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UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

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Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Q for you Watcher... When you mention Quinn as a top recruiter are you saying as in Eichel? I've heard Parker was responsible for that get...no biggie just curious. Thinking UNH is on the right road recruitment wise time will tell. As per goals the UNH mantra (as told by Coach U at a recent gathering we were at) remain the same as always and that is to "win the HE and NC". Sound goals to have!
 
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Not sex appeal. It's the belief that you are important and can play a role in achieving a goal, and that there is progress toward that goal that makes the goal seem attainable.

Umile had that from 90 to 2003. It creates it's own momentum. Once that is lost it is hard to sell, particularly when you see the window closing. (Aka the Parker ending). Of course, a dynamic recruiter can counter that stagnation, as Quinn did, but you also see what happens when the HC is happy just to have his old buddies on the bench with him (Parker/Powers).

There is no dynamic team locking up the big four, other than Quinn (who has surpassed York in talent procuremen), and the venerable York and whoever succeeds him. Providence made a run and will be near the top 4, and Notre dame will get top Chicago kids.

I don't worry about Vermont or Uconn taking a spot, and Lowell has good coaching with little talent which is not a recipe for being a consistent top 4.

UNH has a 40 year track record of being a choice for the occasional top mass kid, and for top BCHL kids. The only dips were when the coaches got old, but an energetic new coach quickly fixed that.

Unless UNH goes the "steady" route with their next choice they should do well.

The days of having a big four have come and gone. Even with the talent Quinn has recruited how many will show up and how long will they stay? BU wouldn't be an NCAA team this year without Eichel. BC has nowhere close to the talent they had four or five years ago.

On the flip side there aren't really any bad programs in hockey east. UMA would be the only genuine candidate but a lot of that has to do with their coaching transition.

I think you will see more parity before there is less. Teams like Merrimack and Northeastern this year will probably be the new normal. Unless there is some drastic change I'd be surprised if college hockey has the excitement of the big time programs like it had 10 or 20 years ago but I will certainly still be watching.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Not Eichel, but his time as an assistant (04-09) led to the talent for Parker's last championship, and if you see who he's lined up for BU as HC, it is the best in college hockey.
(By the way, hiring a 37 year old assistant, what a concept. Not to mention McCloskey was 38 when hired at UNH.)

I wouldn't say UNH is on the right track, as there are entrenched issues that make a "wow" recruiting class unlikely (anytime your braintrust's stories go back to the good old days in 1985 for Providence College, more than a decade before your recruits were born, you have issues). However, not to beat a dead horse, but UNH has facilities, fans, a suburban Boston geographic location, academics and a great campus that are a step ahead of a lot of schools. Add a 40-45 year old head coach and a 30-35 year old assistant with connectons, and they are well poised to "sell" the next generation. It's a build in story line to sell.
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Not Eichel, but his time as an assistant (04-09) led to the talent for Parker's last championship, and if you see who is lined up for BU, it is the best in college hockey.
(By the way, a 37 year old assistant, what a concept)

I wouldn't say UNH is on the right track, as there are entrenched issues that make a "wow" recruiting class unlikely (anytime your braintrust's stories go back to the good old days in 1985 for Providence College, more than a decade before your recruits were born, you have issues). However, not to beat a dead horse, but UNH has facilities, fans, a suburban Boston geographic location, academics and a great campus that are a step ahead of a lot of schools. Add a 40-45 year old head coach and a 30-35 year old assistant with connectons, and they are well poised to "sell" the next generation. It's a build in story line to sell.

An assistant with inherent sex appeal at that! Ok, I'll drop it...:p Thanks for the response. Trying to learn all about the ins and outs of this recruiting stuff. In 4-5 years time when Farabee joins, who knows who will be behind the bench? Hoping he sticks; he looks dynamic at his age...plus, I'll be retired from teaching hopefully by then (wishful thinking).
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Not sex appeal. It's the belief that you are important and can play a role in achieving a goal, and that there is progress toward that goal that makes the goal seem attainable.

Umile had that from 90 to 2003. It creates it's own momentum. Once that is lost it is hard to sell, particularly when you see the window closing. (Aka the Parker ending). Of course, a dynamic recruiter can counter that stagnation, as Quinn did, but you also see what happens when the HC is happy just to have his old buddies on the bench with him (Parker/Powers).

