UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

[FiveHole12]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

BC has enough talent Five Hole. They do not need to goon up against UNH's first line throughout the game and particularly at the end of the game. It must be tough to be dealt a royal flush and not win all the time so you have to beat up the 2 players who would have been recruited by BC if your staff looked beyond the top 6 ranked kids every year. BC should get back to up and down hockey.

Like I said... I didn't see any of the gooning you speak of. I saw a hockey game... chit happens. I did see BC players booted out of the face off dot about 70% of the time. What's up with that? Funny thing was, they caught on and started sending a winger in for the initial puck drop. When he got booted, our center took the draw. BC not only more talented... smarter too!

As for your 'end of game' gooning it up?... LOL. Do you have a clue? UNH fans should have been ecstatic about the stupidity of that play by our D man. That gave UNH a 6 on 4 advantage to try and tie it up. Didn't see what your guy did to our guy to draw that type of hit, but must have been pretty bad as the retaliation was not soft. Stupid, but if you're going to stupid, might as well make the other guy feel it.

Hockey East has a a women's hockey conference. Check it out... no hitting in the women's game. You'll love it.

 

[cfan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Exactly! Umile needs to file a protest with the HEA; the refs tonight were horrendous, and about as one-sided as I have ever seen in a college hockey game. Simply shameful.

What a bunch of crybabies!

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

HE has just gotten more interesting for our 'Cats...making this weekend coming up HUGE....carry on with the BC v UNH mud slinging. Meanwhile, I'm still basking in the glow of beating UML for the first time in what, 2 plus seasons? Well done 'Cats. Well done DT! Now there is major work to do...

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

HE has just gotten more interesting for our 'Cats...

So did this thread

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

So did this thread

Their talkin' about us like dogz over at the UML thread too!! e.cat you coming to UNH this weekend??

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

p.s. let's leave the protests about the officiating alone. poturalski will have to deal with a lot more someday at the next level. might as well learn to cope with it here and now. protests just make us look like wussy crybabies.

Exactly. For all of those fans worried that Poturalski might leave after this season, I guess its not an issue anymore. If he can't handle the physical play in HC, he sure as heck won't at the next level.

As for Kelleher, its laughable to hear the whining about him getting an extra hit here and there. Ever watched his stick work on others? Kind of like what we would have seen from Jordan Masters if he hadn't decommitted.

Nice win last night, still on track to finish between 6th and 8th.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Dan you are mixing and merging the years that overlap is wanting, but I get your point. Most you list played together for 1 or 2 years. Canadian kids mostly get 4 year scholarships, many of the others who were defensemen and played lesser roles. Danny Dries only played two years for UNH. Scoring in all of college hockey was much higher during that period. You would have very few who would site Craig Switzer as a top defensemen. Brad Flaishans was on a two year scholarship total as he received a Presidential Scholarship as did several others during that period. I cannot be sure we have any on our current team. If you line up years, they still had 18 scholarships. Drop them all by 20-25% due to decrease in goal scoring over the past 8-10 years and yes we are lacking. Our problems since 2008 has been admissions, defense and having less than 6 outstanding forwards (One line seems to score the great majority of goals).

My point is simply that all of those players were on the same team together, totaling 18 athletic scholarships. UNH used to have consistently deep rosters, where the 3rd and 4th lines were top-six forwards in training. Paul Thompson scored 21 points in his first two seasons combined, because he was playing behind the guys I mentioned. I don't buy 20-25% scoring decreases for those players in today's game. Certainly, their scoring would decrease a bit, but they were GREAT college hockey players on GREAT college hockey teams. Drop their scoring 25% and they look like this year's group. This year's group is not GREAT.

Those UNH teams I mentioned would skate circles around this year's team. Craig Switzer would be, at worst, the #2 defenseman on this year's team. Those UNH team's would be competing for the HE championship, a first round bye and a favorable seed in the 2016 NCAA tournament.

