UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Also mentioned that Coach U won his 350th HE game (since we are into following the numbers here).

No getting out of line with *other* round numbers, HR. Double secret probation may be in the offing ...

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

No getting out of line with *other* round numbers, HR. Double secret probation may be in the offing ...

...extends wrist (s) for proverbial slap.. happy Halloween!!

 

[phb]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Question.

Moved from the area 7-8 years ago. Gave up tickets. Have followed the woes of the program on the board. Caught a few games on tv. But just how bad is it from a fan interest perspective.

I remember Snively rocking. And while the Whit wasn't that, we had good crowds. Turned on the Mack game on youtube this morning and all I saw were empty seats. So what is the true size of the crowd at a game like this?

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Question.

Moved from the area 7-8 years ago. Gave up tickets. Have followed the woes of the program on the board. Caught a few games on tv. But just how bad is it from a fan interest perspective.

I remember Snively rocking. And while the Whit wasn't that, we had good crowds. Turned on the Mack game on youtube this morning and all I saw were empty seats. So what is the true size of the crowd at a game like this?

True size crowd is a most elusive stat (or so it seems but hey what do I know about these things as Sonar likes to say...) but I'm having a super hard time believing there were 3500 as stated...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Question.

Moved from the area 7-8 years ago. Gave up tickets. Have followed the woes of the program on the board. Caught a few games on tv. But just how bad is it from a fan interest perspective.

I remember Snively rocking. And while the Whit wasn't that, we had good crowds. Turned on the Mack game on youtube this morning and all I saw were empty seats. So what is the true size of the crowd at a game like this?

Welcome back! I'll let others who attend more frequently these days answer your question ... but from my standpoint, it's shocking just how far local interest in the program has fallen. And it's not just the "butts in the seats" issue - it just seems the folks whose jobs you may think would include drumming up (or even simply maintaining) interest in the program have become apathetic and disinterested. It's my biggest beef with the guy in charge of the whole operation ... I mean, the guy arrived pretty much simultaneously in his job at UNH with the arrival of the Monarchs in Manchester, and he's been seemingly content all along in ceding his hockey "market share" to the Monarchs ever since. I know several families who live within a 5-10 minute drive of campus who have kids who are heavily into athletics, and when they talk about going to see live hockey, and you ask if they're going to The Whitt at UNH to see live Hockey East action ... the looks you'll get make it abundantly clear they've never heard of it - they're talking strictly Bruins or Monarchs.

UNH Hockey used to be New Hampshire's team. The energy at Snively, the year on the road while The Whitt was under construction, all the concerns about being able to fill a building almost twice the size of Snively, and the first few years in the new building, right up through the first (almost spontaneous) "White Out The Whitt" against Walshy's boys from UMaine at the end of the '99 season, a waiting list for season tix numbering in the thousands, and some serious discussion about arena expansion. All gone ... gradually and I won't recount the various reasons (I'm sure most posters are already at me by this point) but all gone nonetheless.

My guess is you can fit most crowds so far this season comfortably into Snively with a thousand empty seats to spare.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Welcome back! I'll let others who attend more frequently these days answer your question ... but from my standpoint, it's shocking just how far local interest in the program has fallen. And it's not just the "butts in the seats" issue - it just seems the folks whose jobs you may think would include drumming up (or even simply maintaining) interest in the program have become apathetic and disinterested. It's my biggest beef with the guy in charge of the whole operation ... I mean, the guy arrived pretty much simultaneously in his job at UNH with the arrival of the Monarchs in Manchester, and he's been seemingly content all along in ceding his hockey "market share" to the Monarchs ever since. I know several families who live within a 5-10 minute drive of campus who have kids who are heavily into athletics, and when they talk about going to see live hockey, and you ask if they're going to The Whitt at UNH to see live Hockey East action ... the looks you'll get make it abundantly clear they've never heard of it - they're talking strictly Bruins or Monarchs.

