UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Ok so if the word 'great' is too much, what about 'skilled'? Sometimes I wonder if you guys tend to compare players to the past; didn't think Ty Conklin necessarily but I do think there's talent between the pipes! Most teams are lucky to have a decent back up let alone 2. Let me have my fun through my blue colored glasses and pom poms, fergoshsakes!

My pet peeve is overuse of the term "great". My issue - not yours. Continue with tinted glasses, pom poms, etc.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

My pet peeve is overuse of the term "great". My issue - not yours. Continue with tinted glasses, pom poms, etc.[/QUOT

Well actually I don't have blue glasses. And sadly am without my trusty pom pom not sure where it went. Might find it by Saturday. One can only hope. Dying to know who starts in goal tho. The anticipation!

 

[freak]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Okay, while I agree that Clark should be getting more of a shot given how Tirone is playing, can we please end the revisionist history of his level of play last year?

His save percentage was .894 over 21 games with a nearly 3 gaa.

The team went 5-13-2 in his games. While certainly the entire team played worse in the first half, Clark showed last year what he was... A backup thrust into a starting role. Maybe he's worked hard in the offseason and improved, but his resume does not suggest that we should expect him to compete for starter in D1.

 

[HockeyRef]

Okay, while I agree that Clark should be getting more of a shot given how Tirone is playing, can we please end the revisionist history of his level of play last year?

His save percentage was .894 over 21 games with a nearly 3 gaa.

The team went 5-13-2 in his games. While certainly the entire team played worse in the first half, Clark showed last year what he was... A backup thrust into a starting role. Maybe he's worked hard in the offseason and improved, but his resume does not suggest that we should expect him to compete for starter in D1.

Welp you can't deny the stats thought it was absolutely prudent for Coach Umile to start AC v Union...that being said it would not surprise me to see DT start v 'Mack....

Go 'Cats!!

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Okay, while I agree that Clark should be getting more of a shot given how Tirone is playing, can we please end the revisionist history of his level of play last year?

His save percentage was .894 over 21 games with a nearly 3 gaa.

The team went 5-13-2 in his games. While certainly the entire team played worse in the first half, Clark showed last year what he was... A backup thrust into a starting role. Maybe he's worked hard in the offseason and improved, but his resume does not suggest that we should expect him to compete for starter in D1.

I really don't disagree with any of that, to be fair. Even HR would agree that's far from "great".

The immediate problem, however, is that Tirone's play so far this season doesn't even reach Clark's modest levels from last season. It's clear from Coach Umile's comments that he still has long-term confidence in Tirone, and he's the only person with an actual vote in this contest. But sometimes it makes sense to get a slumping or underperforming goalie out of the line of fire for a bit, and I think that's what we saw with Clark against Union. And I'm glad it worked out for that game. The bigger question now is, when AND how well will Tirone bounce back? I do think we'll get an answer at Merrimack this weekend.

And long term, the question remains (at least for me) ... assuming Robinson arrives next season, does Clark happily slide down the bench to emergency goalie status OR does he decide to explore his options elsewhere?

I'm not suggesting an elite D-1 program is eyeing him from afar as a key cog in their short term plans ... but there are plenty of lesser D-1 programs who might have an interest in a guy who has arguably performed adequately as a frosh starter in Hockey East. And Clark might be of a mind where he simply wants to play. It's tough when you get an early taste of high-level competition, play decently, and then find yourself getting put back on the shelf ... left to wonder if given the chance, you could raise your level by continuing to play, etc. Just putting myself in the player's skates for a moment.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Okay, while I agree that Clark should be getting more of a shot given how Tirone is playing, can we please end the revisionist history of his level of play last year?

His save percentage was .894 over 21 games with a nearly 3 gaa.

The team went 5-13-2 in his games. While certainly the entire team played worse in the first half, Clark showed last year what he was... A backup thrust into a starting role. Maybe he's worked hard in the offseason and improved, but his resume does not suggest that we should expect him to compete for starter in D1.