Totally agree. It's all about forward momentum, or at least the perception of forward momentum. And it's exactly why things at UNH have been slowly yet surely slipping away over the last decade. No more forward momentum.

There is no dynamic team locking up the big four, other than Quinn (who has surpassed York in talent procuremen), and the venerable York and whoever succeeds him. Providence made a run and will be near the top 4, and Notre dame will get top Chicago kids.

I don't worry about Vermont or Uconn taking a spot, and Lowell has good coaching with little talent which is not a recipe for being a consistent top 4.

Not sure I agree here though, 'Watcher. Coach Bazin has that "belief towards an attainable goal" going with his UML program, kids are believing, and that creates additional forward momentum ... doesn't that eventually improve the quality of the recruits? And even if he arguably ends up buying his goods off the second shelf - which he's clearly been doing (very successfully) up to this point - who's to say he can't continue to enjoy success in "coaching them up"? There was once this guy up in Orono ... he did a pretty good job in a similar starting point (worse, actually), and while he certainly was *creative* in finding some unique short-cuts that the NCAA eventually closed down, he kept that program at the elite level throughout his lifetime, and arguably almost a decade after his passing (largely due to Standbrook). And that was sans "campus within an hour of Boston" (UNH/UML) - I'll pass on the "attractive" qualifier, too subjective. :D

UNH has a 40 year track record of being a choice for the occasional top mass kid, and for top BCHL kids. The only dips were when the coaches got old, but an energetic new coach quickly fixed that.

Unless UNH goes the "steady" route with their next choice they should do well.

The "energetic new coach" so far has only worked once (Kullen/Umile after Charlie Holt). It's a little early yet to credit Coach Stewart (or anyone else) for "fixing" anything just yet. I want badly to believe that the program will bounce back quickly, and while some may doubt my sincerity, I really am a sappy old sentimentalist at heart, and I'd love nothing more than to see Coach Umile go out on top with the national title. No smiley and no winky for comic intent, I really mean that. But going back to the first part of your post, I just don't see how Coach Umile can recapture the lost momentum for the program. He has to sell a belief to recruits (or hope like heck Coach Stewart can do that on his behalf). For what it's worth, with the recent pub arising out of a 14 yr. old "commitment", you have to believe Coach Stewart has been given certain assurances about his future in Durham (presuming his recruiting bears the expected fruit), or else that's arguably the biggest non-story I've seen associated with UNH recruiting any time in the last few years.

But here are two huge challenges that either Coach Umile or his successor will face to get back to the top of HE:

* How do you get the "blue chippahs" out from under the noses of perennial national power BC, and a rejuvenated BU??
* If you're selling yourself as a place where you can coach up a 2nd or 3rd tier recruit, UMass Lowell now clearly has you beat, and Providence, UVM and Notre Dame are currently the 2nd tier suitors you need to beat out

Hopefully a strong finish to this season will reverse the momentum sooner than I'm expecting. Also, it's reassuring to remind ourselves the competitive dip at UNH hasn't been as severe OR long-lasting as the end of the Holt era, and the gradual rebuilding of the Kullen era. Yet. And with a Football program maintaining momentum across the street, which is now going to be dominating the financial landscape of the AD's offices for the next few seasons, it's not hard to see how this can go badly wrong IF allowed to linger. JMHO.
 
Not sure I agree here though, 'Watcher. Coach Bazin has that "belief towards an attainable goal" going with his UML program, kids are believing, and that creates additional forward momentum ... doesn't that eventually improve the quality of the recruits? And even if he arguably ends up buying his goods off the second shelf - which he's clearly been doing (very successfully) up to this point - who's to say he can't continue to enjoy success in "coaching them up"? There was once this guy up in Orono ... he did a pretty good job in a similar starting point (worse, actually), and while he certainly was *creative* in finding some unique short-cuts that the NCAA eventually closed down, he kept that program at the elite level throughout his lifetime, and arguably almost a decade after his passing (largely due to Standbrook). And that was sans "campus within an hour of Boston" (UNH/UML) - I'll pass on the "attractive" qualifier, too subjective. :D.