UNH Hockey used to be New Hampshire's team. The energy at Snively, the year on the road while The Whitt was under construction, all the concerns about being able to fill a building almost twice the size of Snively, and the first few years in the new building, right up through the first (almost spontaneous) "White Out The Whitt" against Walshy's boys from UMaine at the end of the '99 season, a waiting list for season tix numbering in the thousands, and some serious discussion about arena expansion. All gone ... gradually and I won't recount the various reasons (I'm sure most posters are already at me by this point) but all gone nonetheless.

My guess is you can fit most crowds so far this season comfortably into Snively with a thousand empty seats to spare.

Chuck curious just how many could Snively seat??

 

[Snively65]

Chuck curious just how many could Snively seat??

I think that Snively's seating capacity was 3500 for hockey, expanded to 4500 for a Phish concert in 1994 before conversion. But, the Quonset-hut style played much louder than nearly double the capacity at the Whitt. I doubt that there were more than 2500 bodies in seats at the Mac game on Saturday night, so that pretty much is what Chuck suggests. However, I think that the lack of attendance is not simply alums dying off or bailing on a lousy product on the ice, but also much less interest by students in evening activities beyond their dorm rooms. From when the Whitt opened in 1995 through the glory years in the early 2000's, students filled both ends of the arena, close to 2000 seats. In contrast, on Saturday night there were probably fewer than 300 students, including the band. Yet, without them, the place would be as quiet as a morgue.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

I think that Snively's seating capacity was 3500 for hockey, expanded to 4500 for a Phish concert in 1994 before conversion. But, the Quonset-hut style played much louder than nearly double the capacity at the Whitt. I doubt that there were more than 2500 bodies in seats at the Mac game on Saturday night, so that pretty much is what Chuck suggests. However, I think that the lack of attendance is not simply alums dying off or bailing on a lousy product on the ice, but also much less interest by students in evening activities beyond their dorm rooms. From when the Whitt opened in 1995 through the glory years in the early 2000's, students filled both ends of the arena, close to 2000 seats. In contrast, on Saturday night there were probably fewer than 300 students, including the band. Yet, without them, the place would be as quiet as a morgue.

Wondered if Halloween festivities had anything to do with the fewer students...but since we sit in 101 we usually have "spill over" with students but that hasn't happened in a couple of seasons. I will say tho more people have been sitting in our section; we usually have a crowd there. Also kind of confused about the Monarch/UNH mention...we talking about sponsorships? Guess I kind of by pass those posts sorry...All I know is I'd like to park in the Alumni Center

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Wondered if Halloween festivities had anything to do with the fewer students...but since we sit in 101 we usually have "spill over" with students but that hasn't happened in a couple of seasons. I will say tho more people have been sitting in our section; we usually have a crowd there. Also kind of confused about the Monarch/UNH mention...we talking about sponsorships? Guess I kind of by pass those posts sorry...All I know is I'd like to park in the Alumni Center

Simply put ... UNH Hockey had the State of New Hampshire (and arguably the southernmost tip of Maine?) to itself for a long, long time, until the Monarchs arrived with the construction of the Verizon/SNHU Arena in Manchester just after the turn of the century. I'm not sure the folks at UNH did anything great even before then to attract attention to what has (at least for most of my 50+ years) been its flagship athletics program, but the long-time hockey roots in the state - combined with a limited local supply of high profile hockey located only in Durham until 2001 - focused things on UNH Hockey for the statewide market, with little (if any) competition. Right place, right time, etc.