The team defense/performace in front of Clark in the first half last year was not just worse, but absolutely terrible (in Tirone's defense, they certainly haven't been good through five games this season). No one is saying Clark is the second coming of Ty Conklin, or even Sean Matile, but he deserved much better than his numbers indicated last year. He's probably closer to a 2.5/.905-.910 type of goaltender. Average, but with the way Tirone is playing RIGHT NOW, he absolutely deserves a fair shot and is probably the better bet for this weekend...

It sounds like Tirone will instead get the start. I have no doubt that Tirone will find his form at some point, but I do think with his style of play he is going to be much more inconsistent in his performances than a big, fundamental goalie like Clark.

Watching Digirolamo put up a .923 save percentage in 2010-11 was thrilling - he made so many big, acrobatic saves - but watching him get shelled high and consistently caught out of position in 2011-12, not so much...

 

[freak]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

AGAIN, I'm NOT saying that he shouldn't get time given how Tirone is playing, if only to give the skaters a kick in the @rse.

I'm more taking issue with the comments arguing that Clark should get time, because of what he showed last year. The description varies (not exact quotes)... Didn't puke down his shirt; acquitted himself well; etc. IMO the reality is that he was below average last year, even given the play in front of him. Nobody imagines that he was brought in to be the starter. I think he's fine in spot play, particularly if the other goalie is struggling, but the more he plays he'll get exposed.

Right now, Tirone isn't earning it; give Clark a shot. But let's not fool ourselves as to what his resume suggests he is.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

AGAIN, I'm NOT saying that he shouldn't get time given how Tirone is playing, if only to give the skaters a kick in the @rse.

I'm more taking issue with the comments arguing that Clark should get time, because of what he showed last year. The description varies (not exact quotes)... Didn't puke down his shirt; acquitted himself well; etc. IMO the reality is that he was below average last year, even given the play in front of him. Nobody imagines that he was brought in to be the starter. I think he's fine in spot play, particularly if the other goalie is struggling, but the more he plays he'll get exposed.

Right now, Tirone isn't earning it; give Clark a shot. But let's not fool ourselves as to what his resume suggests he is.

My argument for Clark is based on what I saw from Tirone two weeks ago vs. St. Lawrence and Clarkson and what I saw in the third period vs. UMass a week ago. Yup, he's athletic and he can come out of nowhere and make fabulous saves. But he has two tendencies that go along way toward marginalizing his effectiveness. First, he wanders too much, which leaves him vulnerable to back door plays. Second, he goes down on the ice too much, leaving the defense in front of him to scramble while he gets to his feet. I am a firm believer that the pathway to being a consistently good goalie is to stay on your feet, play the angles, and let your defense handle the puck. This was the template for the goalies who came through the UNH system from Conklin up through DeSmith. Dan's point about DiGirolamo is well taken. His junior year he was a world beater, senior year not so much. My guess is that teams started to figure out his weaknesses and exploited them. Tirone has too many of the same tendencies that it is foolish to ignore then. I'm not saying Clark is any kind of world beater but the fact is that the team played better in front of him on Saturday, vs. a very worthy opponent I might add, than they did in front of Tirone in the three games prior. All that being said, I think Umile will start Tirone tomorrow night, then split them next weekend at MSU.

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

My argument for Clark is based on what I saw from Tirone two weeks ago vs. St. Lawrence and Clarkson and what I saw in the third period vs. UMass a week ago. Yup, he's athletic and he can come out of nowhere and make fabulous saves. But he has two tendencies that go along way toward marginalizing his effectiveness. First, he wanders too much, which leaves him vulnerable to back door plays. Second, he goes down on the ice too much, leaving the defense in front of him to scramble while he gets to his feet. I am a firm believer that the pathway to being a consistently good goalie is to stay on your feet, play the angles, and let your defense handle the puck. This was the template for the goalies who came through the UNH system from Conklin up through DeSmith. Dan's point about DiGirolamo is well taken. His junior year he was a world beater, senior year not so much. My guess is that teams started to figure out his weaknesses and exploited them. Tirone has too many of the same tendencies that it is foolish to ignore then. I'm not saying Clark is any kind of world beater but the fact is that the team played better in front of him on Saturday, vs. a very worthy opponent I might add, than they did in front of Tirone in the three games prior. All that being said, I think Umile will start Tirone tomorrow night, then split them next weekend at MSU.

