UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

When I say entitled I mean showing up against Army and MC with poor efforts that indicate an expectation wins against the two will just come. When they beat UML they put out 60 minute efforts from the drop of the puck. They didn't do that this weekend - I hate to question effort, I think it is questioned to often following losses, but this didn't look like the team we saw earlier this year who attributed its success to effort and having something to prove...

If they think they've already proven or accomplished something, they're wrong. And I suspect they learned as much this weekend - hopefully that means better performances starting in Hanover. Losing games to teams you shouldn't happens sometimes - getting buried in 3-1 holes on consecutive nights is hard to accept...

Am hearing what you are saying; looking past a team (and I think esp in this sport) is a big no no. And as for getting down 3-1 not a good look. Thanks for clarifying that's pretty much what I thought you meant. Crazy those scores were the same and they had the same dilemma both nights...Watching the game re-caps it's almost like shock, or realization of what they did not do to get the job done. I didn't see the Army game but my seat mates said the game wasn't as bad we just didn't bury our chances and DT didn't have the support he's seen lately. We had our chances to tie it in the 3rd but too little, too late but made it interesting the last few minutes. 60 minutes...the dream of hockey coaches everywhere!

On another note, while an extremely small sample, any comments about Mike R getting out there? 12 saves. I was glad to see him and hope he gets more chances as he's our guy next year.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

Not to be the annoying "told ya so" type ... but I think both games showed the importance of playing with a lead as opposed to amassing an edge - small OR large - in SOG's, no?

Couldn't agree more with Dan on the "entitled" look of UNH, in both games (at least on the replays I saw).

 

[Greg Ambrose]

When I say entitled I mean showing up against Army and MC with poor efforts that indicate an expectation wins against the two will just come. When they beat UML they put out 60 minute efforts from the drop of the puck. They didn't do that this weekend - I hate to question effort, I think it is questioned to often following losses, but this didn't look like the team we saw earlier this year who attributed its success to effort and having something to prove...

If they think they've already proven or accomplished something, they're wrong. And I suspect they learned as much this weekend - hopefully that means better performances starting in Hanover. Losing games to teams you shouldn't happens sometimes - getting buried in 3-1 holes on consecutive nights is hard to accept...

The only excuse I’ll give them is that a lot of their key pieces are very young. I am miffed at Gildon for his sometimes indifferent play but I have to remember he is 18 (or did he just have a birthday?). The way UNH played this weekend screamed for having a veteran goaltender, a senior who has been through the wars and knows how to be a calming presence. Oh wait. He got pulled yesterday? Really. What were the circumstances? Warranted?

 

[Dan]

The only excuse I’ll give them is that a lot of their key pieces are very young. I am miffed at Gildon for his sometimes indifferent play but I have to remember he is 18 (or did he just have a birthday?). The way UNH played this weekend screamed for having a veteran goaltender, a senior who has been through the wars and knows how to be a calming presence. Oh wait. He got pulled yesterday? Really. What were the circumstances? Warranted?

He's had a good season, but the goalie was awful this weekend. Two softies each night - at bad times - and a third in each game played very poorly though each may have been goals anyway. Hopefully, for his sake and the teams' just a weekend aberration and not a sign of things to come. Definitely warrented, the numbers I posted earlier were his stats for the weekend...

Gildon doesn't turn 19 until after the season (May) - he only recently turned 18.5...

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

The only excuse I’ll give them is that a lot of their key pieces are very young. I am miffed at Gildon for his sometimes indifferent play but I have to remember he is 18 (or did he just have a birthday?). The way UNH played this weekend screamed for having a veteran goaltender, a senior who has been through the wars and knows how to be a calming presence. Oh wait. He got pulled yesterday? Really. What were the circumstances? Warranted?

Someone finally said it. Amen. Playing experience matters. (at this level) And when you look at how much playing time players like Sal got their frosh year? Just a thought...Personally I was surprised that DT was pulled; not that he should not have been, but that hasn't always been the typical move when we've been down. Made sense, and was totally appropriate.

 

[Dan]

Someone finally said it. Amen. And when you look at how much playing time players like Sal got their frosh year?

Not to be 'negative' - and I suppose 'key players' is the subjective qualifier here - but UNH has a SR goalie, three SR defensemen, two first-line SRs who combined for 80 points on the first line last year and a '2b' line of a SR and two JRs...

They have plenty of experienced and proven players amongst their upperclassmen - who, may take a back seat in general talent to the underclassmen but absolutely have to contribute for this team to be successful. And aside from any contributions their JOB as upperclassmen is to make sure the team is ready to play every night and/or set the tone with ply of their own...