When the Monarchs arrived - and this was just over 5+ years after The Whitt had been opened in a sensationally successful way - I would argue one of the reasons they were able to do this (and arguably one of the reasons the Verizon/SNHU was even built primarily for hockey) was that they'd seen the folks in Durham take a calculated risk in expanding a 3,500 seat arena into a 6,000+ seat arena, filling it regularly every game AND having a well-publicized waiting list for season tickets well into the thousands. Supply and demand - UNH had the supply and an enormous demand for tickets, which did lead to some discussion (albeit briefly and probably never seriously within UNH admin) of the capacity for expanding The Whitt to soak up more of the waiting list. I don't think it's a stretch to say that back then, if The Whitt had been expanded to a 10,000 seat arena, it still would have been packed to capacity. The first few Riverstone trips to Manchester pretty much confirmed that. Heady days, indeed.

But with the Monarchs' arrival, and with most of the state's population being closer to Manchester than to the Seacoast, the folks in Durham HAD to know the longer the Monarchs were in town, the doubling of the in-state hockey "supply" would gradually drain some of the pent-up demand UNH Hockey had enjoyed when it was highly successful on the ice AND in the stands due to high demand for their product. But as the quality of the UNH product slowly but steadily deteriorated ... demand for the tickets began to slip, and the availability of right-priced entertainment in Manchester provided more than double the previous supply (and with most AHL games being weekenders, directly pitted against the weekend-heavy UNH schedule). And when the recession hit a few years later, saving on the travel costs to Durham made the trip for many to Manchester even easier (if not necessary).

While this sea change was going on with the NH statewide hockey market ... what was UNH doing to compete with the Monarchs to at the very least retain its fanbase? Silly crap, pretty much. I'll let the long-time season ticket holders recount the voluminous trail of slights they've been subjected to back when UNH tried to leverage its waiting list against them by cooking up continuous schemes to extract more money from the loyal fanbase. And in retrospect, I've found it highly ironic that when our beloved AD cracked down on the long-standing crowd chants for not being of the PC "family friendly" variety AND began to have editorial control over the playlist - not to mention having the band playing over the crowd chants at the opposing starting line-up - it all hinted at overprotecting a "family" market at The Whitt that the program and its AD have since done very very little to market itself to and pursue.

So overall, it's a very basic tale of supply and demand, and of a supplier that's done a really crappy job of recognizing important changes impacting its market share, and very much squandering a positive demand scenario it had probably done very little to cultivate in the first place. It's been about 50 years since UNH Hockey played home games outdoors, and the two great moves from UNH since then to benefit its product was first to build Snively, and then roughly 30 years later to build The Whitt - the latter of which was a huge gamble that paid off handsomely, and arguably dragged the school and the rest of its campus into the modern era. Another smart move in the old days was to put their home games on free TV statewide (usually NHPTV, but also WMUR and WBIN at times) to increase the program's visibility.

That's been about it. Otherwise, it's been incumbent upon Coach Holt - and more recently Coach Umile - to put an entertaining and winning product on the ice. And that's been an increasingly challenging issue in recent seasons for Coach Umile. But he shouldn't have to do this alone, and BS35+4's having been basically "asleep at the switch" while his Hockey fanbase was allowed to steadily erode in the direction of Manchester has been the chief culprit. JMHO.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Thanks Chuck for the explanation of what/ where / and how we are where we are at the 'Whitt. Of course right now (and I haven't been there this season, yet..) the Monarchs I doubt are grabbing a ton of fans with their ECHL product as opposed to the AHL product that was there. I know a season tix holder tho there who loves whatever is on the ice so there's that, and then another (who gets me free tix) who would give anything to see the AHL back in town as the numbers are (and I hate to use this term) 'deplorable' . I cannot even begin to speak for veteran STH's as we've only been in this game for 3 complete seasons but at least this year a few 'perks' were offered mainly in the way of getting in earlier, discounts at the concession stands, and a few other things (don't have the list in front of me). Not that these are game changers but it's a start I suppose...

It's all about the product on the ice...that fills the seats in any venue, no? Glad there are the faithful that do show up game in and game out. I remember when we first started going I talked to an usher who said he'd been working there since the start of the 'Whitt and of course, has seen the good, the bad and the ugly. I asked him why he continued to do the gig and he said "well, no matter how bad UNH is, at least you get to see the good teams like BC play" Sigh. Which of course fills seats when a big team is in town but this season, those will be far and few in between with our schedule (HE teams not included).