I would add to this that I have seen Tirone get beat blocker side high too many times. Could it be that he is already figured out?

 

[Aerman]

I would add to this that I have seen Tirone get beat blocker side high too many times. Could it be that he is already figured out?

That goes with the earlier comment that he is on the ice too much. Blocker side high is a VERY difficult save for a shorter goalie in butterfly position.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

I would add to this that I have seen Tirone get beat blocker side high too many times. Could it be that he is already figured out?

well last season teams figured out AC. Big goalie, gets beat on the "side to side" movement. UNH figured out Jon Gillies too as an example. Every keeper has to have a weakness and good teams know how to / figure out how to exploit it. Isn't that what we are really talking about? Clark is the big, stable goalie, DT, does the Tim Thomas thing. Clark needs to figure out the side to side movement (has to be tougher for a big keeper?) DT, stay at home AND on your feet. Has to be a happy medium. Also helpful if the D is playing well in front of them so guess it's a multi faceted issue.

And oh hey while we are going down that road...and not to say DT doesn't have talent coz I know he does...but could some, some of his success been linked to the fact that as a whole, UNH started playing better in the second half when he arrived? Think about it the top scoring line became established, Pesce was back from being injured, the frosh were adjusting to life in the NCAA's...

Surely he wasn't the entire reason we won 9 straight and made it to the HE qtrs. while recognizing the fact that he did play very well and had great (oops) numbers. I mean, we'll never know coz AC didn't play in a single game after that point. Somewhere Chuck is saying 'bingo'

These are the things that make me go hmmmmmm.....

Been saying all along this season and it's early I know but it's the D and not the A that is our issue kind of like the Bruins. And we looked much better last weekend v Union. (I might add so are my B's...) Let's see what we got against 'Mack! Go 'Cats!!

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

In ice hockey, "butterfly style" is a technique of goaltending distinguished by the goaltender guarding the lower part of the net by dropping to the knees to block attempts to score. The butterfly style derives its name from the resemblance of the spread goal pads and hands to a butterfly's wings. The butterfly style is contrasted with stand-up style, where most shots on a goal are stopped with the goaltender on his or her feet. Many factors helped make it a de facto standard style of play today, including the invention of the goalie mask by Jacques Plante, Vladislav Tretiak's outstanding use of the style at the 1972 Canada–USSR Summit Series, the National Hockey League (NHL) emergence of Tony Esposito in the 1970s and Patrick Roy in the 1980s, the development of lightweight materials for pads and the influence of professional goaltending coaches such as Warren Strelow, Benoit and François Allaire. There are few who exclusively employ a stand-up style in the NHL.

Although it is effective and popular among goaltenders, the butterfly style can leave the upper portion of the net more vulnerable to scoring attempts. The modern "profly" derivative was made most popular by Roy and is the style most commonly used and taught.

From Wikipedia. it must be true. Point being, DT ain't changing. Maybe improving, but not changing.

 

[UNHJourney34]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Clark's side to side movement is so slow. I can't count how many times last season opposing forwards took the puck behind the net and just faked back and forth before scoring an easy goal. Clark is a big goalie, which makes it easier for him to make that first save. Which is great if you have solid defense around you to clear out any rebounds. But last season they didn't, and the jury is still out on this season. The reason why Tirone "saved" the season last year is because of his ability to make that 2nd and 3rd save. When a goalie is playing with confidence and has the reaction speed that Tirone does he is able to make not only the first save but bail out his defensemen for their bad positioning. Where a big, slower goalie can only look good if his defensemen are in their proper position allowing him to focus solely on the shot and not worry so much about the aftermath.

On a good defensive team Clark could put up good numbers and win games. But frankly this team has not proven that they can play shut down defense. So put me down in the run with Tirone camp. I believe that all he needs is a good game to get out of his own head and get some confidence back and those easy goals we've seen these first couple weeks will disappear.

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

That goes with the earlier comment that he is on the ice too much. Blocker side high is a VERY difficult save for a shorter goalie in butterfly position.