There are zero seniors with anything close to the ability to score 100 points. There is only one with more than 35 career points and he has scored half of his goals and a third of his points because he is lucky enough to play with two of the most talented offensive players to ever come through UNH. There is one junior with that ability and just one sophomore has shown that promise. As I mentioned above, talented UNH underclassmen used to take a back seat to uber-talented UNH upperclassmen. Today, they just take a back seat...

I agree, recruiting issues with academics, competition, etc., have been the problem, but who's fault is that? Academic aid rules remain the same - you have to earn them legitimately. If BC and BU have larger scholarship pools and recruit players who can earn this aid, tough break. If Providence and Connecticut are more lenient on admitting athletes, tough break. These imbalances have always existed and UNH never suffered before. Target kids who can earn the aid and who can get through admissions. Make sure that the 16 year-olds you target take the classes they need to take! Most importantly, target the best kids aggressively and truly believe you can not only land them, but that UNH is a great option for them.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record to some, but the recruiting problems stem from a lack of belief, a lack of attention to detail and a lot of controllable mistakes. Coaches everywhere demand three things from their players - the only three things a player can truly control - attitude, effort and focus. Umile and the UNH recruiters have recently lacked those key controlables, which they were so strong on in the past. Souza and Stewart need to change that mindset ASAP, its UNH's only hope for a turnaround...

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Their talkin' about us like dogz over at the UML thread too!! e.cat you coming to UNH this weekend??

I have a wedding to attend Saturday down in Newport, R.I. but hope to get there Friday. The games with UVM are always circled on my calendar since I attended UNH. Don't like to miss 'em! See you then hopefully.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

My point is simply that all of those players were on the same team together, totaling 18 athletic scholarships. UNH used to have consistently deep rosters, where the 3rd and 4th lines were top-six forwards in training. Paul Thompson scored 21 points in his first two seasons combined, because he was playing behind the guys I mentioned. I don't buy 20-25% scoring decreases for those players in today's game. Certainly, their scoring would decrease a bit, but they were GREAT college hockey players on GREAT college hockey teams. Drop their scoring 25% and they look like this year's group. This year's group is not GREAT.

Those UNH teams I mentioned would skate circles around this year's team. Craig Switzer would be, at worst, the #2 defenseman on this year's team. Those UNH team's would be competing for the HE championship, a first round bye and a favorable seed in the 2016 NCAA tournament.

There are zero seniors with anything close to the ability to score 100 points. There is only one with more than 35 career points and he has scored half of his goals and a third of his points because he is lucky enough to play with two of the most talented offensive players to ever come through UNH. There is one junior with that ability and just one sophomore has shown that promise. As I mentioned above, talented UNH underclassmen used to take a back seat to uber-talented UNH upperclassmen. Today, they just take a back seat...

I agree, recruiting issues with academics, competition, etc., have been the problem, but who's fault is that? Academic aid rules remain the same - you have to earn them legitimately. If BC and BU have larger scholarship pools and recruit players who can earn this aid, tough break. If Providence and Connecticut are more lenient on admitting athletes, tough break. These imbalances have always existed and UNH never suffered before. Target kids who can earn the aid and who can get through admissions. Make sure that the 16 year-olds you target take the classes they need to take! Most importantly, target the best kids aggressively and truly believe you can not only land them, but that UNH is a great option for them.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record to some, but the recruiting problems stem from a lack of belief, a lack of attention to detail and a lot of controllable mistakes. Coaches everywhere demand three things from their players - the only three things a player can truly control - attitude, effort and focus. Umile and the UNH recruiters have recently lacked those key controlables, which they were so strong on in the past. Souza and Stewart need to change that mindset ASAP, its UNH's only hope for a turnaround...

Couldn't agree more with what you say Dan. Up until the last 5 or 6 years ago, UNH always had players who, for one reason or another, had to wait to their senior year to reach their full potential. Paul Thompson and Bobby Butler are prime examples of this. I think in a way the coaching staff, and particularly Umile, got lazy on this point. That somehow the senior class would find a way to have an impact, ignoring the fact that past failure should not be an indicator of future success. What's happened in recent years is twofold, there has been not enough talent to create depth among any of the classes and, because of this, it has become obvious that there is little chance that any one or two players could have breakout senior years like Thompson and Butler did. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that, from what I've seen, Vela, Nazarian and perhaps Eiserman do provide optimism for the future. But, you tell me, is there anything in the incoming class that is going to be the equal of the three I've named? As to your last point I would add that the head coach has to add one more controllable, demanding his assistants only settle for the best, not settle for a roster of mediocrity.