Even Wyse, Blackburn, Grasso and BVR have all played well over 50 games at UNH - filling primary roles from day one.

Of course the two FR D have been thrown right into the fire - but a hard-luck +/- last night and a bad Fri turnover for Gildon aside - the goals against problems this weekend were on the G and the F's (exactly what they identified and worked on coming into and early in the season), in my opinion, and two areas where they aren't that young...

---

They also got stoned on a number of offensive chances this weekend - I'm talking about one on one with the goalie or gaping net type chances. The offensive 'leader' now has five goals this season - all coming in a total of three games. Which means he's on pace for half his production from last year and has been a non-factor on the scoresheet 14 out of 17 nights....

Dramatically lifting his linemates was my pro-Hobey argument for him at the time and its been further proven this season - TK was the dominant player in college hockey last year...

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

Not to be 'negative' - and I suppose 'key players' is the subjective qualifier here - but UNH has a SR goalie, three SR defensemen, two first-line SRs who combined for 80 points on the first line last year and a '2b' line of a SR and two JRs...

They have plenty of experienced and proven players amongst their upperclassmen - who, may take a back seat in general talent to the underclassmen but absolutely have to contribute for this team to be successful. And aside from any contributions their JOB as upperclassmen is to make sure the team is ready to play every night and/or set the tone with ply of their own...

Even Wyse, Blackburn, Grasso and BVR have all played well over 50 games at UNH - filling primary roles from day one.

Of course the two FR D have been thrown right into the fire - but a hard-luck +/- last night and a bad Fri turnover for Gildon aside - the goals against problems this weekend were on the G and the F's (exactly what they identified and worked on coming into and early in the season), in my opinion, and two areas where they aren't that young...

---

They also got stoned on a number of offensive chances this weekend - I'm talking about one on one with the goalie or gaping net type chances. The offensive 'leader' now has five goals this season - all coming in a total of three games. Which means he's on pace for half his production from last year and has been a non-factor on the scoresheet 14 out of 17 nights....

Dramatically lifting his linemates was my pro-Hobey argument for him at the time and its been further proven this season - TK was the dominant player in college hockey last year...

Lots of good points here Dan I thought about my post for a bit and while I do agree there's youth in some positions as you / Greg pointed out, the others you mentioned like BvR et al, is correct. That being said they got playtime pretty much from the get go (and deservedly so) while players like McNick (whom I advocated for on this board along with a few others) languished in the stands as frosh, if my memory serves. TK...yep, no question. Dominant is right.

Ps. I would hope/expect/think the upperclassmen have a big role in preparing that team each night. As of late I have noticed Anthony Wyse taking more of a role in that on/off ice. Absolutely what needs to happen esp from here on out.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

What do you suppose would be our record so far this season without Gildon and Maass?

UNH actually got some decent numbers from four of eight frosh four years ago, not including the two goalies.

Games, goals+assists=points
Poturalski, 40, 14+15=29
Foegeli, 34, 5+11=16
Eiserman, 35, 4+11=15
Marks, 40, 1+10=11
McNicholas, 14, 0+0=3
Boyd, 24, 0+0=3
Salvaggio, 18, 0+0=2
Chanter, 8, 0+0=2

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

Amidst several good points ... methinks there is a certain aspect of the team currently being overlooked in the blame pie assessment for this past weekend's cupcake-laced debacles.

Hints: they are the only folks in the equation actually getting paid, and they look like this ...

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

Amidst several good points ... methinks there is a certain aspect of the team currently being overlooked in the blame pie assessment for this past weekend's cupcake-laced debacles.

Hints: they are the only folks in the equation actually getting paid, and they look like this ...

Sure can't speak for them and think the team feels pretty down about it...hope they can recover over their break...lots of games left! Here's Foster's latest:

http://www.fosters.com/sports/20171211/wildcats-end-first-half-with-letdown

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

Amidst several good points ... methinks there is a certain aspect of the team currently being overlooked in the blame pie assessment for this past weekend's cupcake-laced debacles.

Hints: they are the only folks in the equation actually getting paid, and they look like this ...

So when Gildon coughs up the puck at his own blue line, that's on Umile?

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

So when Gildon coughs up the puck at his own blue line, that's on Umile?

No ... but when Gildon and his teammates come out with no intensity from the outset in the last two games, seemingly thinking their opponents aren't worthy of sharing the ice with them ... yeah, it's on all three coaches, too.

But while we're on the subject, now that you've mentioned it ... let's agree that Gildon's first giveaway gaffe that cost them the game to Colorado College was 100% on Gildon alone. But now we've seen further such episodes, AND at key junctures of more recent games UNH has lost. Thinking aloud here ... isn't it in the coaches' collective job descriptions to ... y'know ... coach, as in correcting mistakes, etc.??



