that led to prob. 90% of those PP goals that padded his season (last year) for which he (TyK) was roundly criticized for. And don't get me wrong; Sal is a capable player. I think it's a shame his Sr. year hasn't been stellar (to date). Who knows...there's still time to have a 'happy Senior Year' and I hope they do.
It was the space that TyK created on the ice that led to prob. 90% of those PP goals that padded his season (last year) for which he (TyK) was roundly criticized for. And don't get me wrong; Sal is a capable player. I think it's a shame his Sr. year hasn't been stellar (to date). Who knows...there's still time to have a 'happy Senior Year' and I hope they do.
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e.cat
Seasoned Veteran
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
Meanwhile upta Maine:
http://bangordailynews.com/2018/01/...ise-more-than-4k-to-buy-maine-pony-new-*****/
Meanwhile upta Maine:
http://bangordailynews.com/2018/01/...ise-more-than-4k-to-buy-maine-pony-new-*****/
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues
I don't know what's more sad; this story or the one about Stephen King losing his manuscripts...
#OnlyInMaine
I don't know what's more sad; this story or the one about Stephen King losing his manuscripts...
#OnlyInMaine
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e.cat
Seasoned Veteran
i don't know what's more sad; this story or the one about stephen king losing his manuscripts...:d
lol
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