One last thing. I was at the game last night. Except for the scrum at the final buzzer I saw little in the way that would warrant some of the invective thrown out by some of the posters here. It was just a college hockey game. Lowell got chippy at the end because they outshot UNH by a 3-1 margin but were about to lose to a team ranked around 40th in the Pairwise. UNH played about as good as they can play defensively, Tirone had what I call a "good Tirone" game, and they buried their opportunities. Good for them. But, please, don't get all giddy. This is a highly flawed team whose ceiling is getting into the quarterfinal round of the league playoffs.

 

[Split-N]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Exactly! Umile needs to file a protest with the HEA; the refs tonight were horrendous, and about as one-sided as I have ever seen in a college hockey game. Simply shameful.

This post goes beyond ludicrous. Admittedly, I didn't see the game but to suggest that a HEA officials, who regularly get criticized for overcalling games, put their whistles in their pockets for this one just doesn't pass the "make sense" test. Especially when the two referees were Kevin Shea and Tom Fyrer, both of whom are known for "heavy whistles." And BTW, the Briganti twins were linesmen.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Hey Greg I hear you about getting all giddy over the win last night and you are probably right about your HE prediction but after the way this season has gone it's still nice to beat a team we haven't won against in gulp 7 tries?!? I was at that regional in '13 when we lost 2-0 so I remember that one well. It started my UNH fandom and we take wins where and how we can get em esp this season. Anyway puck luck hasn't exactly been in our favor either so I'll take it for now! Even I understand that if we get past the qtr finals it will be an over achievement...

I know our capabilities too and am grateful we pulled it out. 2 pts is 2 pts in my book no matter how you grab 'em...Apparently according to the UML board they really needed those 2 pts. For a change UNH was on the receiving end!! And I'd say for Tirone, he's been playing quite well I think over 40 saves speaks for itself...

Obviously given the stats of the game no way we should've won it but whatever we did and move on to a big weekend with those other 'Cats...��

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Can't let this go without commenting! Chuck is the Glen Ordway of the board. He can mock, ridicule and humiliate with the best Philadelphia lawyers. He is a a loud mouthed know-it-all, the one you love to hate! Just ask him!

Thanks ... I think?

Oh and BTW to some of the posters who were kvetching about the officiating ... you were warned.

Now look at what you've done ...

 

[Dan]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that, from what I've seen, Vela, Nazarian and perhaps Eiserman do provide optimism for the future. But, you tell me, is there anything in the incoming class that is going to be the equal of the three I've named?

Greg, I do think Fregona and Blackburn have the potential to reach that level of play. If they can contribute right away - and are given the opportunity to contribute right away - and Eiserman, Vela, Nazarian and McNicholas take the steps forward I think they're capable of the offense should be pretty good next year. Especially if Poturalski and Kelleher have even another gear. So that would hinge the seasons hopes on the improvement of the defense and goaltending...

There is reason to be optimistic for next year, in my opinion. However, there is also a part of me that is very nervous. It's also possible that Eiserman, Vela, McNicholas and Nazarian don't make their jumps until 2017-18 and by that time it's not enough because Potualski and Kelleher are gone...

Either way, UNH has a lot of work to do to fill in behind next years class on offense and defense. If that doesn't happen we better hope next year can be a success because it will be a while until we get another chance at a balanced roster...