OR is it just up to Coach Umile to set the lines/pairings and whistle for changes, while the other two recruit future players (though this part of their job descriptions seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle as of late)???

'Cuz if it's the latter, that would explain a lot.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

No ... but when Gildon and his teammates come out with no intensity from the outset in the last two games, seemingly thinking their opponents aren't worthy of sharing the ice with them ... yeah, it's on all three coaches, too.

But while we're on the subject, now that you've mentioned it ... let's agree that Gildon's first giveaway gaffe that cost them the game to Colorado College was 100% on Gildon alone. But now we've seen further such episodes, AND at key junctures of more recent games UNH has lost. Thinking aloud here ... isn't it in the coaches' collective job descriptions to ... y'know ... coach, as in correcting mistakes, etc.??



OR is it just up to Coach Umile to set the lines/pairings and whistle for changes, while the other two recruit future players (though this part of their job descriptions seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle as of late)???

'Cuz if it's the latter, that would explain a lot.

They may have looked past these two teams (possibly, don't know) but I hardly think they looked down on them, really? But I do agree on the correcting the miscues from our Dman...or at least, work toward that end. Chuck you are/have been a coach for a very long time, and even in my short stint as one, I will say one thing and it's 'you can't play for them'.

I'm not trying to get the 'Cats off the hook believe me these two hurt but sometimes who knows why a team behaves the way they do. That being said, they sure gotta get going (which I'm sure they are aware).

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

What do you suppose would be our record so far this season without Gildon and Maass?

UNH actually got some decent numbers from four of eight frosh four years ago, not including the two goalies.

Games, goals+assists=points
Poturalski, 40, 14+15=29
Foegeli, 34, 5+11=16
Eiserman, 35, 4+11=15
Marks, 40, 1+10=11
McNicholas, 14, 0+0=3
Boyd, 24, 0+0=3
Salvaggio, 18, 0+0=2
Chanter, 8, 0+0=2

I am fine blaming the coaches, but not the 18 yo and 19 yo on the blue line. Gildon (7G+8A=15P) has only 1 fewer points than Foegeli, a forward, and Maass (1G+11A=12G) has the same number of points as Marks as frosh four years ago, in half as many games as Foegeli, and 23 fewer games than Marks, respectively. Without their offense, our record could easily be 5-10-2, rather than 9-7-1 (and, yes, I am converting the CC loss to a tie for Gildon's hairball). I am converting the first UML W to a L, changing the UVM tie to a L, converting the second Colgate W to a tie, changing the CC W to a L, and the RPI W to a tie.

Early last summer, I and a few others were predicting a single digit number of wins for this season, which is still possible, but highly unlikely at this point. Several folks on the off season threads predicted that Umile had no chance at reaching the NRN, and some speculated that BS35+5 might let him come back for another season to complete the Quest (before that term was upgraded to March). Get a grip, folks; this team has way outperformed all expectations so far, just as 32 predicted.

Edit: I forgot to mention Tirone. Until this past weekend, he has played far better in net than I think anyone expected this season (see earlier posts for his stats leading up to the past two games). So, cupcakes or not in OOC and HE games, I think that this team is in a far better position than I thought they would be in going into the holidays. That said, if we get swept in Hanover at the end of the month, then all bets are off for a winning record this season, let alone home ice in the MBPBEGAN round.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

If anything, the coaches are doing right by Gildon to NOT reign him in and coach the skill/daring out of him. It's better for his development and for both the short and long term well-being of the team.

He is a one-man breakout. So he turns it over a few times now and then. How many chances and goals are also generated by his starting the rush or making a long first-pass. How many of his breakouts would have never happened last season, resulting in pucks kept in the zone and ultimately ending up in the UNH net? He's a net positive now (easily) and by letting him play his game he will be even more dangerous down the stretch and into next season...

I mean the ceiling this year is probably a bunch of wins against a weak schedule, a second round HE play-off appearance and *maybe* making the NCAA tourney and losing to a one-seed....?

Do we really want to stifle the development of our two young D in an effort to hit that 'paper' ceiling? I don't - and I don't think it helps this year to do so anyway. I'd rather see players making occasional mistakes, but taking chances, learning and getting better (as he makes mistakes he'll learn when to keep it simple)...