Besides teams out in NoDak land where hockey is king, I wonder how many other venues are filled to capacity every weekend? (including the Conte out here...have to say when we've gone to UVM the Gutt is usually pretty packed but not sure of their capacity)...Will those 'heady days' return to UNH? One can only hope but I know where I'll be this weekend...

 

[CollegeHockeyRinkReport]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

A little more insight into the hot start by Patrick Grasso:

http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/201...-career-dick-umile-des-moines-buccaneers-ushl

 

[Dan]

And in retrospect, I've found it highly ironic that when our beloved AD cracked down on the long-standing crowd chants for not being of the PC "family friendly" variety AND began to have editorial control over the playlist - not to mention having the band playing over the crowd chants at the opposing starting line-up - it all hinted at overprotecting a "family" market at The Whitt that the program and its AD have since done very very little to market itself to and pursue.

I only have one thing to say to Marty, the administration and the marketing team for what they've done to kill the atmosphere inside the Whitt, stall any excitement or momentum around UNH hockey and their complete failure to create any successful promotional activity of the program...

*clap* you suck

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

I do not think it just the Whitt that has seen attendance drop over the past decade. The alum fan bases are getting older, but also important is that students on most campuses have lost interest over the past decade, hence the alum fan bases are decreasing from both ends. If you do a search, you can find Sean Pickett's USCHO attendance data, but I think that these numbers are based on tickets sold (ex., corporate tax write-offs for tickets that do not get used), rather than bodies in the seats.

Here are the USCHO attendance data for HEA home rinks this past weekend; many of these would have been sell outs a decade ago, but now many are less than half capacity.

Th, 27 Oct, Compton (NICC) 2936 (UConn)
Fri, 28 Oct, Mullin 2465 (UNH), Compton 4065 (UConn), Conte 5019 (PC), Gutt 4007 (Mich)
Sat, 29 Oct, Mullin 3016 (BC), Whitt 3502 (Mac, but there is no way that there were more than 2500 in attendance)
Sun, 30 Oct, Matthews 1568 (UVM)

 

[Dan]

I do not think it just the Whitt that has seen attendance drop over the past decade. The alum fan bases are getting older, but also important is that students on most campuses have lost interest over the past decade, hence the alum fan bases are decreasing from both ends. If you do a search, you can find Sean Pickett's USCHO attendance data, but I think that these numbers are based on tickets sold (ex., corporate tax write-offs for tickets that do not get used), rather than bodies in the seats.

Here are the USCHO attendance data for HEA home rinks this past weekend; many of these would have been sell outs a decade ago, but now many are less than half capacity.

Th, 27 Oct, Compton (NICC) 2936 (UConn)
Fri, 28 Oct, Mullin 2465 (UNH), Compton 4065 (UConn), Conte 5019 (PC), Gutt 4007 (Mich)
Sat, 29 Oct, Mullin 3016 (BC), Whitt 3502 (Mac, but there is no way that there were more than 2500 in attendance)
Sun, 30 Oct, Matthews 1568 (UVM)

I agree that numbers are down around NCAA hockey - Minnesota fans have complained loudly recently about lack of attendance. Denver doesn't draw well at all!

But, none of the games or venues listed above have ever drawn consistently except UNH and UVM. Notre Dame hockey is an after thought out there and they've never drawn.

Regardless, what other schools don't draw is irrelevant to my feelings on this issue. In terms of atmosphere, The Whitt used to be on par with Yost, Lynah and that racist, nazi monument out in ND.

That atmosphere has been completely killed after many miscalculations and mistakes by the athletic department. They need to make many changes and concessions ASAP in an effort to improve the environment.