 

[bomberhockey]

Couldn't agree more with what you say Dan. Up until the last 5 or 6 years ago, UNH always had players who, for one reason or another, had to wait to their senior year to reach their full potential. Paul Thompson and Bobby Butler are prime examples of this. I think in a way the coaching staff, and particularly Umile, got lazy on this point. That somehow the senior class would find a way to have an impact, ignoring the fact that past failure should not be an indicator of future success. What's happened in recent years is twofold, there has been not enough talent to create depth among any of the classes and, because of this, it has become obvious that there is little chance that any one or two players could have breakout senior years like Thompson and Butler did. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that, from what I've seen, Vela, Nazarian and perhaps Eiserman do provide optimism for the future. But, you tell me, is there anything in the incoming class that is going to be the equal of the three I've named? As to your last point I would add that the head coach has to add one more controllable, demanding his assistants only settle for the best, not settle for a roster of mediocrity.

One last thing. I was at the game last night. Except for the scrum at the final buzzer I saw little in the way that would warrant some of the invective thrown out by some of the posters here. It was just a college hockey game. Lowell got chippy at the end because they outshot UNH by a 3-1 margin but were about to lose to a team ranked around 40th in the Pairwise. UNH played about as good as they can play defensively, Tirone had what I call a "good Tirone" game, and they buried their opportunities. Good for them. But, please, don't get all giddy. This is a highly flawed team whose ceiling is getting into the quarterfinal round of the league playoffs.

I venture to speculate that Thompson and or Butler might be as productive as the '16 class, if they had not made themselves NHL caliber players. Both were not highly recruited players that were going to fill some role at UNH. As Josh Ciocco said "your given a number and an opportunity, what you do with it is up to you". The two made themselves into very valuable players. For whatever reason, injury, lack of motivation, or coaching recently there have been very few that took advantage of the opportunities they were given. That or they were not given adequate opportunities to show what they could be.
I agree there are kids in the program right now that could easily become a Butler or Thompson if they want it and are nurtured in that culture of wanting it.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

I venture to speculate that Thompson and or Butler might be as productive as the '16 class, if they had not made themselves NHL caliber players. Both were not highly recruited players that were going to fill some role at UNH. As Josh Ciocco said "your given a number and an opportunity, what you do with it is up to you". The two made themselves into very valuable players. For whatever reason, injury, lack of motivation, or coaching recently there have been very few that took advantage of the opportunities they were given. That or they were not given adequate opportunities to show what they could be.
I agree there are kids in the program right now that could easily become a Butler or Thompson if they want it and are nurtured in that culture of wanting it.

Sorry, but skill is the critical component that the recent recruits lacked. And its not "coaching" at UNH that hindered them. As I have pointed out ad nauseum, except for two (Poturalski and Goumas [just finished 40th]) UNH's recruits have not finished in the top 40 in USHL scoring the last 7 years. Having Gaudreault (21 USHL goals in two years), Thrush (21 points in only USHL season), Camper (35 points in two years), Silengo (16 points), Borisenok (39 points), Sorkin (33 points); Pavelski (39 points in two years). They were kids who were recruited mostly for two-way play even at the midget level. Go to USHR's write ups, which were reflective of Borek's thinking, and you see little discussion of skill, or it is secondary.
These kids may have been given the opportunity, but they had already established their likely inability to take it before they got to UNH. Blaming "motivation" or "coaching" for that inability is bypassing the biggest issue -- the talent identification process.

UNH Taking a Chance on an Unknown Thurs. 12/15/11

UNH has received a commitment from 6’4”, 215 lb. Bay State Breakers (EJHL) LD Harry Quast for next fall.

Grit Up Front for the Wildcats 9/19/11
Kalinowski Commits to Wildcats

UNH Lands ‘Diamond in the Rough’ 8/24/11
6’2”, 200 lb. New Jersey Hitmen (EJHL) forward Collin MacDonald has committed to the University of New Hampshire for the fall of ’12.

Team Maryland = UNH Pipeline Tues. 4/27/10
6'1", 180 lb. Team Maryland Midget AAA forward Maxim Gaudreault has committed to the University of New Hampshire for the fall of '12 (possibly '11). A left shot who can play either wing or center, Gaudreault is described by his coach, Jason Kersner, as "our most complete player."