That's true Aerman! Hope DT returns to form soon though.

well last season teams figured out AC. Big goalie, gets beat on the "side to side" movement. UNH figured out Jon Gillies too as an example. Every keeper has to have a weakness and good teams know how to / figure out how to exploit it. Isn't that what we are really talking about? Clark is the big, stable goalie, DT, does the Tim Thomas thing. Clark needs to figure out the side to side movement (has to be tougher for a big keeper?) DT, stay at home AND on your feet. Has to be a happy medium. Also helpful if the D is playing well in front of them so guess it's a multi faceted issue.

And oh hey while we are going down that road...and not to say DT doesn't have talent coz I know he does...but could some, some of his success been linked to the fact that as a whole, UNH started playing better in the second half when he arrived? Think about it the top scoring line became established, Pesce was back from being injured, the frosh were adjusting to life in the NCAA's...

Surely he wasn't the entire reason we won 9 straight and made it to the HE qtrs. while recognizing the fact that he did play very well and had great (oops) numbers. I mean, we'll never know coz AC didn't play in a single game after that point. Somewhere Chuck is saying 'bingo'

These are the things that make me go hmmmmmm.....

Been saying all along this season and it's early I know but it's the D and not the A that is our issue kind of like the Bruins. And we looked much better last weekend v Union. (I might add so are my B's...) Let's see what we got against 'Mack! Go 'Cats!!

Mc will be a big test for sure in their barn. It would be great if DT does get the start and a W his confidence could be restored.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Clark's side to side movement is so slow. I can't count how many times last season opposing forwards took the puck behind the net and just faked back and forth before scoring an easy goal. Clark is a big goalie, which makes it easier for him to make that first save. Which is great if you have solid defense around you to clear out any rebounds. But last season they didn't, and the jury is still out on this season. The reason why Tirone "saved" the season last year is because of his ability to make that 2nd and 3rd save. When a goalie is playing with confidence and has the reaction speed that Tirone does he is able to make not only the first save but bail out his defensemen for their bad positioning. Where a big, slower goalie can only look good if his defensemen are in their proper position allowing him to focus solely on the shot and not worry so much about the aftermath.

On a good defensive team Clark could put up good numbers and win games. But frankly this team has not proven that they can play shut down defense. So put me down in the run with Tirone camp. I believe that all he needs is a good game to get out of his own head and get some confidence back and those easy goals we've seen these first couple weeks will disappear.

Excellent perspective on the goal keeping differences; they do make sense! Agree that DT needs to get his 'game back'. Bet he gets that chance Saturday...Different styles of play to be sure. Traditional v Unorthodox. Just get the job done.

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

If DT gets the start at Mc and wins or plays well enough to keep it close I'll be back on board with him. Hopefully that happens.

Edit: No pressure!

 

[Ned Braden]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

According to Bob McKenzie, Foegele has left school, headed to the OHL.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

If DT gets the start at Mc and wins or plays well enough to keep it close I'll be back on board with him. Hopefully that happens.

Edit: No pressure!

Well that's it isn't it? He has to play well to give UNH a chance to win. Umile saw what he could do last year and, obviously (one of Umile's favorite words btw), is hoping for the same this year. So far it hasn't happened. I just don't want a repeat of happened in DiGirolamo's last year when Umile hung on and hung on waiting for the kid to snap out of it and play like he did as a junior and, but the time it was obvious that he wasn't going to, the season was lost. Let's face it, UNH is not in a good position here. Neither goalie is top notch and the defense is inexperienced and/or incapable. I've said it before but this is where the program really misses Lassonde.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

According to Bob McKenzie, Foegele has left school, headed to the OHL.

One assist through five games this year. My recollection is that he was not playing special teams either. Drafted kid, feels he is not developing, time to move on I guess. Good luck to him.

Watcher, how does this effect UNH's standing with other higher level recruits? Not well I would imagine.

 

[HockeyRef]

According to Bob McKenzie, Foegele has left school, headed to the OHL.

Wow just read it via Twitter/Jeff Cox:

http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/hoc...ele-leaving-unh-for-ohl-kingston-bob-mckenzie

and that he's expected to sign with Kingston:

http://cardiaccane.com/2015/10/30/c...nh-expected-to-sign-with-kingston-frontenacs/