Additionally, the fans who do go should get off their asses and actually wave their fingers after goals (when I went last year I was astonished at the near extinction of this tradition), actually where white when your asked to and chant U-N-H once in a while (a chant that used to echo around the building every couple minutes is now rarely heard - also RIP beat em, smash em). The fan involvement or commitment is so far removed from its hey day.

I remember vividly a Whittemore Center so loud it willed the team to goals and victories consistently. If a recruit came to a game in that environment they often commited on the spot - imagine the different perception a recruit would get today. It's a huge problem...

 

[HockeyRef]

A little more insight into the hot start by Patrick Grasso:

http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/201...-career-dick-umile-des-moines-buccaneers-ushl

Nice to read some positive outside press for UNH hockey...

 

[Nifty16]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

A few thoughts from a season ticket holder of 15+ years, have lost track now.

There is major misses by the administration. First keep changing the system they use and confusing people. I have a friend who wanted to get season tickets this season, they had them before and didn’t get them last year as they knew they would miss a lot of games. Went to do it this year and could never get what they want as they were told seats they wanted were not available, looking for end seats near center ice which are empty every game. They have emails, called and even talked to them in person and keep getting the run around. So they have been buying tickets as they go. They tried to get seats where I sit in 110, but those ends are always “not available” which is bogus as I usually get rows to myself. Need to open those up more as they are cheaper and gets more families in.

The student involvement has been down. I really can’t give reasons, does the Admin do anything to promote it on campus or is it just no one cares? But do believe that is something that should be addressed. The lack of student enthusiasm does spill over to the rest of the crowd. I will admit it does affect me, if they are in to and loud it gets me into it.

Then there is pricing. I have not seen any deals this year to get people in. As a season ticket holder I know those don’t help me, but if it gets people in the doors I don’t have a problem with it. My season tickets in my end are reasonably priced, after many years of not being. So lets get more people in the door.

I know everything that has been addressed before but my 2 cents.

 

[HockeyRef]

I agree that numbers are down around NCAA hockey - Minnesota fans have complained loudly recently about lack of attendance. Denver doesn't draw well at all!

But, none of the games or venues listed above have ever drawn consistently except UNH and UVM. Notre Dame hockey is an after thought out there and they've never drawn.

Regardless, what other schools don't draw is irrelevant to my feelings on this issue. In terms of atmosphere, The Whitt used to be on par with Yost, Lynah and that racist, nazi monument out in ND.

That atmosphere has been completely killed after many miscalculations and mistakes by the athletic department. They need to make many changes and concessions ASAP in an effort to improve the environment.

Additionally, the fans who do go should get off their asses and actually wave their fingers after goals (when I went last year I was astonished at the near extinction of this tradition), actually where white when your asked to and chant U-N-H once in a while (a chant that used to echo around the building every couple minutes is now rarely heard - also RIP beat em, smash em). The fan involvement or commitment is so far removed from its hey day.

I remember vividly a Whittemore Center so loud it willed the team to goals and victories consistently. If a recruit came to a game in that environment they often commited on the spot - imagine the different perception a recruit would get today. It's a huge problem...

We still do the finger wave after goals...not everyone in the arena but it is still a fixture along with the sieve cheer....We sit with a group of former students who do what they can to keep the few cheers that are done along with the 'Cat Pack who try to lead the student section. Its definitely a fairly contained thing and not "arena wide" but looking around the other night I did notice people doing the "wave". The Center ice gang is fairly subdued Of course it's not like it used to be but then again neither is the level of hockey that's being offered at the present time. UNH is a footbal school now...I mean isn't it obvious? Just echoing what I read around these parts.