And let's be honest - Gildon is playing great, without even considering his age. The fact that he's under a microscope is a testament to how well he's played and how high he's set his own expectations...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

To Dan's point, but also by extension to some of the other responses as it applies to Gildon and the coaches ... eliminating the really poor judgment plays he has tried (and failed) to make at critical junctures MUST be the next part of his development, and I think it's the wrong approach just to throw your hands up, and say "he will learn from his mistakes, and be better for it". This is NOT a Bobby Orr-level talent, but sometimes he (Gildon) seems to think he is, and forgets that he's playing against some other very good players at the D-1 level, who have made him pay for some casual-looking but deadly mistakes that will cost his team points.

First time it happens, or maybe the second time, sure, live and learn, we trust you, etc. There is no question he is the best at moving the puck out of his own end that UNH has had in recent years. A godsend, given the issues especially over the last two seasons. But if you are his coach ... how many times do you watch him make the same mistake before you say something? Or do you keep watching the kid take the same high risk/low reward chances while carrying the puck out of his own end under tight pressure?? And if you don't fix it now, then aren't you doing not only your team a disservice, but also setting the player up for future disappointment when he moves to the next level?

I've been fortunate to have worked with several players who have gone on to the next level, and almost to a person, they have wanted to be coached "hard". You see other examples of that with the best teams and the best players, even at the pro level. Respectfully, I think perhaps some of our posters' willingness to take a "hands off" approach with someone like Gildon reflects to some degree how rarely we've seen a player with his skills skating in UNH colors in recent years. But - news flash - he is not the only player out there in D-1 hockey who is capable of doing what he does. Hardly. And my guess is that guys like York, Quinn, Montgomery, etc. don't just lean back and say "let's not mess with the kid" and they DO rein him in to some degree. And kids usually benefit from that process, and emerge as better players.

Gildon has been an impact player for UNH, no doubt. And despite this past weekend, UNH is still running (slightly) ahead of schedule. But there is always room for improvement. And with all due respect, if the best approach our coaching staff can come up with for Gildon is for a hands off approach, then I think that's disappointing. Now IF they ARE coaching him on ridding these errors from his game, and he's not applying it in games, that's a different story, calling for an entirely different coaching solution (i.e. ranging from reduced minutes to a night in the stands). Which the coaches (especially Souza) may be reluctant to do, if he thinks being "stern" will drive the kid out of the program.

Whichever way you slice it, I don't see how anyone can give the coaches a pass on last weekend's games. It may be secondary to a single player, several players, or the whole team ... but if your team has back-to-back home games against very beatable opponents - after a pair of wins against PC and RPI - and finds a way to boot them both away with what many folks on here (including myself) commented was at least in part due to a less energetic approach than the one that netted them some key early season wins ... why are the coaches excused??

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

Gildon a Godsend? You better believe it he is! Both he and Benton Maaas have brought life to the blue line, as well as the uptick in Anthony Wyse's game. We've been pining for a skating dman for awhile now. I had a strange thought (haha, who, me?) after one of the turnovers and thought 'he's just looking for that break out player he's used to passing to' since that's not our usual. We tend to make the outlet pass to the sides; which is why I think we don't always clear our zone out the way most teams tend to (by skating it out, having a break out player). Players come to us with YEARS of past coaching, game experiences; maybe taking care of the puck has been his challenge? (ya think HR?)

Unless we are on an odd man rush seems our break outs tend to run that way. Max's talent is changing how that goes; I chose another seat at the MC game for the 3rd (to hang out with Snively65) and the view of the game allowed me to see him better. For the most part, or better part, he's able to do what we've been missing. I love the way he methodically works and he isn't afraid to take on the puck, instead of sending it into the neutral zone where are forwards are often covered. Anyway...he's human folks! He's made this team so much better. I doubt his gaffes have been met with silence.

Blame for the coaches? Hmm...where should it go? To me when a team loses you have to look at the big picture so sure, I suppose you would/could include them as well. But, where, what, and how is the tricky part. It was acknowledged by Coach U that 'some people weren't ready'. Not sure who that is specifically but as a whole, we chased the games all weekend. DT didn't have his best outings (and, heck, he's done so well all season; lest we forget and thanks for pointing that out Snively65) I'm very excited for the second half. How they rebound with Dartmouth/ Yale will speak volumes.

Ps...let's also consider that both teams were hungry for a win. Dennehy (sp and too lazy to look it up) gave certain MC players "locker room" duty for their poor performances. Guess those players didn't want that to happen again. Seems like both Army/MC goalies stepped up. At least give the 'Cats credit for trying to get back into both games. Not like they were shut out...(but they still should've swept the weekend).