Walsh is actually the opposite of Bazin. He built Maine by out recruiting everyone. He was a cult of personality who developed BC connections while building Michigan State for Ron Mason from 79 to 83. (Imagine that, a 28 year old assistant). When he got the after the season he got a couple of BChLers who would have gone to Michigan state, and the first full recruiting year he convinced Jack Capuano to leave his chosen path to Bu, and got lucky that the second best defensive recruit that year was a Maine kid (weinruch) who also spurred BC and Bu. Once you get a couple like that you're a hot shot, and it helps when capuanos brother issue top recruit two years later and Mike Golden flunks out of UNH and you sell him on how he can do well at Maine. Sprinkle in his BC kids who we easterners never heard if but who were national talents (mike Barkley, etc) and Maine's affinity for non-English speaking french kids (robitaille, thyer) and you have the Maine teams from 85 to 95.

The culmination was selling Kariya on passing on Harvard and national champ BU
(Roll eyes)

He later proved his coaching chops when the sanctions cut his recruiting.

He was a one if a kind which means Maine will never be top 4 again

But his model is not unique to him.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Q for you Watcher... When you mention Quinn as a top recruiter are you saying as in Eichel? I've heard Parker was responsible for that get...no biggie just curious. Thinking UNH is on the right road recruitment wise time will tell. As per goals the UNH mantra (as told by Coach U at a recent gathering we were at) remain the same as always and that is to "win the HE and NC". Sound goals to have!

Quinn's big haul in recruiting is coming in next year as freshmen....this year he had GOD (Eichel) and then Fortunano (sp) changed his commitment at the last minute.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

'Cats still up 1-0 after 2....Clark hangs tough in barrage of late 2nd period shots...in the box a lot tonight. So nice to see Pesce out there!

Headed to OT...Let's Go Cat'sssss!
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

'Cats still up 1-0 after 2....Clark hangs tough in barrage of late 2nd period shots...in the box a lot tonight. So nice to see Pesce out there!

Headed to OT...Let's Go Cat'sssss!

Heart-breaking loss; anyone stream live? I only could follow on CHN live box, given limited band width here. In any case, certainly appears that our Cats played very well against a ranked team?
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Rats...tough 2-1 OT loss to a ranked team. Feelings about the game for those who saw it? Felt we did a great job killing all the penalties we had, just not enough offense when it counted. Know Clarky would like that one back... Close calls for both teams looked like both of their goals were wide open need to cover. I will say I liked the sustained effort throughout the game. Hats off and let's see what tomorrow brings.

yes Snively65 did watch the live stream (a decent feed). UNO does a fish throw as well on their first goal. Agree; felt we played very well a tough end. Love to see them come out tomorrow night firing to get a split, this looks possible. Sadly another 1 goal loss (that's 6 now?) and just read the UNO press release about the game and it's their 5th game winning by a goal. Hopefully turn it around tonight! Oh and btw Snively65 what a great fan you are listening in!!!
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Walsh is actually the opposite of Bazin. He built Maine by out recruiting everyone. He was a cult of personality who developed BC connections while building Michigan State for Ron Mason from 79 to 83. (Imagine that, a 28 year old assistant). When he got the after the season he got a couple of BChLers who would have gone to Michigan state, and the first full recruiting year he convinced Jack Capuano to leave his chosen path to Bu, and got lucky that the second best defensive recruit that year was a Maine kid (weinruch) who also spurred BC and Bu. Once you get a couple like that you're a hot shot, and it helps when capuanos brother issue top recruit two years later and Mike Golden flunks out of UNH and you sell him on how he can do well at Maine. Sprinkle in his BC kids who we easterners never heard if but who were national talents (mike Barkley, etc) and Maine's affinity for non-English speaking french kids (robitaille, thyer) and you have the Maine teams from 85 to 95.

The culmination was selling Kariya on passing on Harvard and national champ BU
(Roll eyes)

He later proved his coaching chops when the sanctions cut his recruiting.

He was a one if a kind which means Maine will never be top 4 again

But his model is not unique to him.

Agree that Walsh could sell ice to the Eskimos. However, his success post sanction was due in part to the Swedish-Albany Academy (Jim Salfi) connection. You know the details better than me, but my recollection is that Walsh, as always, found a way to skirt around the less than vigilant NCAA enforcement people. You have to agree that Walshy always skated right up to the line when it came to NCAA rules violations. The great thing about him is that his ego was so big that he felt that he could thumb his nose at the NCAA and just keep going. Mea culpas, if any, only came after he got sick.