I guess if one wants raucous and rowdy head over the Conte...it never stops!! (And I'm not saying that's a bad thing either)

 

[Greg Ambrose]

I think that Snively's seating capacity was 3500 for hockey, expanded to 4500 for a Phish concert in 1994 before conversion. But, the Quonset-hut style played much louder than nearly double the capacity at the Whitt. I doubt that there were more than 2500 bodies in seats at the Mac game on Saturday night, so that pretty much is what Chuck suggests. However, I think that the lack of attendance is not simply alums dying off or bailing on a lousy product on the ice, but also much less interest by students in evening activities beyond their dorm rooms. From when the Whitt opened in 1995 through the glory years in the early 2000's, students filled both ends of the arena, close to 2000 seats. In contrast, on Saturday night there were probably fewer than 300 students, including the band. Yet, without them, the place would be as quiet as a morgue.

I know it was a typo but Snively 65 knows that Snively opened in February 1965. My long time theory surrounding the mania at Snively during the early days, through the early 80's really, was the lack of alternative entertainment in Durham back then. Fewer kids had cars back then, there was no internet, there were no cell phones, in fact there was no cable TV. You could enjoy yourself, especially on the weekends, but for a lot,of students, weekend nights got,off to a rousing start with a visit to Lively Snively.

 

[After the Whistle]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

I know it was a typo but Snively 65 knows that Snively opened in February 1965. My long time theory surrounding the mania at Snively during the early days, through the early 80's really, was the lack of alternative entertainment in Durham back then. Fewer kids had cars back then, there was no internet, there were no cell phones, in fact there was no cable TV. You could enjoy yourself, especially on the weekends, but for a lot,of students, weekend nights got,off to a rousing start with a visit to Lively Snively.

Totally agree with this assessment. The student section has been down all season. It was actually very solid last year and loud, so I'm not sure what has diminished the attendance so far.
Snivley was just a totally different venue. What really got the crowd going was the ability to just SIT and stamp their feet and make the building rattle. it was so easy to make an incredible racket and the rest can then just come naturally. As others have noted, the old crowd now attending just can't raise the rafters at the Whitt. The crowd estimates are reasonably accurate with the MC game being an embarrassment. I am always surprised in how long it does take to fill the seats with the final crowd. Yes it is more difficult to get there on Friday but I look up from ice level at about 10 minutes before the start and can not believe how few are in there seats. At about 7:20 you kind of have the crowd you will have.
Bottom line, the promotions of the live game is what stinks. The channel 11 games of old where good because it was often the only way to see a game. But now between Bin and NESN you can see a lot of games, streaming is big and now you can stream for free. With all of these alternatives available, it is clear to me why we are not getting the casual fan to race home, put on their winter clothes and head out.
Headlines in the sports pages are not worded in ways that get a lukewarm audience in the building.

 

[wildcatdc]

We still do the finger wave after goals...not everyone in the arena but it is still a fixture along with the sieve cheer....We sit with a group of former students who do what they can to keep the few cheers that are done along with the 'Cat Pack who try to lead the student section. Its definitely a fairly contained thing and not "arena wide" but looking around the other night I did notice people doing the "wave". The Center ice gang is fairly subdued Of course it's not like it used to be but then again neither is the level of hockey that's being offered at the present time. UNH is a footbal school now...I mean isn't it obvious? Just echoing what I read around these parts.

I guess if one wants raucous and rowdy head over the Conte...it never stops!! (And I'm not saying that's a bad thing either)

Finger wave, you su&k chant, siddown bit&h chant, orgy chant, ExLax chant, Unnnnhhhh chant, etc., still happening. Without band interference. But also without much participation from the non-students, save for those of us willing to look a little foolish. I do hold back on the language if surrounded by little kids - that's not too much to ask.

With regards to attendance - I had a little,time on my hands and did a quick correlation analysis on attendance since 2001, and the corresponding win percentages. Correlation of .73. More interestingly, even stronger correlation to the PREVIOUS year's win percentage, at .76.

To paraphrase a slick politician... In the end, it's the PRODUCT, stupid. You can see the steady decline over the years, with a more pronounced drop-off in the last few years. As the product has suffered.