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

I'm not sure where 'not reigning him in' became 'don't coach him'. You can clearly coach Gildon and also allow him to do what he does best, which is move the puck, limit time spent in the D zone and create offensive rushes and chances. They can work on his puck control and passing skills, they can create breakout situations in practice and simulate game situations, etc. I'm sure they are doing all of this. In the meantime, you let Gildon play his game. You don't coach him to pick up the puck behind the net and make the simple pass to the wing every time or flip (turnover) pucks into the neutral zone. His occasional mistakes do not trump the numerous strong breakouts and rushes he makes every night. You work with him to identify plays and his options. You do not squelch his ability and creativity. He's not the typical run of the mill D that UNH has had over the last few years - you recruited him for that very reason and now many want to turn him into the same basic player they've had recently? The guy who doesn't take chances breaking the puck out, resulting in the puck never getting out? Ridiculous...

Lets be honest about the turnovers that have people most upset - the CC and Army turnovers are cases where Gildon simply lost control of the puck. Again, you can work with him on handling the puck in tight spaces and discuss opportunities to make more simple plays, etc. What you cannot do - and you should know this Chuck - is coach a player not to make physical mistakes. You'll end up with a nervous player who will either make more mistakes or take no chances whatsoever. The day UNH reigns Gildon in, rather than working with him on how to better maximize his skill-set and become more dangerous is the day every last one of them should be fired. Fortunately, they're smarter than that. I have no doubt, they'll continue to support his daring, creative play and then review each play with him regarding what worked or what didn't and what alternatives were available to him. That is coaching. Micromanaging his breakout because he has a couple glaring turnovers, to date, is not...

You don't take a consistent HR hitter and try to turn him into a slapping, singles hitter because you're tired of the occasional strike out. You work on pitch recognition and plate discipline, while encouraging him to do what s/he does best. Or maybe a better analogy is, I'm tired of you making errors on defense so try not to get to so many balls...

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

The question I had was in response to the default position many on this board have had for the better part of two decades. When the team performs well, it's the players. When the team performs poorly, it's the coaches. While I would never want to stifle Gildon or, for that matter, Maas, somewhere along the line there has to have been some wisdom imparted that, on the blue line or in your own zone, the primary objective is to take care of the puck. If you see the chance to break out, fine, do it. But don't make the hero move. Of course, recognizing the difference comes with wisdom and a recognition of what your capabilities are compared to the opposition. I don't want Gildon nervous with the puck, ever. But anyone who has watched him knows that he's not 100% attentive at all times. Just not.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

The question I had was in response to the default position many on this board have had for the better part of two decades. When the team performs well, it's the players. When the team performs poorly, it's the coaches. While I would never want to stifle Gildon or, for that matter, Maas, somewhere along the line there has to have been some wisdom imparted that, on the blue line or in your own zone, the primary objective is to take care of the puck. If you see the chance to break out, fine, do it. But don't make the hero move. Of course, recognizing the difference comes with wisdom and a recognition of what your capabilities are compared to the opposition. I don't want Gildon nervous with the puck, ever. But anyone who has watched him knows that he's not 100% attentive at all times. Just not.

The bold part above, I agree completely with. You don't have to "rein in" a talented player to eliminate some dumb plays he might make. Those concepts are not mutually exclusive. I'm pretty sure Scotty Bowman didn't have to "rein in" Nick Lidstrom - who I'm sure we can all agree is a Top Five all-time defenseman - but I'm sure as heck he reamed him a new one on the rare occasions Mr. Perfect messed up. Which in turn made Lidstrom an even better player.

It's not that complicated, but it seems some folks on here either don't trust the player to accept some tough coaching ... or don't trust the coaches to know enough to improve the player. Maybe both? I'd like to think a kid with Gildon's talent and pro aspirations would be willing and able to take constructively critical stuff on board to get better.

Let's face it - the kid only came here after he fell down the pecking order at Wisconsin, and it's pretty clear after his first 17 games at UNH that a shortage of raw talent wasn't the reason Granato let him basically walk. So ... isn't it in the mutual best interests of the player and the program to look at the areas where the kid has come up wanting from time to time, and make some improvements that further develop the player? Or are we afraid that some "tough love" (if even necessary) is going to reduce Gildon to a puddle of goo, and send the kid skittering to Major Junior like Foegele a couple of years ago??

Everyone makes mistakes. The best learn from them, and minimize future recurrences. And for what it's worth ... this whole concept about kids getting "nervous" when someone points out their mistakes, my lord ... I know we're living in different times now, but these kids are running at each other on skates at high speed, banging into the boards, whacking each other with sticks, while pucks are whizzing by OR at them at 90+ MPH, with a real risk of injury every time they step on the ice ... and it's constructive criticism and/or coaching instruction that's going to make them "nervous"? Really??