A Power Forward for the Wildcats October 29, 2009
Team Maryland Under-18 LW Casey Thrush has committed to UNH for 2012. Thrush, who's 6'1”, 175 lbs. and a 5/5/92 birthdate, is a senior in high school who will play two years of juniors before college. A linemate last year of UNH '10 recruit Nick Sorkin, Thrush is a big power forward and a strong skater. “Casey works extremely hard,” Team Maryland head Jason Kersner says.

UNH Strikes Quickly January 28, 2009
UNH has a commitment for the fall of 2011 from 5’10”, 165 lb. RC Kyle Smith of Team Comcast 16-and-Under. Thus far, Smith, in 24 games this season, has a 30-33-63 line (and just eight minutes in penalties).

“His numbers don’t even begin to tell his story,” says his coach, Jared Beach. “He’s one of those players who does everything right in all three zones. He’s an unbelievable two-way center. He’s great along the wall. If I need a faceoff

These descriptions are all well and good when you are filling in the recruiting class later in the season. But these were early commitments at age 17/18. While Borek did also recruit "skill" guys like Masters, White, Bourque and Poturalski, those were the top end kids we lost, leaving only the "filler."

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

A little late to the party here, but...

I agree, recruiting issues with academics, competition, etc., have been the problem, but who's fault is that? Academic aid rules remain the same - you have to earn them legitimately. If BC and BU have larger scholarship pools and recruit players who can earn this aid, tough break. If Providence and Connecticut are more lenient on admitting athletes, tough break. These imbalances have always existed and UNH never suffered before. Target kids who can earn the aid and who can get through admissions. Make sure that the 16 year-olds you target take the classes they need to take! Most importantly, target the best kids aggressively and truly believe you can not only land them, but that UNH is a great option for them.

^^^^^ This! ^^^^^

I'll start paying closer attention to the Pots and TK abuse, but nothing out of the norm really jumped out at me. Our shot blocking was HUGE. A statistically invalid sampling, but UML's fan base is much younger, far less PC than ours. +1. As always, kudos to their band. Conversing with the UML fan sitting next to me, one's rooting interest clearly influences one's view of a play. UML's inability to recruit top drafted players? Welcome to our world.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

For whatever reason, injury, lack of motivation, or coaching recently there have been very few that took advantage of the opportunities they were given. That or they were not given adequate opportunities to show what they could be.

How about lack of talent?

 

[bakchk20]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

UNH played about as good as they can play defensively, Tirone had what I call a "good Tirone" game, and they buried their opportunities. Good for them. But, please, don't get all giddy. This is a highly flawed team whose ceiling is getting into the quarterfinal round of the league playoffs.

Agreed. Perfect advice that serve as the bell-weather for the balance of this season. Reality.

If you are solely a keen observer, you see this defense as weak. If you are a student of the game, or play the game (or have), you recognize this as a horrendous defense and the teams most brutal flaw. To that point - in the recent 4 game stretch - that UNH has blocked 88 shots v 43, tells me more so that the play of the forwards has improved (defensively), and it is this sacrifice (commitment) that is keeping the team in games, and will be the second most important thing (scoring goals being first most) from here to the aforementioned league quarterfinals.

 

[riverchief1]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

A little late to the party here, but...

^^^^^ This! ^^^^^

I'll start paying closer attention to the Pots and TK abuse, but nothing out of the norm really jumped out at me. Our shot blocking was HUGE. A statistically invalid sampling, but UML's fan base is much younger, far less PC than ours. +1. As always, kudos to their band. Conversing with the UML fan sitting next to me, one's rooting interest clearly influences one's view of a play. UML's inability to recruit top drafted players? Welcome to our world.

Take in a game out at the Mullins Center in Amherst if you want to see a far less PC group of fans. Absolutely the worst in HE, maybe in DI. Will never go to a game there again, first and last was probably 15 years ago.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Take in a game out at the Mullins Center in Amherst if you want to see a far less PC group of fans. Absolutely the worst in HE, maybe in DI. Will never go to a game there again, first and last was probably 15 years ago.

He'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Darius was complimenting you folks for your non-PC tendencies.

Or he was complimenting you folks for being younger? Not sure, but +1 is usually a good thing.