The larger point after scrolling through the last few pages of comments is how much the conversation is reminiscent of the Maine thread the last couple of years. Just like them with Whitehead, I just don't see things getting appreciably better in the near future. I know the commits coming the next couple of years are supposed to be pretty good, but even if that is so, it reminds me of the mid-80's when Kullen was able to recruit the likes of Leach, Rossetti and Douris but did not have enough supporting pieces around them. Leach and Douris, of course, left when they saw the pretty grim future. Even if Stewart is able to bring in the equivalent of those three, in a much more competitive recruiting environment, I don't think it is going to be enough if the current regime stays in place.

As you all know, I have been a big defender of Umile over the years. Without his fierce commitment to the blue and white UNH would not have had the success in bringing in the folks they did through around 2004. Yes, McCloskey and Lassonde were good salesmen, but the thing they were selling was the aura of the coach, a graduate of the school, a fiery competitor both on and off the ice. The coach is now 66. As one who has reached that milestone i can tell you that it is very difficult to maintain that edge when competing. You get comfortable doing things the way you always did them because they were successful. Then all of a sudden it seems that there is more competition, new techniques for selling, and more roadblocks put up that prevent you from achieving the success you had in the past. Over the last few years I saw it in my business which I recently sold. My decision was based largely on being tired of the day-to-day bs that I felt was creating obstacles to my goal of continued success.

I can't say that Umile's head is in the same place as mine. Knowing him, I am sure he still feels the passion, still likes coaching and, most importantly, still likes creating the relationships with the kids that are brought in. And on top of all that, he is pretty loyal to his coaches and his players, past and present. Personally I think that is the biggest problem here and has been over the past several years. Even if he wanted to, I think at this point it is too late to reinvent himself. The wheels have already fallen off the wagon and, even if repairs get it moving again, it probably won't be moving fast enough or in the right direction.

As a fan of college sports for a long, long time, I have seen this situation play out several times. I think of guys like Woody Hayes who was forced to resign after he punched a Clemson player during a bowl game. I remember John Chaney, the basketball coach at Temple, who had a couple of meltdowns on the sideline before he realized it was time to call it quits. And in hockey we have Jack Parker, who had to resign because of institutional control issues in the latter years of his tenure. Now, Umile hasn't punched anyone, had a meltdown, or let the inmates run the asylum. But what he has done, almost unknowingly, is created a franchise in recent years that looks tired, unimaginative and lacking any luster. To top it off, hockey is now second banana at UNH to football, with outside resources being wooed to support it rather than hockey. To me it means Umile is on his own and unless he can recapture that fire he had 25 years ago, I don't see any sustained improvement sad to say.
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Danny Tirone gets his first NCAA start today against Nebraska-Omaha.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Walsh is actually the opposite of Bazin. He built Maine by out recruiting everyone. He was a cult of personality who developed BC connections while building Michigan State for Ron Mason from 79 to 83. (Imagine that, a 28 year old assistant). When he got the after the season he got a couple of BChLers who would have gone to Michigan state, and the first full recruiting year he convinced Jack Capuano to leave his chosen path to Bu, and got lucky that the second best defensive recruit that year was a Maine kid (weinruch) who also spurred BC and Bu. Once you get a couple like that you're a hot shot, and it helps when capuanos brother issue top recruit two years later and Mike Golden flunks out of UNH and you sell him on how he can do well at Maine. Sprinkle in his BC kids who we easterners never heard if but who were national talents (mike Barkley, etc) and Maine's affinity for non-English speaking french kids (robitaille, thyer) and you have the Maine teams from 85 to 95.

The culmination was selling Kariya on passing on Harvard and national champ BU
(Roll eyes)

He later proved his coaching chops when the sanctions cut his recruiting.

He was a one if a kind which means Maine will never be top 4 again

But his model is not unique to him.
That never be a top 4 again hurts but wouldn't surprise me

BTW, not nearly enough credit is given to Grant in your explanation but I guess some of that is before Standbrook
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Interesting that UNH won the SOG on Friday and lost the game and lost the SOG tonight but won the game. Go figure!!! Of course UNH was up 4-0 when the shots were 18-14 in favor of UNH but I digress!
 
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